Management ENIC

[HampshireSpur]

Copying this from another thread, more or less - main issue going forward for Levy/ENIC is how we will correct several years of misdirection on the pitch. It appears Levy has taken a step back and delegated things on the football side, but unfortunately has mostly appointed the wrong people, including the crook Paratici. Maybe this Scott guy will be one step in the right direction though I realise he will be working on the financial side.

I don't think our model is wrong, I prefer being owned by accountant types rather than sports washing oil states/blood money, but the crucial question(s) are these: are we making the most of our resources and following the right strategy? I have to say I look at us on the pitch for the last few seasons and I see no style, no shape, and that's of course partly managers but we do really need joined up thinking on the football side between coaches, DoF, players and other strategising matters.

When we have spent money we've spent it badly - e.g., millions on Ndombele (not serious about being a pro footballer); Lo Celso (commitment issues, permanently injured); Sanchez (can't stand up). That's £150 million or so right there. How many right backs do we have? Did we need to sign Porro? Was Richarlison the right buy? Could go on - for me this is all symptomatic of a lack of joined up thinking: our transfer policy looks scattergun at best from the outside and we've appointed three defensive, low block managers who go against the ethos of what the club is apparently about. We need to sort out and stick to a coherent identity and find someone who buys into this, can work with a proper DoF, and will be prepared to work on a limited (but not awful) budget.

TL;DR - we can't compete with the bottomless finances of some of the clubs in our league so we need to be shrewd - I favour a progressive, modern coach who will work with youth, use the academy properly, and play attacking football. Conte's (and Jose's, and Nuno's) main failings were that they did none of these things.

 

[The Extra Mile(sey)]

You really are a piece of work, aren't you.

Not content with just ridiculing other fans on here who want better for our club, you're now stooping to ridicule and piss take actual match going fans spending huge amounts of their hard earned dough watching their team......

While you just spend each weekend sat on your disgusting big fat arse preaching and pontificating.

It's quite shameful behaviour to be honest with you, mate

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I think he just likes being a contrarian

 

[Nuts]

Wow the ENIC out chants are deafening, I reckon this chant and the petition of 15k signatures will definitely turn Levy's head.

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They were loud. That’s not a cluster of 20 cloned Brian Dagul’s with tin foil hats on. That’s a fair few thousand people.

 

[LeParisien]

Of course not. They should absolutely be investing some of their investment gains though to get the investment back on track. I expect c.£500M to be pumped in this summer, that’s around 10% of their total gains from initial investment of 30M (which was repaid through a murky share dilution if I remember correctly). Agree?

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The investment gains are unrealised. The asset (THFC) has increased in value but that doesn’t imply the owners now have the liquidity to invest huge sums.

As an analogy… let’s say you bought a house in 2001 for 300k. Now let’s say you completely remodelled it, improved the garden, added a pool and built a garage. Your total assets now (22 years later) might be worth 3 million through a combination of a rise in house prices generally and the money invested in your homes. That’s doesn’t mean you now have 300k in cash to spend on a boat… your cash is tied up in your investments.

You could take out a loan against the positive equity… that’s how billionaires often get liquidity. Most of Bezos’s wealth is tied up in stock… he can’t spend that money tonight but that’s a foolish thing to do for a football club. The transfer market doesn’t offer anything like safe returns so to take out loans against the club to invest in players is extremely foolish. Even Deuterz isnt asking for that.

No idea where you get your 500m value from.

 

[bonaspur23]

You really are a piece of work, aren't you.

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[LeParisien]

Enic has borrowed huge sums which are the clubs debt. They own the shares but via the limited nature of the business are not responsible for that debt. The debt will be paid off via revenue but as revenue increases and the value of the club increases who will profit? Yes that's it the share holders. Meanwhile the footballing side has spent 5 years spiralling downwards into the shit we have now. Levy has placed the club in a situation where the increase in revenue is actually neutral due to the wages we pay for players loaned out who are unsellable at the amounts he wants, oh and the interest we pay for our debt.

Still the revenue increases makes Daniels shares worth so much more...

Running the club well financially (though clearly that's not the case) is not how you compete, it's be getting the footballing side of things sorted. Oh yeah dickhead Dan has bought in some fucking Aussie with experience in NRL ARL the Olympics, shit Aussie league teams and China?????? To run out footballing side. Can you imagine if some Aussie rules team brought in someone from fucking Europe to run the sporting side of the club???? No they wouldnt!

Nothing changes with levy at the helm.

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The debt the club has undertaken under ENIC is secured ie. there is collateral. That’s very different from taking out a loan to buy players.

Consider the kind of interest rates you could get for a mortgage and compare that with a personal loan. The latter will be higher than the former because it’s unsecured.

If I’m honest I don’t really understand what your argument is. What’s your conclusion? What’s your supporting evidence? It’s not really clear.

It mostly seems like you’re unhappy that our performance has regressed to the mean after a good period of over performance. We’ve got the 5th most resources in the league so finishing 5th is exactly where we expect to be.

What I’d like is for us to play better football and have more of an identity as a club.

 

[Deuterz]

The investment gains are unrealised. The asset (THFC) has increased in value but that doesn’t imply the owners now have the liquidity to invest huge sums.

As an analogy… let’s say you bought a house in 2001 for 300k. Now let’s say you completely remodelled it, improved the garden, added a pool and built a garage. Your total assets now (22 years later) might be worth 3 million through a combination of a rise in house prices generally and the money invested in your homes. That’s doesn’t mean you now have 300k in cash to spend on a boat… your cash is tied up in your investments.

You could take out a loan against the positive equity… that’s how billionaires often get liquidity. Most of Bezos’s wealth is tied up in stock… he can’t spend that money tonight but that’s a foolish thing to do for a football club. The transfer market doesn’t offer anything like safe returns so to take out loans against the club to invest in players is extremely foolish. Even Deuterz isnt asking for that.

No idea where you get your 500m value from.

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I don't think he wants ENIC to loan us money. He wants them to invest it in to the club. You can say that's completely unreasonable or w/e but its what a lot of other owners have done. Most owners in the league in fact have pumped hundreds of millions of their own capital in to the club with no expectation of repayment. They do it because they view the club as an investment and take the risk on improved revenue from improved sporting performances.

But again, I don't want them to do it. Because we don't have the underlying structure in place to make lots of spending worthwhile right now at all.

 

[Shadydan]

They were loud. That’s not a cluster of 20 cloned Brian Dagul’s with tin foil hats on. That’s a fair few thousand people.

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In a 66k seater stadium that's nothing

 

[LeParisien]

Copying this from another thread, more or less - main issue going forward for Levy/ENIC is how we will correct several years of misdirection on the pitch. It appears Levy has taken a step back and delegated things on the football side, but unfortunately has mostly appointed the wrong people, including the crook Paratici. Maybe this Scott guy will be one step in the right direction though I realise he will be working on the financial side.

I don't think our model is wrong, I prefer being owned by accountant types rather than sports washing oil states/blood money, but the crucial question(s) are these: are we making the most of our resources and following the right strategy? I have to say I look at us on the pitch for the last few seasons and I see no style, no shape, and that's of course partly managers but we do really need joined up thinking on the football side between coaches, DoF, players and other strategising matters.

When we have spent money we've spent it badly - e.g., millions on Ndombele (not serious about being a pro footballer); Lo Celso (commitment issues, permanently injured); Sanchez (can't stand up). That's £150 million or so right there. How many right backs do we have? Did we need to sign Porro? Was Richarlison the right buy? Could go on - for me this is all symptomatic of a lack of joined up thinking: our transfer policy looks scattergun at best from the outside and we've appointed three defensive, low block managers who go against the ethos of what the club is apparently about. We need to sort out and stick to a coherent identity and find someone who buys into this, can work with a proper DoF, and will be prepared to work on a limited (but not awful) budget.

TL;DR - we can't compete with the bottomless finances of some of the clubs in our league so we need to be shrewd - I favour a progressive, modern coach who will work with youth, use the academy properly, and play attacking football. Conte's (and Jose's, and Nuno's) main failings were that they did none of these things.

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Amazing post. Agree with all of it.

 

[Nuts]

In a 66k seater stadium that's nothing

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Well, yes it is. It’s a few thousand people and I bet a fair whack of them are the away supporters who are the most loyal of all. The plastics and tourists aren’t going to be singing. They barely make a noise during a game anyway.

There is discontent and it will grow if we continue to limp from season to season the way we have been doing with no clear strategy. A plan with a manager to get behind and a squad that gives it their all consistently can change this quickly.

But feel free to bury your head in the sand on this one.

 

[LeParisien]

I don't think he wants ENIC to loan us money. He wants them to invest it in to the club. You can say that's completely unreasonable or w/e but its what a lot of other owners have done. Most owners in the league in fact have pumped hundreds of millions of their own capital in to the club with no expectation of repayment. They do it because they view the club as an investment and take the risk on improved revenue from improved sporting performances.

But again, I don't want them to do it. Because we don't have the underlying structure in place to make lots of spending worthwhile right now at all.

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You’re factually wrong. Owners do not pour their own money in. That’s not the business world even a little bit.

Clubs that have received owner investment do so almost exclusively through LOANS. They expect the club to pay them back - they aren’t purely speculating on the success of that investment. If the investment fails the club will owe them that money.

So we come full circle - do you expect the owners to loan the club money? Would you be happy if the club owed hundreds of millions to ENIC?

Because you seem to have said no in the last 24 hrs and yet now you seem to be saying yes?

 

[Deuterz]

You’re factually wrong. Owners do not pour their own money in. That’s not the business world even a little bit.

Clubs that have received owner investment do so almost exclusively through LOANS. They expect the club to pay them back - they aren’t purely speculating on the success of that investment. If the investment fails the club will owe them that money.

So we come full circle - do you expect the owners to loan the club money? Would you be happy if the club owed hundreds of millions to ENIC?

Because you seem to have said no in the last 24 hrs and yet now you seem to be saying yes?

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I'm not factually wrong, you are. These owners putting money in to the clubs are not doing so via loans, they aren't expecting interest payments, they're putting money in to their investment. This happens all the time, you're wrong & should accept it. If the investment fails, Moshiri will get nothing at Everton for example. Only the money he's putting in is actually keeping them afloat atm.

You know nothing about this because you live in ENIC world where no owners would ever invest without it being blood money or extortionate loans which destroy their clubs. Its a fantasy world.

But why would I be surprised? It's your job.

 

[LeParisien]

Good post. This is the most recent evidence I can find which backs you up completely

Keeping good company Sandwiched between Mike Ashley and the Glazers. ....Swiss ramble. Extremely reliable source.

I just can't understand this handful of individuals spending so much time defending these people. Honestly.
It's like a full time job. An obsession.

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You’re so dishonest.

You know that since then 150m has been put I to the club which on those figures puts us above Liverpool.

But most importantly of all, compare the figures for clubs there with this:



The financing clubs receive is through LOANS by the owners. Are you happy for THFC to owe ENIC hundreds of millions in repayable loans?

I am not. Is that what you want?

 

[LeParisien]

I'm not factually wrong, you are. These owners putting money in to the clubs are not doing so via loans, they aren't expecting interest payments, they're putting money in to their investment. This happens all the time, you're wrong & should accept it. If the investment fails, Moshiri will get nothing at Everton for example. Only the money he's putting in is actually keeping them afloat atm.

You know nothing about this because you live in ENIC world where no owners would ever invest without it being blood money or extortionate loans which destroy their clubs. Its a fantasy world.

But why would I be surprised? It's your job.

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Look at the post below yours.

And what’s more, as a matter of fact Abramovich and Ashley and others have had their loans repaid.

You’re living in a fantasy world where facts don’t matter.

 

[Deuterz]

You’re so dishonest.

You know that since then 150m has been put I to the club which on those figures puts us above Liverpool.

But most importantly of all, compare the figures for clubs there with this:



The financing clubs receive is through LOANS by the owners. Are you happy for THFC to owe ENIC hundreds of millions in repayable loans?

I am not. Is that what you want?

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THEY WILL NOT ASK FOR REPAYMENTS ON THESE LOANS! Only owners like fucking Mike Ashley do that.

I guarantee that Tony Bloom, Moshiri etc will never ask for repayments. These are investments in to the clubs and the 'repayments' are expected to come by growing the club.

You're acting like they're saddling these clubs with loads of high interest loans which the owners will come back and demand at a later date. You think Bloom is putting money in to the training ground, pitch, staff, players to just demand 200m back from Brighton in a few years? No. Obviously not, you cretin.

 

[Deuterz]

Look at the post below yours.

And what’s more, as a matter of fact Abramovich and Ashley and others have had their loans repaid.

You’re living in a fantasy world where facts don’t matter.

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Abramovich wrote off the loans to the club entirely.

Roman Abramovich confirms Chelsea are for sale and writes off £1.5bn loans

Roman Abramovich has confirmed he has put Chelsea up for sale and has written off the £1.5 billion of loans he has made to the club. Abramovich, 55, said in a statement on Wednesday that net proceeds from the sale of the Premier League club would be donated to a charitable foundation which would...

theathletic.com

Ashley is a prick, and was never interested in making Newcastle sustainable or growing them. Most other PL owners are, so won't operate like he will. All you've got (again) are examples of the absolute worst owners like Glazers/Ashley, who it is VERY VERY VERY unlikely we would ever end up with.

 

[LeParisien]

THEY WILL NOT ASK FOR REPAYMENTS ON THESE LOANS! Only owners like fucking Mike Ashley do that.

I guarantee that Tony Bloom, Moshiri etc will never ask for repayments. These are investments in to the clubs and the 'repayments' are expected to come by growing the club.

You're acting like they're saddling these clubs with loads of high interest loans which the owners will come back and demand at a later date. You think Bloom is putting money in to the training ground, pitch, staff, players to just demand 200m back from Brighton in a few years? No. Obviously not, you cretin.

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Well as long as you guarantee it…

Your position is freaking under the evidence.

The loans may be interest free but the owners will absolutely expect that money back. They’re not putting that money in out of the kindness of their heart. What a funny image you have of billionaires.

 

[Brian Fantana]

From Coys reddit, I imagine you'll all be agreeing with this?

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Would be nice to find out though wouldn’t it? 20 plus years is more than long enough to own a football club.

 

[Deuterz]

Well as long as you guarantee it…

Your position is freaking under the evidence.

The loans may be interest free but the owners will absolutely expect that money back. They’re not putting that money in out of the kindness of their heart. What a funny image you have of billionaires.

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Ergh, of course they expect that money back. as a ROI when they either sell the club or as a consistent flow of money from having grown the club to a certain point where they're successful. Bloom is putting money in because he's growing Brighton to a point where they're an excellent footballing operation who have a factory of players to be sold for big prices & the scouts/coaching staff to continually churn out these players.

They aren't going to turn up at the stadium and demand loan repayments. This is small time bullshit.

 

[LeParisien]

Abramovich wrote off the loans to the club entirely.

Roman Abramovich confirms Chelsea are for sale and writes off £1.5bn loans

Roman Abramovich has confirmed he has put Chelsea up for sale and has written off the £1.5 billion of loans he has made to the club. Abramovich, 55, said in a statement on Wednesday that net proceeds from the sale of the Premier League club would be donated to a charitable foundation which would...

theathletic.com

Ashley is a prick, and was never interested in making Newcastle sustainable or growing them. Most other PL owners are, so won't operate like he will. All you've got (again) are examples of the absolute worst owners like Glazers/Ashley, who it is VERY VERY VERY unlikely we would ever end up with.

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That’s true if you look at articles dated March 2. Look at articles from two months later and you realise the opposite is the case.

Abramovich situation is fairly unique because most owners will not end up the subject of sanctions by the government but the loans were repaid even if Abramovich could not personally benefit from that.

You think a 30s google is a substitute for having a clue.

I guess we’re done.