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Transfers Summer Transfer Thread 2023! - Closed (Maybe)

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LeParisien said:
Most of that post was about conte. The only bit that wasn’t that light apply to conte is that the early signs were good.

The club has not really earned the fans’ trust so I get it (incidentally, I blame Levy for that). However there are a LOT of differences.

It was apparent that Mourinho had lost his magic. From the first few weeks it was clear nothing interesting was being worked on in training. This remained true several months in. People said “give him a preseason” and then it remained true the following season.

For Conte on day 1 there were reports about his patterns of play. He coaches by drilling players into patterns. Quotes of his saying when he playing midfield he didn’t like not knowing where to pass so he tried to make it clear to players exactly where the ball should go. There are pretty early signs that Conteball (remember that?) was having an effect. I’ll admit I got stars in my eyes and I hoped it would work, especially after a full preseason. The football in the entirety of his second season was a disappointment with NO signs of coaching going.

With Ange, everywhere he has been he has been uncompromising in his willingness to teach and learn and to play football with positional play and attacking principles. The team will grow and play more attractive football - I think we can be fairly certain of that.

We will see positive, front foot football AND evidence of work on the training field translating to games. We haven’t seen that at spurs since 2017/18.

What we can’t be certain about is whether that will translate into results.

Part of that is out of our control. Previous managers didn’t have to compete with 6 other teams at the top. The first time Conte did, he finished far below.

Some of it is in our control and we’ll have to see how the team responds to difficult moments. But there will be a sense of building something which is so important for motivation and so I think he will get the patience he deserves and unlike Conte, there’s a good chance he’s here in 2 years.
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Meh, nobody was complaining about positive football when we were smashing teams for 3 or 4 and our wing backs were bombing forward. Everyone was delighted, in fact. I was one of the people who pointed out at the start of last season that the performances didn’t match the results and got shouted down as apparently we were just holding out till the World Cup.

Fans are fickle. I’m hopeful we will see some fun stuff under Ange but if results are shit they’ll turn on him so quickly and the narrative will change from ‘we just want entertainment’ to ‘this is so naive, be more pragmatic!’ when we’re 4-0 down to Man City.

Fans wanted Jose and wanted Conte. A lot of them anyway, because they wanted results and trophies. Everyone fucking love Ange right now because we haven’t kicked a damn football and he’s larger than life. Wait for the first big defeat or Dier error and the knives will be out.

And I say this as a bit of an Ange convert. Initially I thought it was just a bit of a punt, but I do think he’s got a bit about him personality wise and I’m down for a bit of chaos. But I still piss my sides whenever I see people who went through the same process with Conte ((adoration>hatred)) doing it all over again.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Meh, nobody was complaining about positive football when we were smashing teams for 3 or 4 and our wing backs were bombing forward. Everyone was delighted, in fact. I was one of the people who pointed out at the start of last season that the performances didn’t match the results and got shouted down as apparently we were just holding out till the World Cup.

Fans are fickle.
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This is true
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Meh, nobody was complaining about positive football when we were smashing teams for 3 or 4 and our wing backs were bombing forward. Everyone was delighted, in fact. I was one of the people who pointed out at the start of last season that the performances didn’t match the results and got shouted down as apparently we were just holding out till the World Cup.

Fans are fickle. I’m hopeful we will see some fun stuff under Ange but if results are shit they’ll turn on him so quickly and the narrative will change from ‘we just want entertainment’ to ‘this is so naive, be more pragmatic!’ when we’re 4-0 down to Man City.

Fans wanted Jose and wanted Conte. A lot of them anyway, because they wanted results and trophies. Everyone fucking love Ange right now because we haven’t kicked a damn football and he’s larger than life. Wait for the first big defeat or Dier error and the knives will be out.

And I say this as a bit of an Ange convert. Initially I thought it was just a bit of a punt, but I do think he’s got a bit about him personality wise and I’m down for a bit of chaos. But I still piss my sides whenever I see people who went through the same process with Conte ((adoration>hatred)) doing it all over again.
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Yes - the thing with managers like Conte and Mourinho is that things are great if they’re winning. The second it stops they have nothing left and they become toxic.
 
Pathfinder said:
I won't hold my breath :D
Besides, Spurs already got 4 LBs (Udogie, Sessegnon, Reguilon, Perisic).

www.football365.com

Tottenham ready to sign £55m Chelsea flop who the club are 'desperate' to get rid of

Tottenham are reportedly stepping up their interest in Chelsea defender Marc Cucurella as Ange Postecoglou looks for a new left-sided defender.
www.football365.com www.football365.com
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And Ben Davies. How do we have five players you could label as a left back, yet feasibly feel confident in none of them heading into the season.
 
LeParisien said:
Yes - the thing with managers like Conte and Mourinho is that things are great if they’re winning. The second it stops they have nothing left and they become toxic.
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I think Ange has to be a better fit than Conte and mourinho who require the very best players to play their way .Neither were ever going to get those players with us .Ange should be used to working with a mixed bag and hopefully get the best out of them .
 
Steve73 said:
I see what you're saying but without Conte being able to stand on the players necks, (due to the aforementioned problems) and the injuries and subsequent loss of form to some who also regressed in mentality to some extent (which was his main point from his rant I think), we weren't able to improve our performances. At one time we had every forward player injured at the same time bar Kane - where's the creativity coming from?

The football wasn't pretty but give Ange the same players Conte had and he won't do any better in the league, I actually think we'd be lower than 4th. Conte played a pragmatic defence first system designed to protect the goal. We were poor defensively and lacking creativity so he played a system to maximize our strengths, mitigate our weaknesses and when he was fit, firing and focussed it worked.

This continued into last season when we had 23 points from the first 10 games before everything went wrong (death, injuries, illness).

Regarding Milan, yes they sussed us out by playing an equally pragmatic game that hinged on key moments, but outside of Kane, Son was woeful as was Kulu and the supporting cast weren't good enough or injured (Richy, Dan, Lucas). And Milan turned over a rampant Napoli next round which suggests they weren't as bad as many suggested.

The improvements planned for the squad now are vital because without them we're going backwards. Managers don't mold players from average to good, their technical ability, speed and intelligence are fixed by the time they are in their late teens - all they try and do is improve confidence, mentality and tactical awareness.
Ultimately we need better players - every player we had in the peak Poch era was better than what we had last season (bar the few who are the same). That's been our biggest problem since 2017 and until we address it, results generally won't change.
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Did conte make a creative midfielder a priority last summer? We made signings to CB, LWB, RWB, CM multiple times, ST, LW, RW…. We made a signing in pretty much every position but not a creative midfielder.

That’s good evidence a CM wasn’t a priority for conte.

It also fits with the fact that he played two midfielders. There’s no room for a creative midfielder on there.

The issue isn’t that Milan sussed us out. A lot of teams sussed us out. The issue is that Conte was unable to get the team playing on new patterns so his play was predictable. You could have the 11 best players in their position… if you play the same patterns then teams will suss you out.

I think your focus on players over systems is wrong. We had better players last year than the season before and we did a lot worse, particularly in defence. There are no doubt excuses or reasons but the problem was the system was predictable.
 
rolling boh said:
I think Ange has to be a better fit than Conte and mourinho who require the very best players to play their way .Neither were ever going to get those players with us .Ange should be used to working with a mixed bag and hopefully get the best out of them .
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I remember reading (or hearing?) that the Celtic fans suffered a few defeats at first but could see what Ange was trying to achieve so they were ok rolling with it.

Hope Deuterz Deuterz is wrong and we have his back through the potential early rough patch. I won't be surprised if many of us don't after the past few years of dross-ball coupled with the matchday ticket price hike.
 
Nuts said:
I remember reading (or hearing?) that the Celtic fans suffered a few defeats at first but could see what Ange was trying to achieve so they were ok rolling with it.

Hope Deuterz Deuterz is wrong and we have his back through the potential early rough patch. I won't be surprised if many of us don't after the past few years of dross-ball coupled with the matchday ticket price hike.
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Celtic Lost a few early games due to the fact they had lost some key players at the end of the season before and failed to replace them and were a bit of a shambles because of it. Ange had to do a fair bit before the window shut, they were playing well but letting in silly goals most notably in a defeat at Hearts but once CCV and Starfelt built a partnership they didnt look back
 
Nuts said:
Hope Deuterz Deuterz is wrong and we have his back through the potential early rough patch. I won't be surprised if many of us don't after the past few years of dross-ball coupled with the matchday ticket price hike
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Yeah, hopefully he'll hit the ground running in spite of Levy. If fans need to vent their anger, hopefully they'll continue to direct it at him. 🙏
I'm feeling pretty confident that will be the case. I would imagine Ange knows it too and that should hopefully lighten the pressure on his shoulders in those precarious first few months.
 
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