Generally smart signings so far not 100% happy but more than content and it's funny how this window (from a pure incomings point of view) is already better than that shit show last summer.
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Transfers Summer Transfer Thread 2023! - Closed (Maybe)
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Well, I suspect Richarlison expected more game time - not from Kane in PL, but from other places around him in PL, and perhaps sometimes for Kane in other competitions.
It's not just because of Europe, but you have to admit, not having Europe does mean one less competition to put out a side in and give people game time.
I don't know what dippers are saying about VVD and Konate, I don't follow them closely, but i do know that Romero will expect to start when available, and we will all expect him to, and the same for Tapsoba if he were to join...
I'm not saying VdV won't come on that basis, I'm just saying that a). I wouldn't be that surprised if he's not keen on the idea, and b). Your statement that it's "Not the clubs problem. The players need to win their place" just seems a bit naive to me in relation to players we're trying to persuade to sign for us now. But perhaps I've taken you too literally there. Either way, let's hope you're right and we end up with 3 good CBs.
VdV article on athletic:
Micky van de Ven: Uncompromising defender would bring speed and strength to Tottenham
Sebastian Stafford-Bloor
Jul 5, 2023
29
Almost everyone has now seen the clip that made Micky van de Ven famous.
It comes from the end of January this year, when his Wolfsburg team were searching for a goal deep in stoppage time as a way back into a DFB-Pokal tie they were losing 2-1 away to Union Berlin.
Wolfsburg loaded the penalty box, goalkeeper and all, for one last corner, only to see the ball cleared and punted back into their half, towards the unguarded net.
The game was over, time was up. Jerome Roussillon, one of the quicker wing-backs in Germany, raced away and towards the loose ball, and would have scored a third goal in front of his own supporters were it not for Van de Ven, who ran from one six-yard box to the other, making up enough ground to block his goal-bound shot just before the line.
It was a miraculous clearance — because of the blur-like acceleration but also Van de Ven’s willingness to chase two different sorts of lost cause. Whether Roussillon had scored or not, Union were going through, and the referee allowed the action to continue only because it would have seemed churlish to blow the whistle.
By some distance, it was the finest goal-line clearance in German football last season. Most likely, it will be the best for many years to come.
But it’s an anecdote rather than a real description. That sequence shows only fragments of Van de Ven’s game — his speed and his spirit — and yet that viral moment has helped to build a reputation that his talent deserves, and could take him to Tottenham Hotspur for a fee in the region of £30million ($38.2m).
"Dann wirst du auch am Ende belohnt" I 1. FC Union Berlin - VfL Wolfsburg 2:1 I DFB-Pokal Highlights
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Van de Ven’s Netherlands side were eliminated from this summer’s European Under-21 Championship in Romania and Georgia at the group stage.
The Wolfsburg defender was certainly among their better performers, however, and the tournament was still a stage for his personality.
Their final game against Georgia, a 1-1 draw that was terminal to Dutch hopes, was contested in a bear pit of an atmosphere in Tbilisi. The first two games, however, were both sparsely attended and had a lockdown atmosphere that allowed conversations on the pitch to echo around. Van de Ven was his side’s captain for many of those minutes and he was loud and fierce, and walked with a strut.
And why not? His rise in the game has been extremely quick.
Within the space of 18 months, he’s graduated from the second tier of Dutch football with FC Volendam to become, at just 22, one of the most talked-about young centre-backs in the Bundesliga.
Part of his reputation comes from his physical stature. He’s 6ft 3in (191cm), broad-shouldered and, in 2022-23, the Bundesliga ranked him as the quickest centre-back in the German top flight.
Running speed statistics shouldn’t always be taken literally but in this case, they do describe the athlete; outrunning him would be like to trying to evade that big rock rumbling after Indiana Jones in Raiders Of The Lost Ark. He’s been largely excellent for Wolfsburg and it’s not unreasonable for him to be deemed an option for RB Leipzig, should they sell the mighty Josko Gvardiol this summer.
These are not impressions formed only from youth tournaments and theory. Van de Ven authored a strong body of work at Wolfsburg last season. Niko Kovac’s team have generally operated from a back four, with Van de Ven partnering Maxence Lacroix in the middle, but he’s also been pushed out to the left of a back three and, on occasion, used as the left-back in a four.
Specifically, the Lacroix partnership has worked well. Whereas Van de Ven habitually carries the ball forward into midfield and sometimes beyond, 23-year-old Frenchman Lacroix is a more static player and a more traditional centre-back. There’s good chemistry between the two; they are balanced and complementary.
While the Bundesliga’s defensive standards are not high currently and Wolfsburg suffered a late-season 6-0 hammering at Borussia Dortmund which sullied their goals-against tally, that pairing — and their defence as a whole — has been resolute.
Van de Ven on the ball for Wolfsburg (Photo: Helge Prang/Getty Images)
It’s worth noting also that Dortmund defeat, a humbling afternoon for Van de Ven, saw him pushed to the left of a back three with two unfamiliar central defensive partners to his right and a wing-back in Jakub Kaminski on his outside who is both young and, really, more of a wide midfielder.
Van de Ven did not play well. It was arguably his worst game of the season. But he was left badly exposed against Dortmund’s lightning-quick wide-forwards, and he was really more symptom than cause.
Focusing instead on last season as a whole, Van de Ven’s profile is compelling.
His size and speed have been noted and, naturally, they make him a formidable opponent either in a race, or in a shoulder-to-shoulder situation. He doesn’t lose many of those duels.
With the ball, he’s also an asset. Aesthetically, he can look a bit like a lorry without brakes, rolling downhill and gathering speed. He’s definitely not one of those artist-like centre-backs; he plays in heavy boots rather than velvet slippers, but he is more technical than he looks and capable of finding a way to escape opponents and protecting the ball under pressure.
His distribution is not adventurous. He’s safe and reliable in possession and can knife the odd pass into midfield, but he doesn’t clip the ball 60 yards and land it on the toe of a team-mate. Actually, his long-range distribution can be quite agricultural and while he is bold at taking players on, he knows his limitations as a playmaker.
What’s also interesting, is that despite a generally active, aggressive profile, his defensive engagement is not high at all. In any way, in fact: on the ground or in the air, despite his height.
In the Smarterscout chart above, which comes courtesy of The Athletic’s Mark Carey, the defensive numbers point to a player who doesn’t force himself upon attacking moves and who doesn’t jump “up and out” in pursuit of the ball. In style, he’s actually quite laissez-faire. For instance, watching Van de Ven defend against counter-attacks, his tendency is really to delay the move rather than to try to stop it dead. He’s a considered defender; patient, even.
As far as Tottenham’s overtures are concerned, considering Cristian Romero is highly compulsive, always drawn to the ball, and always determined to make a challenge one way or another, that kind of partnership would have balance. There would be overlap in the sense that both players like to range upfield, but they fundamentally contrast in the way that they prefer to defend.
There are still reasons to be cautious.
Van de Ven is a powerful and forceful tackler. In close-range situations, his size is often a strength in the sense that he blocks out the sun; he takes away passing avenues and the path to goal very well. However, he also has a scything technique that produces a “ball and all” impact that, if interpreted in a certain way, might draw refereeing attention, fouls and cards of various hues.
Perhaps more concerning is what looks like a vulnerability against a certain type of player.
The screen grab below is taken from Wolfsburg’s visit to Borussia Monchengladbach in April. It shows Nathan Ngoumou in possession and Van de Ven facing him in a good position, but with loose marking from his team-mates nearer the penalty spot.
Ngoumou was signed by Gladbach last summer and aside from a few minutes at the end of October’s reverse fixture, this was the first time the two had faced each other in the Bundesliga. As the position of his left foot suggests, Van de Ven is anticipating that Ngoumou will head for the byline, keep the ball on his stronger right side, and aim to stand up a cross to the back post.
But when Ngoumou chops inside, Van de Ven’s weight distribution leaves him unable to recover ground quickly enough, and the winger has the time to bend the opening goal inside the far post. Wolfsburg lost the game, 2-0.
There was mitigation.
Data from Ngoumou’s performances show he was far more likely to cross in this situation than to cut back and shoot. He averaged just 0.46 shots per 90 minutes in the Bundesliga last season and Van de Ven, who was presumably made aware of such numbers, was likely just playing those percentages.
To further emphasise that point, this was actually Ngoumou’s only goal in 21 appearances for Gladbach last season, so this might just have been a case of a defender being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and paying a heavy price.
However, Van de Ven was also tilted off-balance in a very similar way by Youssoufa Moukoko in that six-goal hiding at the Westfalenstadion, giving up a scoring chance that his goalkeeper Koen Casteels did well to parry. Other moments from his season — particularly against Hertha Berlin at home and, coincidently, from that cup tie with Union — also suggest that his footwork isn’t always as efficient as it might be, and that he can be slow to respond when the ball is moved quickly in front of him.
That hardly constitutes a red flag or a terminal flaw, but it’s a weakness dynamic and technical opponents can target.
And obviously, the higher in the game Van de Ven goes, the more of those players he’ll encounter.
From the perspective of how Van de Ven’s career might develop, it’s worth considering where he’s come from and what the catalysts behind his rapid rise have been.
He was born in Wormer, a small town not far north of Amsterdam, and his formative footballing years were spent in Volendam, which, by population, is smaller than Chippenham in Wiltshire or Paris, Texas. Wolfsburg is several times bigger, obviously, but its atmosphere still isn’t comparable to a major city.
Van de Van acknowledges Wolfsburg fans (Photo: Boris Streubel/Getty Images)
As a place, it’s centred — literally and figuratively — around the Volkswagen plant, and while it attracts hundreds of thousands of visitors a year, almost all of those come to see the Autostadt, which offers a museum and factory tours, with many unaware that there’s a football stadium just a few hundred yards away.
The point being: it’s not a bright spotlight if you’re playing your football there.
The Volkswagen Arena looks bigger than it is and Wolfsburg rarely even come close to selling out its 30,000 capacity. Financially, they are a big club that attracts talented players and has been periodically competitive in the Bundesliga, but they don’t compare to teams such as Schalke, Hamburg and Stuttgart, despite being much more successful than them in recent years.
Depending on a player’s personality, it’s an ideal place to learn and develop. There are expectations, yes, but bad results and performances in Wolfsburg don’t necessarily attract as much scrutiny and opprobrium as they do elsewhere.
All of which might be irrelevant; talented, emotionally resilient players come from capital cities and hamlets alike, but if Van de Ven were to move to a major club, either within Germany or beyond, and be exposed to the viciousness of the news cycle and the fans’ tantrums on social media, it would be a new challenge and something that he hasn’t experienced before.
It’s in his future, though. That’s inevitable. How he copes with that change when it comes and how well his next club can refine his abilities will determine whether he keeps rising on the same trajectory.
Spelling error in line 178
Donate, is he the Liverpool player, sorry that’s Konate
I wonder if things would differ if all fees were undisclosed
Would clubs pay as high without pressure of fans knowing the cost.
Would players who have perhaps underperformed play better without the pressure of the fee that was paid. Etc.
Well, I suspect Richarlison expected more game time - not from Kane in PL, but from other places around him in PL, and perhaps sometimes for Kane in other competitions.
It's not just because of Europe, but you have to admit, not having Europe does mean one less competition to put out a side in and give people game time.
I don't know what dippers are saying about VVD and Konate, I don't follow them closely, but i do know that Romero will expect to start when available, and we will all expect him to, and the same for Tapsoba if he were to join...
I'm not saying VdV won't come on that basis, I'm just saying that a). I wouldn't be that surprised if he's not keen on the idea, and b). Your statement that it's "Not the clubs problem. The players need to win their place" just seems a bit naive to me in relation to players we're trying to persuade to sign for us now. But perhaps I've taken you too literally there. Either way, let's hope you're right and we end up with 3 good CBs.
We are meant to be building a squad.
You don’t build a squad without competition for places.
That’s small club mentality.
If VdV or Tapsoba don’t back themselves to win their place, they are coming to the wrong club
I get your point, I do...but really we're wealthy enough to sign any player on that list. Money ain't the issue, the will (or lack thereof) is.
Also, if you never test the water, how are you ever gonna know whether such and such would play for you? Maybe if we showed them lads we got proper ambition to compete with the big boys, they'd be more inclined.
But fine, let's keep going for the B-list and having a top 4 finish as our Graal
Not my article
What 'shit show last summer'?
We got Bissouma, who most on here agreed was an excellent player.
We got Udogie, who appears to have a very bright future.
We got Richarlison, who whilst expensive, seemed to be about 50/50 on here in terms of him or Jesus, but most wanted us to sign one of them as striker back-up.
We took up the permanent option on Romero.
We got Forster who has proved an adeqaute back-up for Lloris.
We got Spence who most on here seemed to think was an excellent signing.
We got Perisic who most on here thought would thrive under Conte.
The only one most people were sceptical of was Lenglet.
Fast forward 9 months and we all agree that the season was a total disaster. Was that poor player purchases last summer? Was it failing to get rid of poor players, or failure to make them care more / try harder? Was it simply Conte's attitude, tactics or both? I'm not sure, everyone has a different opinion, but last summer's window, whilst not perfect, certainly didn't seem like a shitshow to any realistic posters on here. It didn't pan out well, but sometimes that happens. But it showed promise at the time. (Obviously the usual suspects will always criticise if we don't sign a couple of the world's best players, but i'm talking about the majority of fans on here, not those unrealistic ones).
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there are names on your list that are equally as getable as Tapsoba or even VdV.
Both have other suitors.
But we won’t get the ones on your list for the same reason Tapsoba was never happening
Or neither.
Did we wrap up the Vicario and Maddison deals in mere days, or didn't we?
Stop trying to find something to bitch about.
I think we all know the answer is No, he wouldn't.
And it puts to bed this utter nonsense of 'Why would So and So be happy to come here and keep the bench warm" that seems to be unique to Spurs and a section of our fanbase desperate to defend our woeful lack of ambition over the years.
I don't think he was pushing for it, Zaniolo was linked well before Conte came to the club.
2019
Nicolo Zaniolo to Spurs: The role of Toby Alderweireld in hunt for £46m man
The Roma midfielder has been linked with a move to North London
www.football.london
2020
Tottenham tracking promising Roma midfielder Nicolò Zaniolo
Juventus and Internazionale have also been linked with the 21-year-old Italian while Tottenham are confident they will sign Southampton’s Pierre-Emile Højbjerg
www.theguardian.com
Yes, but you buy players at the various levels you need them. Why do you think City were so keen on Kane 2 years ago, but not now? Because they have Haaland, and signing Kane as a central striker now then telling him and Haaland to fight for that top spot would never work, because Kane wouldn't go there on that basis. Even the very best clubs have 'next level down' players in their squads.
As I've said, I hope that VdV is happy to come here knowing that he won't necessarily start, and therefore we sign Tapsoba too, but as I've also said, it would be naive to think that that will necessarily be the case. As is often said on here, this isn't Football Manager and players are not inanimate objects (well, Dier is sometimes I suppose) to be picked up and put down as we see fit. They need to be comfortable that their expected role at their new club meets their expectations, otherwise they won't come.
Yep so it's puzzling why it would take 2 weeks to move for a signing we're really serious about.
has to be van de ven and tosin or tapsoba
i will rage if its lenglet another crap player we cant shift after a season
i will rage if its lenglet another crap player we cant shift after a season
He hasn't done himself any favours in this game.
It's a business. And we can only hope that they organize the football side well enough to win something one of these days.