I'm talking being employed by THFC past the end of this calendar year.
I'd be surprised if he starts next season tbh.
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
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I'd be surprised if he starts next season tbh.
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I'm sorry but this is bullshit. He sacked Conte when Stellini was more likely to take us down. He sacked Mourinho when Mason was more likely to take us down. Sacking Ange doesn't mean the next caretaker manager half-way through the season is going to be any better.
Last season was NOT normal season.
We'll never see it happen as Levy won't let it.
But plenty of teams have tried to give dead in the water managers time and gone down for it. Newcastle, Villa, Spam. All far too big to be relegated but it happened.
You could also add Poch to those that struggled early on
I’m just fed up seeing the same crap week after week under a manager who won’t change things because he’s always right
I can take getting beaten by a better side but what we’re seeing now is toxic crap with the players not knowing what to do led a by a manager who doesn’t either!
Chavs, Woolwich , Newcastle and the Dippers have all beaten us convincingly recently and we’ve shipped 13 goals!
Unacceptable and I would have thought that view would be shared by any true Spurs fan!
He doesn’t deserve to start neither do genuine Spurs fans have to suffer anymore of his crap tactics!
If what you are trying to do has been figured out by your competition how is the first thought "well these players just aren't good enough" even though that completely contradicts the beginning of the season. You just can't get away with scapegoating the players ability all the time because it's objectively true that they were performing well under the system earlier. That argument just doesn't cut it, it's more complex than that.
One thing you can question is their mentality. These players were on a media PR campaign left right and centre at the beginning of the season talking about how amazing Ange is and how much they enjoy football under him. It was becoming cringey with the Sky Sports BTS interviews and all the Instagram posts. These players were 100% onboard and they have simply become lost because they have actually started to face tactical resistance from other teams and their manager clearly doesn't have the answers to this. This is where I believe the crux of the problem is. Ange has a monstrously disagreeable personality which he admits to with pride, so when he's clearly been exposed as having tactical flaws and doesn't want to acknowledge it when faced with unsurmountable evidence, at some point you're going to think your manager as a bit of a twat. This will inevitably change your willingness to fight for him. In Ange's post match press conference he said the performance towards the end with the two goals "were something to work with" . Interesting, we have the lowest long ball stats in the league yet when our backline starting pinging balls over to Richie we actually looked threatening. That "something to work with" was IN SPITE of Ange's instructions. These players are paid professionals and should ultimately do their job follow instruction. Like wise Ange is being paid to find solutions to on-field problems with his current resources and not cross his arms until the summer transfer window.
The only reason we didn't get to see us lift the Premier League in 2017 was because some manager we know all too well named Antonio decided to switch to a back three after getting battered 3-0 by the scum and never looked back. One tweak changed the entire tactical landscape of England with every team copying it ever since. Ange isn't even willing to switch up set piece management. The whole "project" has become toxic because there are apparently a few bellends on the pitch and one on the touchline but the true bellend is sat in the sky lounge at Hotspur way.
What fucking tactics?
"It's who we are mate" isn't a tactic.
"Pass the ball mate" isn't a tactic.
"We won on possession mate" isn't a tactic.
Neither is he saying that we played better in the last 20 minutes and not mentioning that we had already shipped 4 goals in an embarrassing display of tactical naivety!
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I think he'll start next season. Only minimal chance he doesnt if we lose all our remaining 3 or maybe just pick up a point and finish 7th. Getting past the calender year a very different story.
You can’t address one single point that I made then?
All very simple I would have thought?
Just weakness???
Oh you mean Ange trying to manage a PL side ?
Got you Bro!
Glad we cleared that one up
And that’s the problem
If he starts next season and it’s a big if imv then it’s another season down the drain and we’ll be hunting around for a bargain basement manager at Xmas
ETH
Moyes anyone?
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I mean, you can sit here and say we are going to be relegated when we have had above average players for the past 16 seasons, but it doesn't mean I have to listen to that bullshit. The last time we finished bottom half of the league was 17 seasons ago. And no, it wasn't because of the managers. It was because Levy sold the likes of Carrick, Berbatov, and Keane and didn't replace them well enough.
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There are some truly fucking idiots on this forum!!
Just some healthy debate from opinionated posters with opposing views!
No cunt offs yet though……
TLDR?PS! The photos didn't upload from this article...
Analysing Celtic's set-piece struggles: Lack of aggression, zonal marking and Hart not commanding his six-yard box
Half of the goals that Celtic have conceded in the league this season have come from set pieces, and teams will be targeting their weaknesstheathletic.com
Analysing Celtic’s set-piece struggles: Lack of aggression, zonal marking and Hart not commanding his six-yard box
By Kieran Devlin
Feb 22, 2022
It keeps happening.
Celtic will be in complete control of a game, pressing well, dominating possession and limiting their opponents to half-chances. Then their opponents win a corner or a free kick in Celtic’s half. They score, and in an instant, all of Celtic’s control means nought.
It happened twice against Dundee at the weekend, nine times in league games this season, and 11 times in all competitions. Dundee only created an expected goals (xG) total of 0.14 against Celtic from open play; but Celtic’s level of control over the game does not matter when there is always the threat of dropped points because they cannot adequately defend dead-ball situations.
Celtic being poor at defending set pieces is not a new phenomenon. Speak to a spread of fans and they will have varying opinions on the last era in which Celtic were competent at this essential part of the game, some even harking as far back as Martin O’Neill and Gordon Strachan’s tenures in the 2000s.
But this season the poor track record is particularly pertinent because it is so clearly the continuing Achilles’ heel for Ange Postecoglou’s team. Almost everything else is going so well and there has been such significant progress in virtually every other aspect to the level of performance since the Australian took charge last summer, but set plays remain a problem.
That over half of the goals they have conceded in the league this season have come from set pieces — nine of 17 — is a double-edged sword. While it highlights how troubling Celtic’s record with set pieces is, it also underlines how decent their defensive record in open play is. Only conceding eight goals from open play in 27 games is a very respectable return. But, unfortunately, no prizes are handed out for defending well in open play. Set-piece goals matter as much as the rest.
The table below illustrates how many set-piece goals each Premiership side have scored and conceded in the league so far this season. Celtic are joint-second-bottom for set-piece goals conceded, with only Ross County having let in more.
They are also firmly mid-table for goals scored from set pieces, another alarming trend in itself given how Celtic tend to dominate the number of corners won in each game as the team most often on the front foot.
But the focus for this piece will be on the defending side. Watching all 11 goals, there are arguably three recurring issues that sees Celtic concede from set pieces: individuals’ lack of aggression in challenging for the ball, poor zonal marking and spatial awareness of opponents, and Joe Hart’s difficulties in commanding the six-yard box. Many of the goals overlap with two or even all three of these themes.
Lack of aggression in challenging for the ball
Celtic 3-2 Dundee, February 20
Firstly, the question of aggressiveness. The first example was the last goal Celtic conceded — their second against Dundee at the weekend, which made it 2-2. The ball is swung inside towards Celtic’s penalty spot and there are no fewer than seven Celtic players holding their line against three Dundee players looking to get on the end of the delivery.
The cross is an excellent one met by a fine header from Ryan Sweeney, but both Cameron Carter-Vickers and Carl Starfelt come off badly here. Carter-Vickers allows Sweeney to get in front of him too easily. Sweeney then outjumps Starfelt, who is unaware he is now behind him but too complacently tries to jump and meet the ball. Joe Hart also reacts slowly to the header, taking a second or so before beginning his dive to his right-hand post.
Aberdeen 2-3 Celtic, February 9
The first of two Lewis Ferguson goals as a result of outmuscling Celtic defenders, this incident is from earlier this month as Aberdeen (briefly) pulled level at Pittodrie. The cross is swung in towards the near post, with Daizen Maeda set up to cover the near side of the box in Celtic’s zonal marking set-up. Greg Taylor is behind him and nominally marking Ferguson.
Ferguson gets the better of Taylor, who is then brought down by Anthony Ralston trying to intervene and stop Ferguson’s leap, but it is too late and Ferguson’s header is steered into the far corner.
Hiberian 1-3 Celtic, October 27
Another game where Celtic are in complete control, cantering to a 3-0 lead after half an hour before a set-piece goal injects some unease. The outswinging corner is taken with height but not a lot of pace, so it should on paper represent an easier corner to defend. Celtic, however, struggle. Not only does Martin Boyle get the better of Tom Rogic in pushing in front of him and making contact, but Ryan Porteous also gets ahead of Carter-Vickers, so even if Boyle missed contact there could be a chance for Porteous.
As it is, Boyle steers the ball into the corner. While this goal was not explicitly Hart’s responsibility, this is the first of the five set pieces conceded where the final touch from the opposition player comes within his six-yard-box. He stays on his line and does not attempt to collect the ball.
Aberdeen 1-2 Celtic, October 3
The second in our “Ferguson showing greater aggression than Celtic players and heading equalisers as a result” mini-series. The out-swinging corner is executed with pace, but immediately three Aberdeen players — including Ferguson, against Nir Bitton — are in front of their markers, as illustrated below.
Bitton is not assertive enough, and Ferguson gets the better of him. But the poor football does not end there. The ball loops over a springing Adam Montgomery on the post, while Hart remains static. Hart could potentially challenge with Montgomery for the ball, but on the other hand he might risk injuring his team-mate. Nobody really comes off well here.
Aggression at set pieces is a complicated issue to address from a coaching perspective. It is almost as much a question of mentality as physicality or tactics. Potentially you could set up training drills with the objective of clearing set pieces under intense physical pressure as assertively as possible, and repeat that drill until it becomes a habit — or you look to sign one or two players for whom such aggression is natural. But we can only hypothesise as armchair managers on this topic.
Poor marking and concentration
Aberdeen 2-3 Celtic, February 9
A cop-out answer to why Celtic concede from so many set pieces is their zonal marking. The problem is not with zonal marking itself, which is used effectively by elite teams across Europe, but its execution and application. Concentration levels and spatial awareness at set pieces can be poor at times.
One example of lacklustre awareness is the first of Aberdeen’s goals a fortnight ago, when they grab the first of their goals back via a training-ground routine. Aberdeen block off Celtic players inside their own six-yard box, and the ball is rolled along the ground towards an onrushing Christian Ramirez…
…And with Celtic’s defensive line blocked off, and Filipe Jota ball-watching, Ramirez has ample room to place his shot into the bottom corner.
Rangers 1-0 Celtic, August 29
Celtic’s Old Firm defeat in August was another example of poor scanning. Rangers overload the far post, with Borna Barisic deliberately targeting that area with his corner. Starfelt is preoccupied with Connor Goldson, while Ralston is on Alfredo Morelos. Because Celtic are set up zonally, there is nobody noticing Filip Helander charging into the box — while, noticeably, Callum McGregor and Liel Abada are marking no one in their respective zones.
Helander, unchallenged, heads the ball powerfully into the far corner.
Hearts 2-1 Celtic, July 31
Postecoglou’s first league game as manager exhibited plenty of growing pains, and the efficiency of the set-piece marking was one of them.
When the ball is floated in, there are three Hearts players between Bitton and Starfelt; John Souttar, Stephen Kingsley, and Peter Haring. It is a confused defensive line with no clear allocation of who is marking whom. Scott Bain’s positioning is strange as well, seemingly thinking about coming out to retrieve the ball but is caught in two minds.
Souttar gets to the ball ahead of Bitton and heads the ball past Bain in no man’s land. Even if Souttar did not make contact, Kingsley or Haring could have instead. The marking is uncoordinated.
Bayer Leverkusen 3-2 Celtic, November 25
Leverkusen’s first goal in their 3-2 win at BayArena was a hybrid of the Aberdeen training ground set play and Rangers’ overloading at the backpost. Robert Andrich is unmarked at the edge of the box once the corner is taken, but begins his sprint towards the six-yard box. Jonathan Tah is blocking off Stephen Welsh, with Welsh virtually the only Celtic player who could both spot Andrich’s run and intercept it.
Welsh is too busy with Tah, and Jospi Juranovic and McGregor are static in their empty zones. Andrich gets a free header inside Hart’s six-yard box. Like with Helander’s goal, it is difficult to beat an opposition player in the air when you are standing still and they have so much momentum behind them from their running jump. It is more effective to stop that run in the first place, and Celtic were blind to Andrich’s.
Many of these mistakes could be rectified. Potentially a more flexible approach to zonal marking would be to adjust to one area being overloaded by the opposition when you have one or two free men in another zone. A lot of it comes down to individuals’ concentration levels as well though, needing to stay utterly focused and alert to movement around you.
Hart not commanding his six-yard box
Celtic 3-2 Dundee, February 20
This is a growing problem since December, with Dundee’s opening goal on Sunday the latest example. Their out-swinging corner is at a reasonable pace to step out and collect…
…But Hart leaves it, the ball bounces in front of and beyond Reo Hatate, and an unmarked Danny Mullen can fire it in at the back post with Matt O’Riley preoccupied.
Celtic 2-1 Hibernian, December 19
Hibs’ opener in the League Cup final was another example. Starfelt loses Paul Hanlon and is at fault for allowing him a clear run towards the delivery. But, again, the cross is at a fairly gentle pace and is well within Celtic’s six-yard-box, and Starfelt’s error may not have proved costly with proactive goalkeeping.
Hart stays on his line, and Hanlon can leap and head the ball in from close range.
Ross County 1-2 Celtic, December 15
Ross County’s equaliser in that dramatic midweek game at Dingwall that concluded with Ralston’s own headed winner. The ball is floated in and James Baldwin stabs it home.
Again, Starfelt allows Baldwin in front of him; and again, it should not matter, because Baldwin makes contact four yards from goal. This is not to excuse Starfelt’s error, but opposition players get ahead of markers many times during games, and if mistakes elsewhere at the set piece are kept to a minimum it reduces the likelihood of a goal. The bigger error here is Hart not being assertive and collecting the cross.
A further reason why this is concerning is that opposition analysts at other clubs will be noticing this as well. They will be pinpointing it as a potential weak spot to exploit in future Celtic encounters. They might only have 30 per cent possession and three shots on goal in open play, but if they play for corners and instruct the corner-takers to swing their deliveries into the six-yard box they can be confident Hart might not attempt to collect it — and deliveries into the six-yard box are far more dangerous than those directed towards the penalty spot.
This is not to take anything away from what Hart has done at Celtic. He has made important saves in big games, worked hard to adjust to Postecoglou’s playing out from the back, and become an important leader and role model in the dressing room. But this remaining on his line is costing Celtic goals.
With the margins in the title race so thin, more sloppy defending at set pieces — whether it is lack of aggression, poor concentration levels, or not commanding the six-yard box — could prove costly.
Preferences
Clearly it's fallen off badly at the end of the season but I just find it bizarre that anyone thinks they know for certain that we can't build on the promise and results and playing style of the first half of the year after a reset in summer.
We can't keep sacking managers at the first sign of trouble. He gets at least another full year unless we're in relegation trouble. Surely that's obvious?
Relegation trouble!
Good Grief. Are really now setting the bar as low as that?
The problem I have is that these very same players were executing the football at the start of the season, will replacing these players really fix the issues with the system?
If teams have indeed figured it out and Ange keeps us playing the same way (which I think he will because he's stubborn) will it make a difference if we have a higher quality player? Or is it simply a case of Ange and his style being too naive for the PL?
I personally think it might be the latter but I also think we need improvements to the team, regardless of the manager in charge.