Man utd are miles off doing anything. They have a really poor squad that they have to shift a lot of deadwood.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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Man utd are miles off doing anything. They have a really poor squad that they have to shift a lot of deadwood.
Yes and that’s why I’m reacting to this current shitshow like this
Because I care and have done since 1961
Are you happy with this then?
Embarrassing for all of us on Sunday
Honestly mate, this is pathetic to me. Get a grip.
Look, you may be right.
But Fergie, Pep, Klopp and particularly Arteta all also struggled in their first seasons - I just don't know how you can be so determined - so sure of yourself - that Postecoglou is a busted flush.
It's a very toxic Spurs type approach imo.
But I say that as someone who wouldn't have sacked any of Spurs managers since Ramos... And mabye AVB...
Just weakness to me
They are playing shit because the system is utter gash you clown. So answer the question, who exact do you think is getting replaced in the side that will suddenly make Ange's ridiculous tactics start getting results? Our side is as strong as it gets barring us signing a couple of wide players and maybe a CM in the summer. The rest of the signings will be rotation back up options.
Chelsea are as rubbish as they have been for years and we didn't turn up. It's not just about the results anyway it's the performances and the fact we are so open, can't you see that?
PS! The photos didn't upload from this article...
theathletic.com
Analysing Celtic’s set-piece struggles: Lack of aggression, zonal marking and Hart not commanding his six-yard box
By Kieran Devlin
Feb 22, 2022
It keeps happening.
Celtic will be in complete control of a game, pressing well, dominating possession and limiting their opponents to half-chances. Then their opponents win a corner or a free kick in Celtic’s half. They score, and in an instant, all of Celtic’s control means nought.
It happened twice against Dundee at the weekend, nine times in league games this season, and 11 times in all competitions. Dundee only created an expected goals (xG) total of 0.14 against Celtic from open play; but Celtic’s level of control over the game does not matter when there is always the threat of dropped points because they cannot adequately defend dead-ball situations.
Celtic being poor at defending set pieces is not a new phenomenon. Speak to a spread of fans and they will have varying opinions on the last era in which Celtic were competent at this essential part of the game, some even harking as far back as Martin O’Neill and Gordon Strachan’s tenures in the 2000s.
But this season the poor track record is particularly pertinent because it is so clearly the continuing Achilles’ heel for Ange Postecoglou’s team. Almost everything else is going so well and there has been such significant progress in virtually every other aspect to the level of performance since the Australian took charge last summer, but set plays remain a problem.
That over half of the goals they have conceded in the league this season have come from set pieces — nine of 17 — is a double-edged sword. While it highlights how troubling Celtic’s record with set pieces is, it also underlines how decent their defensive record in open play is. Only conceding eight goals from open play in 27 games is a very respectable return. But, unfortunately, no prizes are handed out for defending well in open play. Set-piece goals matter as much as the rest.
The table below illustrates how many set-piece goals each Premiership side have scored and conceded in the league so far this season. Celtic are joint-second-bottom for set-piece goals conceded, with only Ross County having let in more.
They are also firmly mid-table for goals scored from set pieces, another alarming trend in itself given how Celtic tend to dominate the number of corners won in each game as the team most often on the front foot.
But the focus for this piece will be on the defending side. Watching all 11 goals, there are arguably three recurring issues that sees Celtic concede from set pieces: individuals’ lack of aggression in challenging for the ball, poor zonal marking and spatial awareness of opponents, and Joe Hart’s difficulties in commanding the six-yard box. Many of the goals overlap with two or even all three of these themes.
Lack of aggression in challenging for the ball
Celtic 3-2 Dundee, February 20
Firstly, the question of aggressiveness. The first example was the last goal Celtic conceded — their second against Dundee at the weekend, which made it 2-2. The ball is swung inside towards Celtic’s penalty spot and there are no fewer than seven Celtic players holding their line against three Dundee players looking to get on the end of the delivery.
The cross is an excellent one met by a fine header from Ryan Sweeney, but both Cameron Carter-Vickers and Carl Starfelt come off badly here. Carter-Vickers allows Sweeney to get in front of him too easily. Sweeney then outjumps Starfelt, who is unaware he is now behind him but too complacently tries to jump and meet the ball. Joe Hart also reacts slowly to the header, taking a second or so before beginning his dive to his right-hand post.
Aberdeen 2-3 Celtic, February 9
The first of two Lewis Ferguson goals as a result of outmuscling Celtic defenders, this incident is from earlier this month as Aberdeen (briefly) pulled level at Pittodrie. The cross is swung in towards the near post, with Daizen Maeda set up to cover the near side of the box in Celtic’s zonal marking set-up. Greg Taylor is behind him and nominally marking Ferguson.
Ferguson gets the better of Taylor, who is then brought down by Anthony Ralston trying to intervene and stop Ferguson’s leap, but it is too late and Ferguson’s header is steered into the far corner.
Hiberian 1-3 Celtic, October 27
Another game where Celtic are in complete control, cantering to a 3-0 lead after half an hour before a set-piece goal injects some unease. The outswinging corner is taken with height but not a lot of pace, so it should on paper represent an easier corner to defend. Celtic, however, struggle. Not only does Martin Boyle get the better of Tom Rogic in pushing in front of him and making contact, but Ryan Porteous also gets ahead of Carter-Vickers, so even if Boyle missed contact there could be a chance for Porteous.
As it is, Boyle steers the ball into the corner. While this goal was not explicitly Hart’s responsibility, this is the first of the five set pieces conceded where the final touch from the opposition player comes within his six-yard-box. He stays on his line and does not attempt to collect the ball.
Aberdeen 1-2 Celtic, October 3
The second in our “Ferguson showing greater aggression than Celtic players and heading equalisers as a result” mini-series. The out-swinging corner is executed with pace, but immediately three Aberdeen players — including Ferguson, against Nir Bitton — are in front of their markers, as illustrated below.
Bitton is not assertive enough, and Ferguson gets the better of him. But the poor football does not end there. The ball loops over a springing Adam Montgomery on the post, while Hart remains static. Hart could potentially challenge with Montgomery for the ball, but on the other hand he might risk injuring his team-mate. Nobody really comes off well here.
Aggression at set pieces is a complicated issue to address from a coaching perspective. It is almost as much a question of mentality as physicality or tactics. Potentially you could set up training drills with the objective of clearing set pieces under intense physical pressure as assertively as possible, and repeat that drill until it becomes a habit — or you look to sign one or two players for whom such aggression is natural. But we can only hypothesise as armchair managers on this topic.
Poor marking and concentration
Aberdeen 2-3 Celtic, February 9
A cop-out answer to why Celtic concede from so many set pieces is their zonal marking. The problem is not with zonal marking itself, which is used effectively by elite teams across Europe, but its execution and application. Concentration levels and spatial awareness at set pieces can be poor at times.
One example of lacklustre awareness is the first of Aberdeen’s goals a fortnight ago, when they grab the first of their goals back via a training-ground routine. Aberdeen block off Celtic players inside their own six-yard box, and the ball is rolled along the ground towards an onrushing Christian Ramirez…
…And with Celtic’s defensive line blocked off, and Filipe Jota ball-watching, Ramirez has ample room to place his shot into the bottom corner.
Rangers 1-0 Celtic, August 29
Celtic’s Old Firm defeat in August was another example of poor scanning. Rangers overload the far post, with Borna Barisic deliberately targeting that area with his corner. Starfelt is preoccupied with Connor Goldson, while Ralston is on Alfredo Morelos. Because Celtic are set up zonally, there is nobody noticing Filip Helander charging into the box — while, noticeably, Callum McGregor and Liel Abada are marking no one in their respective zones.
Helander, unchallenged, heads the ball powerfully into the far corner.
Hearts 2-1 Celtic, July 31
Postecoglou’s first league game as manager exhibited plenty of growing pains, and the efficiency of the set-piece marking was one of them.
When the ball is floated in, there are three Hearts players between Bitton and Starfelt; John Souttar, Stephen Kingsley, and Peter Haring. It is a confused defensive line with no clear allocation of who is marking whom. Scott Bain’s positioning is strange as well, seemingly thinking about coming out to retrieve the ball but is caught in two minds.
Souttar gets to the ball ahead of Bitton and heads the ball past Bain in no man’s land. Even if Souttar did not make contact, Kingsley or Haring could have instead. The marking is uncoordinated.
Bayer Leverkusen 3-2 Celtic, November 25
Leverkusen’s first goal in their 3-2 win at BayArena was a hybrid of the Aberdeen training ground set play and Rangers’ overloading at the backpost. Robert Andrich is unmarked at the edge of the box once the corner is taken, but begins his sprint towards the six-yard box. Jonathan Tah is blocking off Stephen Welsh, with Welsh virtually the only Celtic player who could both spot Andrich’s run and intercept it.
Welsh is too busy with Tah, and Jospi Juranovic and McGregor are static in their empty zones. Andrich gets a free header inside Hart’s six-yard box. Like with Helander’s goal, it is difficult to beat an opposition player in the air when you are standing still and they have so much momentum behind them from their running jump. It is more effective to stop that run in the first place, and Celtic were blind to Andrich’s.
Many of these mistakes could be rectified. Potentially a more flexible approach to zonal marking would be to adjust to one area being overloaded by the opposition when you have one or two free men in another zone. A lot of it comes down to individuals’ concentration levels as well though, needing to stay utterly focused and alert to movement around you.
Hart not commanding his six-yard box
Celtic 3-2 Dundee, February 20
This is a growing problem since December, with Dundee’s opening goal on Sunday the latest example. Their out-swinging corner is at a reasonable pace to step out and collect…
…But Hart leaves it, the ball bounces in front of and beyond Reo Hatate, and an unmarked Danny Mullen can fire it in at the back post with Matt O’Riley preoccupied.
Celtic 2-1 Hibernian, December 19
Hibs’ opener in the League Cup final was another example. Starfelt loses Paul Hanlon and is at fault for allowing him a clear run towards the delivery. But, again, the cross is at a fairly gentle pace and is well within Celtic’s six-yard-box, and Starfelt’s error may not have proved costly with proactive goalkeeping.
Hart stays on his line, and Hanlon can leap and head the ball in from close range.
Ross County 1-2 Celtic, December 15
Ross County’s equaliser in that dramatic midweek game at Dingwall that concluded with Ralston’s own headed winner. The ball is floated in and James Baldwin stabs it home.
Again, Starfelt allows Baldwin in front of him; and again, it should not matter, because Baldwin makes contact four yards from goal. This is not to excuse Starfelt’s error, but opposition players get ahead of markers many times during games, and if mistakes elsewhere at the set piece are kept to a minimum it reduces the likelihood of a goal. The bigger error here is Hart not being assertive and collecting the cross.
A further reason why this is concerning is that opposition analysts at other clubs will be noticing this as well. They will be pinpointing it as a potential weak spot to exploit in future Celtic encounters. They might only have 30 per cent possession and three shots on goal in open play, but if they play for corners and instruct the corner-takers to swing their deliveries into the six-yard box they can be confident Hart might not attempt to collect it — and deliveries into the six-yard box are far more dangerous than those directed towards the penalty spot.
This is not to take anything away from what Hart has done at Celtic. He has made important saves in big games, worked hard to adjust to Postecoglou’s playing out from the back, and become an important leader and role model in the dressing room. But this remaining on his line is costing Celtic goals.
With the margins in the title race so thin, more sloppy defending at set pieces — whether it is lack of aggression, poor concentration levels, or not commanding the six-yard box — could prove costly.
Preferences
Analysing Celtic's set-piece struggles: Lack of aggression, zonal marking and Hart not commanding his six-yard box
Half of the goals that Celtic have conceded in the league this season have come from set pieces, and teams will be targeting their weakness
theathletic.com
Analysing Celtic’s set-piece struggles: Lack of aggression, zonal marking and Hart not commanding his six-yard box
By Kieran Devlin
Feb 22, 2022
Celtic will be in complete control of a game, pressing well, dominating possession and limiting their opponents to half-chances. Then their opponents win a corner or a free kick in Celtic’s half. They score, and in an instant, all of Celtic’s control means nought.
It happened twice against Dundee at the weekend, nine times in league games this season, and 11 times in all competitions. Dundee only created an expected goals (xG) total of 0.14 against Celtic from open play; but Celtic’s level of control over the game does not matter when there is always the threat of dropped points because they cannot adequately defend dead-ball situations.
Celtic being poor at defending set pieces is not a new phenomenon. Speak to a spread of fans and they will have varying opinions on the last era in which Celtic were competent at this essential part of the game, some even harking as far back as Martin O’Neill and Gordon Strachan’s tenures in the 2000s.
But this season the poor track record is particularly pertinent because it is so clearly the continuing Achilles’ heel for Ange Postecoglou’s team. Almost everything else is going so well and there has been such significant progress in virtually every other aspect to the level of performance since the Australian took charge last summer, but set plays remain a problem.
That over half of the goals they have conceded in the league this season have come from set pieces — nine of 17 — is a double-edged sword. While it highlights how troubling Celtic’s record with set pieces is, it also underlines how decent their defensive record in open play is. Only conceding eight goals from open play in 27 games is a very respectable return. But, unfortunately, no prizes are handed out for defending well in open play. Set-piece goals matter as much as the rest.
The table below illustrates how many set-piece goals each Premiership side have scored and conceded in the league so far this season. Celtic are joint-second-bottom for set-piece goals conceded, with only Ross County having let in more.
They are also firmly mid-table for goals scored from set pieces, another alarming trend in itself given how Celtic tend to dominate the number of corners won in each game as the team most often on the front foot.
But the focus for this piece will be on the defending side. Watching all 11 goals, there are arguably three recurring issues that sees Celtic concede from set pieces: individuals’ lack of aggression in challenging for the ball, poor zonal marking and spatial awareness of opponents, and Joe Hart’s difficulties in commanding the six-yard box. Many of the goals overlap with two or even all three of these themes.
Celtic 3-2 Dundee, February 20
Firstly, the question of aggressiveness. The first example was the last goal Celtic conceded — their second against Dundee at the weekend, which made it 2-2. The ball is swung inside towards Celtic’s penalty spot and there are no fewer than seven Celtic players holding their line against three Dundee players looking to get on the end of the delivery.
The cross is an excellent one met by a fine header from Ryan Sweeney, but both Cameron Carter-Vickers and Carl Starfelt come off badly here. Carter-Vickers allows Sweeney to get in front of him too easily. Sweeney then outjumps Starfelt, who is unaware he is now behind him but too complacently tries to jump and meet the ball. Joe Hart also reacts slowly to the header, taking a second or so before beginning his dive to his right-hand post.
Aberdeen 2-3 Celtic, February 9
The first of two Lewis Ferguson goals as a result of outmuscling Celtic defenders, this incident is from earlier this month as Aberdeen (briefly) pulled level at Pittodrie. The cross is swung in towards the near post, with Daizen Maeda set up to cover the near side of the box in Celtic’s zonal marking set-up. Greg Taylor is behind him and nominally marking Ferguson.
Ferguson gets the better of Taylor, who is then brought down by Anthony Ralston trying to intervene and stop Ferguson’s leap, but it is too late and Ferguson’s header is steered into the far corner.
Hiberian 1-3 Celtic, October 27
Another game where Celtic are in complete control, cantering to a 3-0 lead after half an hour before a set-piece goal injects some unease. The outswinging corner is taken with height but not a lot of pace, so it should on paper represent an easier corner to defend. Celtic, however, struggle. Not only does Martin Boyle get the better of Tom Rogic in pushing in front of him and making contact, but Ryan Porteous also gets ahead of Carter-Vickers, so even if Boyle missed contact there could be a chance for Porteous.
As it is, Boyle steers the ball into the corner. While this goal was not explicitly Hart’s responsibility, this is the first of the five set pieces conceded where the final touch from the opposition player comes within his six-yard-box. He stays on his line and does not attempt to collect the ball.
Aberdeen 1-2 Celtic, October 3
The second in our “Ferguson showing greater aggression than Celtic players and heading equalisers as a result” mini-series. The out-swinging corner is executed with pace, but immediately three Aberdeen players — including Ferguson, against Nir Bitton — are in front of their markers, as illustrated below.
Bitton is not assertive enough, and Ferguson gets the better of him. But the poor football does not end there. The ball loops over a springing Adam Montgomery on the post, while Hart remains static. Hart could potentially challenge with Montgomery for the ball, but on the other hand he might risk injuring his team-mate. Nobody really comes off well here.
Aggression at set pieces is a complicated issue to address from a coaching perspective. It is almost as much a question of mentality as physicality or tactics. Potentially you could set up training drills with the objective of clearing set pieces under intense physical pressure as assertively as possible, and repeat that drill until it becomes a habit — or you look to sign one or two players for whom such aggression is natural. But we can only hypothesise as armchair managers on this topic.
Aberdeen 2-3 Celtic, February 9
A cop-out answer to why Celtic concede from so many set pieces is their zonal marking. The problem is not with zonal marking itself, which is used effectively by elite teams across Europe, but its execution and application. Concentration levels and spatial awareness at set pieces can be poor at times.
One example of lacklustre awareness is the first of Aberdeen’s goals a fortnight ago, when they grab the first of their goals back via a training-ground routine. Aberdeen block off Celtic players inside their own six-yard box, and the ball is rolled along the ground towards an onrushing Christian Ramirez…
…And with Celtic’s defensive line blocked off, and Filipe Jota ball-watching, Ramirez has ample room to place his shot into the bottom corner.
Rangers 1-0 Celtic, August 29
Celtic’s Old Firm defeat in August was another example of poor scanning. Rangers overload the far post, with Borna Barisic deliberately targeting that area with his corner. Starfelt is preoccupied with Connor Goldson, while Ralston is on Alfredo Morelos. Because Celtic are set up zonally, there is nobody noticing Filip Helander charging into the box — while, noticeably, Callum McGregor and Liel Abada are marking no one in their respective zones.
Helander, unchallenged, heads the ball powerfully into the far corner.
Hearts 2-1 Celtic, July 31
Postecoglou’s first league game as manager exhibited plenty of growing pains, and the efficiency of the set-piece marking was one of them.
When the ball is floated in, there are three Hearts players between Bitton and Starfelt; John Souttar, Stephen Kingsley, and Peter Haring. It is a confused defensive line with no clear allocation of who is marking whom. Scott Bain’s positioning is strange as well, seemingly thinking about coming out to retrieve the ball but is caught in two minds.
Souttar gets to the ball ahead of Bitton and heads the ball past Bain in no man’s land. Even if Souttar did not make contact, Kingsley or Haring could have instead. The marking is uncoordinated.
Bayer Leverkusen 3-2 Celtic, November 25
Leverkusen’s first goal in their 3-2 win at BayArena was a hybrid of the Aberdeen training ground set play and Rangers’ overloading at the backpost. Robert Andrich is unmarked at the edge of the box once the corner is taken, but begins his sprint towards the six-yard box. Jonathan Tah is blocking off Stephen Welsh, with Welsh virtually the only Celtic player who could both spot Andrich’s run and intercept it.
Welsh is too busy with Tah, and Jospi Juranovic and McGregor are static in their empty zones. Andrich gets a free header inside Hart’s six-yard box. Like with Helander’s goal, it is difficult to beat an opposition player in the air when you are standing still and they have so much momentum behind them from their running jump. It is more effective to stop that run in the first place, and Celtic were blind to Andrich’s.
Many of these mistakes could be rectified. Potentially a more flexible approach to zonal marking would be to adjust to one area being overloaded by the opposition when you have one or two free men in another zone. A lot of it comes down to individuals’ concentration levels as well though, needing to stay utterly focused and alert to movement around you.
Celtic 3-2 Dundee, February 20
This is a growing problem since December, with Dundee’s opening goal on Sunday the latest example. Their out-swinging corner is at a reasonable pace to step out and collect…
…But Hart leaves it, the ball bounces in front of and beyond Reo Hatate, and an unmarked Danny Mullen can fire it in at the back post with Matt O’Riley preoccupied.
Celtic 2-1 Hibernian, December 19
Hibs’ opener in the League Cup final was another example. Starfelt loses Paul Hanlon and is at fault for allowing him a clear run towards the delivery. But, again, the cross is at a fairly gentle pace and is well within Celtic’s six-yard-box, and Starfelt’s error may not have proved costly with proactive goalkeeping.
Hart stays on his line, and Hanlon can leap and head the ball in from close range.
Ross County 1-2 Celtic, December 15
Ross County’s equaliser in that dramatic midweek game at Dingwall that concluded with Ralston’s own headed winner. The ball is floated in and James Baldwin stabs it home.
Again, Starfelt allows Baldwin in front of him; and again, it should not matter, because Baldwin makes contact four yards from goal. This is not to excuse Starfelt’s error, but opposition players get ahead of markers many times during games, and if mistakes elsewhere at the set piece are kept to a minimum it reduces the likelihood of a goal. The bigger error here is Hart not being assertive and collecting the cross.
A further reason why this is concerning is that opposition analysts at other clubs will be noticing this as well. They will be pinpointing it as a potential weak spot to exploit in future Celtic encounters. They might only have 30 per cent possession and three shots on goal in open play, but if they play for corners and instruct the corner-takers to swing their deliveries into the six-yard box they can be confident Hart might not attempt to collect it — and deliveries into the six-yard box are far more dangerous than those directed towards the penalty spot.
This is not to take anything away from what Hart has done at Celtic. He has made important saves in big games, worked hard to adjust to Postecoglou’s playing out from the back, and become an important leader and role model in the dressing room. But this remaining on his line is costing Celtic goals.
With the margins in the title race so thin, more sloppy defending at set pieces — whether it is lack of aggression, poor concentration levels, or not commanding the six-yard box — could prove costly.
Preferences
It was rhetorical because it's obvious
Pep finished 3rd. They were defensively vulnerable but extremely fun to watch all season long and they improved as the campaign went on. It was a poor season by Pep's standards but they were never anything like as bad as we have been since the first 10 games. Albeit with much more resources.
Klopp took over a team I'd legitimately only want 3-4 players from. It was dreadful. I don't rate our squad that highly but its a hell of a lot better than the side Klopp had to work with. And even then they had a Europa League final with the Dortmund win etc. The team clearly believed in him, they just weren't good enough. In that final they started Clyne, Can, Milner, Lallana, Moreno, Mignolet Toure and Lovren. Klopp hadn't had a transfer window.
Arteta was a kid. I don't know why fans want to compare our extremely seasoned coach to a kid. It was Arteta's first managerial job, the expectation was that he had shit loads to learn. The hiring of Ange isn't very similar and Arteta survived mainly due to trophy success. We've been a non-entity in cup competitions this season.
I'm still pro Ange staying on - this club needs consistency, I'm sick of managers becoming the fall guy for a terribly run club. But I really wish people would stop acting like the season we've had is anything like the seasons these other coaches had.
Didn't even realise there was a question in your post, just said nah cause I didn't agree and can't be arsed to explain tbh
In the premier league Ange has more points from the same number of games as Arteta and Klopp.
It’s far from perfect but it’s also been way more promising than just 10 games.
That’s just overly simplified negative narrative spin.
Did any of those teams lose the best the striker in the world 2 days before the start of the season?
I'm sorry but there is a good and obvious comparison with all of those managers and it's simply this: it takes time to impose your vision and game plan on your squad AND YOUR FANBASE.
I'm sick to death of this toxic fanbase sacking every single fucking manager at the first sign of struggle. It's boring now.
I watched this and just as I thought it was pretty obvious anyway but the opps don't rate our wide players so they leave them free, defend narrow in 2 banks of 4 and make us play through the middle where there's no space hence why the ball keeps coming back.
We've probably lost a lot of confidence in the system since the beginning of the season so players are 2nd guessing their roles/tactics, there was loads of loose passes trying to break Liverpool's press and made silly decisions giving the ball away in dangerous areas.
I think people are right to say that Ange has been found out but that doesn't mean the tactics are broken, it means the personnel needs to improve, starting with the wingers.
Ange ball is incredibly risky football and probably the most riskiest tactic any manager has done in the Prem bar Bielsa and probably De Zerbi, it will only go so far if you don't have the right profiles to play it.
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Yeah, I mean, we got relegated this season by keeping Ange.
Ange lost a player. He also got a large amount of money spent on players, and then another load of money spent in January. We signed a handful of players for the starting XI. Presumably his players, ones he wanted.
Pep and Klopp imposed their vision from day fucking one. They got to finals, competed, progressed in a relatively linear way. Arteta didn't but again - A CHILD in managerial terms. And he still won an FA cup first season.
Fans don't sack anyone. If they did, Ten Haag would've been out months ago. Arteta wouldn't have survived at all. Chairmen sack managers.