Management ENIC

[Kosher Kid]

That's my belief. Get a coach who brings optimism, sell 40k season tickets and tick over.
It's cheaper to do that every 18 months than to build a competitive squad.
If you recall, we were on the verge of appointing Conte as the deadline for renewal passed in 2021. Almost as soon as it passed, the talks broke down.
Then Nuno came. Then things hit what can only be described as rock bottom for ENIC and Levy.

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Jose and Conte have both been appointed to save Levy's arse.

The hiring of a high profile manager has just kicked the lack of investment can down the road to be faced up to on another day.

That day is getting nearer and nearer.

We will know how close it is by the end of January.

My view is that Conte wants the business done early to give us the best chance in the games we face in January.

Levy will want to play his games up until the deadline to save a few pence.

The supporters are stuck between two mercenaries who both have their own agenda.

 

[spursmalc]

There are a list of things.

1. Seeing the neighbours finally getting their shit together and competing at the top.
2. Seeing Newcastle above us after Howe has had 2 transfer windows and seeing the writing on the wall
3. The realisation that Liverpool and Man Utd have turned a corner and are breathing down our neck.
4. The realisation that we are probably not going to remain in the top 4 clubs for long unless something drastic changes and the owners start showing more ambition. Nobody wants a return to scrapping for a Europa place every season.
5. The realisation that yet another elite manager is feeling betrayed by Levy and will probably jump ship in the summer if not before due to our lack of ambition to actually win the big trophies.
6. Kane and Son rapidly approaching the end of their careers with nothing to show for it and no way for us to replace them with similar quality.
7. The fact that we still have players on the wage bill like Eric fucking Dier in 2022. This is a guy who wasn't good enough for Poch 4 yrs ago and is now our starting CB....

Feels to me like we've blown our chances to win the big trophies and our time in the top 4 is coming to an end, so we become another West Ham for the next 20 yrs until we find lightning in a bottle again.

Unless these owners fuck off and sell us to an owner with real ambition we are fucked.

It might not have dawned on you yet but its the reality of the situation we find ourselves in.

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I was trying to stop posting on this thread but you have responded to 2 of my threads and I will make this my final post on this thread for now as I have other things to do.
1 Totally agree, I find it sickening to look at the league table and it looks like our several years of ending above them is over. I do not watch them other than against us and cannot really understand how it is happening. I did not recall any concerns with their transfer incomings and have been surprised Jesus did so well but he is now injured. Think it is more to do with the Manager who we would not have wanted rather than the owners.
2 Same as above really, did not expect them to do so well. Trippier who we got rid of is not what I would call a major signing.
3 Liverpool are surprisingly behind us and MU are always up there.
4 Not sure why you reach this conclusion as the owner has started to show more ambition. We have seen more money spent, buying before selling, sending players no longer required, Lo Celso, Ndombele & Winks on loan rather than keeping them.
5 Who knows what is happening with the Manager but we had this speculation in the summer. It is reported he has been offered another £1m pa and we do not know the outcome of the January window.

Elsewhere you state 'If we had won a couple of FA / League cups we would stop being the laughing stock.' Well other posters have dismissed those trophies as worthless and only concentrate on PL. I have suggested that Conte and/or future Managers need to be given a big bonus to win a trophy as I agree the piss take from elsewhere is unacceptable. To me this is more important than top 4 this year but I am in the minority with that view. We have had a good enough team to have won in past years and the reasons we have not are much more complex than just blaming the owners.

I am now leaving this thread for now as have other things to do but overall I have confidence that with Lloris, Romero, Bentencur & Richarldison back and a couple of additions in January we are stronger than we were this time last season when we got top 4. If we do not get the additions I will be as unhappy as you about that.

 

[spids]

I remember the Sugar years, but if you want to go back further Spurs were always a big player in the transfer market. So Spurs aren't defined by the Sugar years anymore than they are defined by the ENIC years. We struggled and the original Champions league teams had a headstart but lets not pretend Spurs were always some perennial poor kid. We've always been among the richest clubs in England.

The point is though, ENIC are loaded and could easily propel us to success if they had the ambition to do so. They simply don't. They are happy as long as we are top 4 and they are on the CL gravy train our profile is high, the stadium is full, the gourmet burgers and pints are selling, people are in the club shop and the NFL comes to town semi-regularly. They are selling us a dream. But its all an illusion because there is no weight or ambition behind any of it.

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Well, technically it was Scholar who ruined us financially at the end of the Golden '80's. But we are discussing ENIC. My point was that when they took over we had 1/4 of the revenue of the dominant clubs in the league ... Man U, Liverpool and Woolwich, whilst Chelsea were financially doped. We simply could not compete. Whenever we improved and looked like building something we lost our best player who would want to go and double his wages and play in the CL somewhere else (Campbell, Carrick, Keane, Berbatov, Bale, Modric etc.). What ENIC did was realise we'd only be able to compete consistently if we generated similar revenues, and they have done a great job achieving that. I do think Levy now needs to step aside to let someone more suited to running a big club with a big budget to win things. I'd keep Levy as CFO and let him run the money generating side of commercials now the match day revenue is sorted out.

For example, in 2010 Woolwich and Man U generated £93M and £109M respectively through match-day revenues. Ours was just £20M. The projection for ours now is ~£120M - a 600% increase (Man U's was £110M in 2019 which is a <1% increase).

ENIC / Levy have built the infrastructure to give us consistent income streams without the need to throw hundreds of millions of 'financial doping' money at the club. The annoying thing now is that we have money to spend - we can afford the best players and can compete with the wages of the top clubs (well, not quite Man U, PSG, Newcastle and Man C but pretty much everyone else). And yet Levy still appears to have the handbrake on. We have the stadium, we have the training facilities, we have the manager, we have the talisman (Kane), now we need 2 or 3 more world class players to add to Romero, Perisic, Bentancur, Son, Kulusevski, Richarlison and Kane to go up another level. A RWB, a CB and a CAM would be a start. Not promising talents, but "ready now" players. Just needs us to push the boat out and be ambitious. Seize the moment. To dare is to do.

 

[BROCKVILLE]

We started from a low base, no one can dispute this.

Then Levy (wrongly imo) concentrated on the stadium rather than the team.

Poch refused some good players and Levy backed his choice.
Poch was adamant on signing others and Levy backed his choice.

Poch didn't want a DoF and wanted more say in who was signed, Levy backed his choice.

Our investment has been shocking in the past. Levy should have booted Hitchin out the door, he was useless.

Why can't you see that since the fans have been allowed in the stadium, and Levy's appointment of a DoF our recruitment is miles better ?
Both in money spent (3rd highest in last 2 years) and in quality of players bought .

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I mean, how much better has it been? I give you Bentancur and especially Kulu (best signing of the decade I would suggest). Yves I’m sure will come good. And I will reserve judgement on Richy for now. Beyond those 4, in the past 4/5 years since we started increasing our relative spend, I can’t think of 1 good signing. Yes we have spent but we haven’t spent wisely. We have also gone for cheaper options over and over again. We take a risk at £30M instead of spending £40/£45M on players that will truly improve the squad. It’s total false economy. We still haven’t replaced Rose or Walker properly, but we have signed many players designed to do their jobs and all bar trippier have failed. If we’d just spent a bit more, we’d be in a much better situation.

I cannot forgive the club for letting MoPo down. We had a truly excellent first 11. With proper investment we would have one trophies. And now we are in a situation where Kane is 30 soon, Son is already 30 and the opportunity has passes us by. Both the aforementioned 30 year olds deserve so much better and I won’t hate on them if they force moves in the summer. Kane certainly will.

I envy Woolwich. They are in the situation we were in 6/7 years ago. Forward facing attacking football with a very young squad. Kronke will do the opposite of Levy and they will win things.

The stadium was meant to be a game changer for us and our stature. But nothing has changed. It’s a cash cow. Like any corporation - maximise profits x minimise spend.

 

[Furball man]

I do get your point.

When I first heard "£1m per event" I was like "is that all".

It's why the stadium went massively over budget and was a year late.
Levy should have been penalised for that, not receive a bonus.

I think it works along the lines of ;
Spurs receive a rental fee, and the hospitality revenue.
The artist/agent etc receive the ticket sales.


But it's there now and it can't be disputed that it nearly trebles our match day income.

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I didn’t realize that he gave himself a bonus for failing to complete it on time … fucking legend

Ah well at least we now have a name for the stadium & it’s not to dissimilar to the old one

White Elephant Lane

 

[Honest John]

I'd rather we take a risk in an effort to bring some glory back to this grand old club.

What happened to "to dare is to do?"

I'd rather that then endless seasons of what ENIC are serving up even if that is the stable path.

Football is about romance not cold hard accounting.

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[skywalker68]

I mean, how much better has it been? I give you Bentancur and especially Kulu (best signing of the decade I would suggest). Yves I’m sure will come good. And I will reserve judgement on Richy for now. Beyond those 4, in the past 4/5 years since we started increasing our relative spend, I can’t think of 1 good signing. Yes we have spent but we haven’t spent wisely. We have also gone for cheaper options over and over again. We take a risk at £30M instead of spending £40/£45M on players that will truly improve the squad. It’s total false economy. We still haven’t replaced Rose or Walker properly, but we have signed many players designed to do their jobs and all bar trippier have failed. If we’d just spent a bit more, we’d be in a much better situation.

I cannot forgive the club for letting MoPo down. We had a truly excellent first 11. With proper investment we would have one trophies. And now we are in a situation where Kane is 30 soon, Son is already 30 and the opportunity has passes us by. Both the aforementioned 30 year olds deserve so much better and I won’t hate on them if they force moves in the summer. Kane certainly will.

I envy Woolwich. They are in the situation we were in 6/7 years ago. Forward facing attacking football with a very young squad. Kronke will do the opposite of Levy and they will win things.

The stadium was meant to be a game changer for us and our stature. But nothing has changed. It’s a cash cow. Like any corporation - maximise profits x minimise spend.

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Can't argue with that

 

[Matt1882]

History of trying to be the best?

How many league titles did we win last century?

If we equal that this century does that mean we have continued our history of trying to be the best??

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How many FA Cups?
How many Uefa Cups?
How many Cup winners cups?
How many league cups?

As previously stated, until probably the inception of the PL and the money it brings, the cups were as big a deal as a league title. And we won a lot of cups.

 

[skywalker68]

Very difficult but not impossible , although hard to make a case for a club that is both. That is why the ENIC apologists being so full of righteous indignation about who might buy us is quite funny . It is tantamount to saying we can only sell to some pillar of society who only does good deeds, or stick as we are .So let’s never win anything then. My opinion is I doubt anyone becomes a multi billionaire by being a nice guy , so it’s not about being owned by nice people , it’s levels of vileness one can stomach

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Well the apologists, when they carry out due diligence on potential investors/owner's, are looking for but not limited to the following.
1- Do they walk little old ladies over the road.
2- Do they serve hot meals to the homeless on Christmas Day.
3- Do they donate to the local donkey sanctuary.
4- A complete black out on winning trophies.
5- Must invest in golf course, but don't bother spending across two windows as we have all we need.
6- refer to the fan base as customers, charge a fortune but deliver nothing.

 

[Steed_Train]

 

[skywalker68]

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I thought the first picture, was going to say what are these things?

 

[The Dealer]

Could skimmed off be replaced with Creamed Off ?

 

[WillWilliams]

How many FA Cups?
How many Uefa Cups?
How many Cup winners cups?
How many league cups?

As previously stated, until probably the inception of the PL and the money it brings, the cups were as big a deal as a league title. And we won a lot of cups.

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Is winning a cup being “the best”. I grew up with us being known as a cup team. But never challenging for the league.

These days “the best” also win the cups. The whole game has changed.
Due to money. Which others have more of.

 

[AberdeenYid]

How many FA Cups?
How many Uefa Cups?
How many Cup winners cups?
How many league cups?

As previously stated, until probably the inception of the PL and the money it brings, the cups were as big a deal as a league title. And we won a lot of cups.

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Hardly prolific in a one hundred year timescale. We were successful early 60’s, early 70’s and early 80’s. Three periods of a few years each when we were challenging for anything. So 10-12 years of success in 100. I’d love us to have another couple of successful years, but I’d rather we showed some stability throughout the club and built for sustained success instead. Something we’ve never had.

And that means same owners, same manager, same structure. Giving it time to work.

 

[Deuterz]

I do wonder whether an Woolwich league win would change some of our fans minds tbh. I mean when your rivals, with even lower revenue than us, demonstrate that by investing in the right young talent & being brave in the market you CAN win a title, will people start changing their minds on ENIC who have had 20 odd years and achieved one league cup?

Or would it still be the same excuses about oil clubs etc?

 

[Lenny Hatchet]

History of trying to be the best?

How many league titles did we win last century?

If we equal that this century does that mean we have continued our history of trying to be the best??

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Bernie my old eco Norfolk mate.
I think you are being slightly unfair chum.
Before the evil Fagin years of Sugar and Levy we certainly were the dandy Warhol cavaliers of England.
Winning the FA cup was nearly as good as the league. Every school boys dream . We were the Kings winning it more than anyone.
Signing fancy ball playing elite players that came to us over a Man utd.
First club to achieve many things, unbelievable football at times . Maybe, probably the most successful club in the swinging 60's.
Two league titles these were ground breaking "push and run" and the first double. These weren't your bland forgotten George Graham title wins.
Give me 1951 to 1991 anyday.
Under Enic we will achieve nothing of the same stature and remain in constant disharmony. The penny pinching no hopers we are regarded by our rivals .
There were many ups and downs such as relegation but there was always hope .

 

[Matt1882]

Is winning a cup being “the best”. I grew up with us being known as a cup team. But never challenging for the league.

These days “the best” also win the cups. The whole game has changed.
Due to money. Which others have more of.

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It has changed, but it's changed since we were probably the best cup team in the country.

 

[Matt1882]

8
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Hardly prolific in a one hundred year timescale. We were successful early 60’s, early 70’s and early 80’s. Three periods of a few years each when we were challenging for anything. So 10-12 years of success in 100. I’d love us to have another couple of successful years, but I’d rather we showed some stability throughout the club and built for sustained success instead. Something we’ve never had.

And that means same owners, same manager, same structure. Giving it time to work.

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That's 3 decades back to back where we won multiple cups and a title.
Not many times outside of the so called big 6 can say they have done that throughout their history.

 

[Cranston]

I do wonder whether an Woolwich league win would change some of our fans minds tbh. I mean when your rivals, with even lower revenue than us, demonstrate that by investing in the right young talent & being brave in the market you CAN win a title, will people start changing their minds on ENIC who have had 20 odd years and achieved one league cup?

Or would it still be the same excuses about oil clubs etc?

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It would be very interesting to see the reaction.

Notice how all the clubs around us might fall away but, at the correct moment, will immediately make a title tilt. It’s only really UTD that are demonstrating a persistent ability to remain shit, although at some point that will have to change too.

It’s why I find the carping about Chelsea’s position so tedious. We all know exactly what will happen. They will make the necessary changes and be competing for the title again within 18 months.

A scum win will make things very, very toxic for ENIC. Coupled with the possibility of Kane and Conte leaving.

Tell us about that NFL franchise Daniel.

 

[Tomo]

It would be very interesting to see the reaction.

Notice how all the clubs around us might fall away but, at the correct moment, will immediately make a title tilt. It’s only really UTD that are demonstrating a persistent ability to remain shit, although at some point that will have to change too.

It’s why I find the carping about Chelsea’s position so tedious. We all know exactly what will happen. They will make the necessary changes and be competing for the title again within 18 months.

A scum win will make things very, very toxic for ENIC. Coupled with the possibility of Kane and Conte leaving.

Tell us about that NFL franchise Daniel.

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Off point, but United’s ability to remain shit is going. They have some big upgrading to do but Ten Hag’s system is excellent, truly excellent when he builds his own squad over the next 1-2 season they will be challenging for the title.