• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Management ENIC

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

ENIC In or ENIC Out


  • Total voters
    209
There’s nothing inherently risky about the Glazers. They’ve leveraged the club up to the eyeballs, but if the underlying business is sound then it is perfectly acceptable.

And they’ve spent like drunk sailors.

Maybe you do not understand how the Glazers bought Man U - it was via a leveraged buyout funded by loans – many of which were secured against the club’s assets. The loans came to a total of £660m and were provided by three American hedge funds at a ridiculously high interest rate (e.g. 15% - for comparison Levy borrowed the money to build our stadium with interest of 2.1%). This thrust Man Utd into debt for the first time in over 70 years. The Glazers then sold ~£500M of Class A shares in Man U and kept the proceeds themselves - the club did not receive a penny.

Swiss Ramble estimates the Glazers have taken out £1.1 billion from Man Utd in total, which rises to £1.6B if £465m share sales (potentially rising to ~£510M)are included. That £1.1 billion is broken down into these costs:

- Interest = £743m
- Debt repayments = £147m
- Dividends = £166m
- Directors remuneration = £55m
- Management fees = £23m

It is why Man U are not very successful in recent years, despite generating by far the biggest commercial revenues. They did also once generate by far the best match day revenues too - over 5x ours in 2010 (but now they generate less than us as Old Trafford has not seen any investment or even basic maintenance). Yes, Man U have spent relatively big on players, but they could have spent over a £1B more.

If we get taken over it is just as likely to be by a family like the Glazers than the next Abramovich or Sheik Mansour.
 
Man United fans?
They literally only support the club because of their glory days. The days of winning trophies very year year after year. The days of marquee signings the days of being the best of the best and never settling for less.

You think those fans would want ENIC.
ENIC.
You think those glory hunting pricks would want the least ambitious owners in the history of football to buy them?
Their owners are many things, but they have constantly backed the coaches with players regardless of cost. They would have spent more if they were still a big draw too.
You clearly do not have a scooby about how bad the Glazers are.
 
sorry, so you seem to berate Levy for not paying Carrick, Berba, Modric and Bale more to keep them around, but then go on and say when this was done for Lloris, Kane, Son and Dele it ruined the morale of the rest of the team.

I believe Levy sacked Martin Jol because he didn't agree with the sale of Berbatov having reluctantly gone along with the sale of Michael Carrick. This is on the record from Jol himself.

Levy was complicit in these sales.

By the time Ramos had arrived Levy had sacked George Graham before an FA Cup semi final with Woolwich, Glenn Hoddle in October 03 and Santini in October 04. Santini was sacked after a 9 month search for him as manager and David Pleat had been the caretaker.

By October 07, when Jol was sacked, as far as I was concerned Levy and ENIC were worse than Sugar. They had written off 4 out of the 8 seasons, from March 2001 until October 2007, that I had paid for two season tickets, by sacking managers. ENIC had appointed 3 of these managers.

Martin Jol was the first Spurs manager to have actually made serious progress, in respect of building a credible team, since Venables 92 / 93 team.

I concluded that ENIC didn't give a fuck about Jol or the Spurs season ticket holders and members whose subscription money they had co-opted for their 'project'. They used a season ticket waiting list as a stick to beat season ticket holders with, so they complied with increased prices, and The Supporters Trust as a device to bring onside any potential dissenting voices and to quell any potential unrest before it gained momentum. The Trust endorsed and went along with all of ENIC's penny pinching.

This was the main reason I gave up my two Paxton Road season tickets in block 19 row 2.

I have seen nothing since then to persuade me I was wrong about them.

What should he have done? Levy should have sold the club to Abramovich.

At the time neither Carrick, Berba, Modric or Bale were signing an improved contract to keep them about, they had their eye on bugger things so we had to dig deep and get the best deal we could, and reinvest.

That is your opinion. That opinion is not one I share. Selling your best players sets a precedent. It informs other clubs that you are willing to sell. Selling Carrick just encouraged United to come back for Berbatov. That is how I saw it then and it is how I see it now.

Only now are we able to compete with the top six on keeping our best players, and even then it's not guaranteed, either to keep them around, or prove to be a wise investment (see Le Celso, and Tanguy).
I have no idea what the answer is, the Brentford game was awful, i'm not sure if Conte is happy, if Poch is waiting in the wings so giving Levy a safety blanket. Part of my thinks Patrici is now in charge of transfers, so if he has the budget why is all this falling at the feet of Levy.
Do I want a oligarch, sheik, or an American owner coming in with all that BS...? No not really. Do I want this tight ENIC tenure to end, sometimes yes. I'm probably too trusting, but working in sports marketing, advertising and branding, a lot of what they're doing from a commercial POV makes sense and will reward THFC. I do have a sinking feeling Conte will be off in the summe
r and the merry-go-round will start again, along with Son, Kane and Lloris leaving.


Levy has overseen the breaking up of Poch's team and everything else that has happened, since Dembele left Spurs in January 2019, is on Levy and ENIC.

Levy and ENIC have to back this manager. He was their choice.

So was Jose.

ENIC should either fund Conte for the players he needs or put the club up for sale and do the right thing by the supporters for once.

ENIC's ownership of Spurs is reaching it's conclusion.

Their business model brought them moderate success in the mid to late noughties but football is continually evolving and they are looking increasingly like yesterday's men.

Their methods don't work any more.
I get your frustrations and I feel that way at times so I don't want to stoke the fire but some of your facts aren't quite fair.

You say Santini was sacked, but didn't he walk after a couple of games? I think his wife, or extended family decided London wasn't for them and he left. Jol was his assistant and stepped up - I have very fond memories of this time.

We had eyes on Europe, and Ramos was doing the business at Seville and Levy believed he could get him as Jol was going off the boil. It was handled very poorly as everyone knew, included Jol himself before the announcement was made. It was very disrespectful. Some say Ramos changed our diet and fitness regimes and if stuck with, it would have paid dividends in the long run, but the players didn't like it and seemed to be downing tools.

Carrick used us as a stepping stone, he was a northern boy at heart and wanted out, we refused Man U offers for several months until we really had no choice. It's not my opinion that Modric and Bale refused new contracts and one publicly refused to train, and the other, Modric agreed one more season with Levy and played brilliantly. Nothing we could of done. Berba, broke my heart when he went, he was 100% tapped up and it's there for all to read about. I nearly threw up when I saw him in the United offices on deadline day, it felt like I had been cheated on. You can't blame Levy for any of these transfers.

Dembele was shot, whilst an amazing player, he had been struggling with fitness for a couple of seasons and wanted to play in an easier league, it's a great shame as personally, I feel we could have got another season or two out of him. He was unique.

There are so many things Levy has done wrong but we should keep it to the things he is actually responsible for, otherwise we start sounding like a bunch of loons.

I hope none of this is patronising, it's certainly not my intention. I don't really know how I feel about everything. we've got three season tickets in the family so need to make a decision sometime soon. It's bitter sweet, we've got great facilities but are lacking in other areas, I feel this is in part to ENIC, but also very much down to sportswashing of other clubs around the globe, of which I want no part of.

So i'm on the fence. I see Conte perhaps going in the Summer, with Poch waiting in the wings. I'm not feeling great about this prospect but until he comes back it will always hang over us. Good or bad I just want it out the way. the transfer window is yet to open so it's hard to slate the team until it has concluded.
 
Maybe you do not understand how the Glazers bought Man U - it was via a leveraged buyout funded by loans – many of which were secured against the club’s assets. The loans came to a total of £660m and were provided by three American hedge funds at a ridiculously high interest rate (e.g. 15% - for comparison Levy borrowed the money to build our stadium with interest of 2.1%). This thrust Man Utd into debt for the first time in over 70 years. The Glazers then sold ~£500M of Class A shares in Man U and kept the proceeds themselves - the club did not receive a penny.

Swiss Ramble estimates the Glazers have taken out £1.1 billion from Man Utd in total, which rises to £1.6B if £465m share sales (potentially rising to ~£510M)are included. That £1.1 billion is broken down into these costs:

- Interest = £743m
- Debt repayments = £147m
- Dividends = £166m
- Directors remuneration = £55m
- Management fees = £23m

It is why Man U are not very successful in recent years, despite generating by far the biggest commercial revenues. They did also once generate by far the best match day revenues too - over 5x ours in 2010 (but now they generate less than us as Old Trafford has not seen any investment or even basic maintenance). Yes, Man U have spent relatively big on players, but they could have spent over a £1B more.

If we get taken over it is just as likely to be by a family like the Glazers than the next Abramovich or Sheik Mansour.
I’m fully aware of the deal.

UTD are in the doldrums because they have bought like total and utter clown shoes. Not because of the owners.

It’s obviously perfectly reasonable to dislike the terms of the ownership. I’m not disputing that. Just that it bares no relation to why they are doing poorly.
 
I’m fully aware of the deal.

UTD are in the doldrums because they have bought like total and utter clown shoes. Not because of the owners.

It’s obviously perfectly reasonable to dislike the terms of the ownership. I’m not disputing that. Just that it bares no relation to why they are doing poorly.
If you really understood that the Glazers have cost Man U £1.6B you'd realise they are a major contributing factor in their decline.
 
We weren't in the same bracket as say Liverpool through the 70's and 80's but we were always in with a shout of a cup. And we were always trying to be in with a shout.
But that’s my point - we were in with a shout of the cup, but so was everyone else. Since we last won the cup in 91, the winning side has come from the others in the top six (the five teams richer than us) 28 times from 32 competitions.

It’s so much harder to win a pot now than it was back in the day. So whilst our successes in the 60s, 70s and 80s were wonderful, they weren’t the mark of a “massive” or truly “successful” club. We were around as good as Everton, Southampton, West Ham, Ipswich, etc.
 
This is why they'd prefer Enic.


They estimate that the Glazers have taken a staggering £1.1bn out of the club in the last 17 years.

This figure includes an eye-watering £743m in interest payments on the money they borrowed to buy the club in the first place.

Debt repayments make up another £147m, while owners have paid themselves dividends of £166m - including £133m in the last decade alone.

Over the last ten years, United's spend has not outweighed the money brought into the club in revenue even once.

Directors have been remunerated £55m since the Glazers' arrival, while £23m has also been taken out of the club in "management fees

The £154m taken out of United by the Glazers in the last decade is more than any other Prem club.


And that right there is why I'm worried about who our new owners could potentially be.
That's why they want the Glaziers out.
That's got absolutely no relevance as to why they would want ENIC in.
 
The United fans would go into total revolt if Enic bought them after they got rid of the Glazers .
While they would be run financially prudently but with limited ambition on the pitch.
My mate from Salford would regard it another disaster.
 
But that’s my point - we were in with a shout of the cup, but so was everyone else. Since we last won the cup in 91, the winning side has come from the others in the top six (the five teams richer than us) 28 times from 32 competitions.

It’s so much harder to win a pot now than it was back in the day. So whilst our successes in the 60s, 70s and 80s were wonderful, they weren’t the mark of a “massive” or truly “successful” club. We were around as good as Everton, Southampton, West Ham, Ipswich, etc.
We were the record FA cup winning team when winning the FA cup was only a small step down on the league title in terms of prestige .
We were nothing like West Ham , Southampton or Ipswich
 
But that’s my point - we were in with a shout of the cup, but so was everyone else. Since we last won the cup in 91, the winning side has come from the others in the top six (the five teams richer than us) 28 times from 32 competitions.

It’s so much harder to win a pot now than it was back in the day. So whilst our successes in the 60s, 70s and 80s were wonderful, they weren’t the mark of a “massive” or truly “successful” club. We were around as good as Everton, Southampton, West Ham, Ipswich, etc.


Everton where a top club, I am not sure you believe the bit in bold though, come on, we weren’t United but fuck me we weren’t Ipswich either, we are still number 6 in total trophies even after these barren decades. Only teams above us are Liverpool, United, Woolwich and the doped clubs City and Chelsea.
 
Everton where a top club, I am not sure you believe the bit in bold though, come on, we weren’t United but fuck me we weren’t Ipswich either, we are still number 6 in total trophies even after these barren decades. Only teams above us are Liverpool, United, Woolwich and the doped clubs City and Chelsea.
Agreed Ref Everton , poor buggers now have Fat Frank doing his best to relegate them , sorry I mean keep them up .
 
Everton where a top club, I am not sure you believe the bit in bold though, come on, we weren’t United but fuck me we weren’t Ipswich either, we are still number 6 in total trophies even after these barren decades. Only teams above us are Liverpool, United, Woolwich and the doped clubs City and Chelsea.
My point is that in the 60’s 70’s and 80’s, a large number of teams enjoyed success, compared to now. The likes of the sides I mentioned had small periods where they were maybe not the best, but close to it. As did we.

So my reasoning is, since this is factually the case, it was easier to be successful back then than it is now. It’s my argument against “we were the greatest team ever until ENIC took over - we were never done hiring the open top bus”. It’s just not true.
 
Everton where a top club, I am not sure you believe the bit in bold though, come on, we weren’t United but fuck me we weren’t Ipswich either, we are still number 6 in total trophies even after these barren decades. Only teams above us are Liverpool, United, Woolwich and the doped clubs City and Chelsea.
Great Post Tomo Tomo

Our fans really should start respecting our illustrious past rather than dissing it with such demeaning comparisons
 
Great Post Tomo Tomo

Our fans really should start respecting our illustrious past rather than dissing it with such demeaning comparisons
Aye, horrendous comparison. West Ham won a couple of FA Cups in the seventies, we won a couple in the eighties. Ipswich won a Euro trophy in the 80’s so did we. They were also runners up a couple of times in the league around then.

Not really sure how you can’t see comparisons there? Whilst we’ve been very successful in the past, it was easier then. The variance of successful sides confirms this. It’s almost a closed shop today, so harder to succeed.

Unless you’re trying to support an ongoing agenda obviously.
 
Aye, horrendous comparison. West Ham won a couple of FA Cups in the seventies, we won a couple in the eighties. Ipswich won a Euro trophy in the 80’s so did we. They were also runners up a couple of times in the league around then.

Not really sure how you can’t see comparisons there? Whilst we’ve been very successful in the past, it was easier then. The variance of successful sides confirms this. It’s almost a closed shop today, so harder to succeed.

Unless you’re trying to support an ongoing agenda obviously.
Yeah, we are small, we should just give up and let ENIC milk the club for any profit.
 
Back
Top