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Transfers Summer Transfer thread - 2024

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How Dry should our Powder be?

  • Total voters
    57
LeParisien said:
We also need a better Maddison (or if not an Eze…). That would unlock a lot of attacking potential and he’s been poor for all but 3 months.

People don’t like to hear this but Son was underwhelming for his first couple of years in a shirt. It wasn’t a given that he would stay. He showed flashes of extreme quality but a lot more nothingness.

I’m tired of people prematurely writing off players. Johnson may or not make it but progression paths are very hard to assess. I’d love if we got behind our players a bit more - at least give them time.
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they are good players but it’s not just about proving yourself it’s balance. Son and Johnson are great goal scorers. Once we have better attacking balance they will shine more.

Our attack for balance needs

CF: Centre forward as a focal point which we have now with Solanke

GSW: goal scoring winger, someone always looking to get goals and gets into the box

BUW: build up winger, someone who dribbles well, beats players, links and presses when not in possession to an elite level. There is probably a better name for this but you get what I mean.

First attack

Son (GSW) Solanke (CF) New RW (BUW)

Second attack

Werner/Moore (BUW) Richarlison (CF) Johnson (GSW)
 
LeParisien said:
Do you think Johnson has hit his ceiling as a footballer?
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You've answered my question with a question which is apparently frowned upon in these parts eh Ionman34 Ionman34 but nonetheless I can handle it and will answer without resorting to name calling.

I think he will never be better technically than he is now at 23 years of age so he has hit his ceiling in that aspect. He can definitely improve in his decision making in terms of his movement off the ball and what to do with the ball when he gets it but unfortunately for him/us, the decision making can be perfect but as long as his technical execution is lacking, it won't be good enough for a team wanting to win and compete at the highest level which is what I assume we all want?
 
Tomo said:
they are good players but it’s not just about proving yourself it’s balance. Son and Johnson are great goal scorers. Once we have better attacking balance they will shine more.

Our attack for balance needs

CF: Centre forward as a focal point which we have now with Solanke

GSW: goal scoring winger, someone always looking to get goals and gets into the box

BUW: build up winger, someone who dribbles well, beats players, links and presses when not in possession to an elite level. There is probably a better name for this but you get what I mean.

First attack

Son (GSW) Solanke (CF) New RW (BUW)

Second attack

Werner/Moore (BUW) Richarlison (CF) Johnson (GSW)
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This is spot on. It’s the blend of different skillsets that makes a balanced attack.
 
Tomo said:
Johnson is a great player to get on the end of things. But we do need a player that is more involved in the build up including pressing, linking and dribbling.

Way I look at it you have Hazard vs Salah in wingers. Hazard is the ultimate build up player, retains the ball, beats defenders for fun then you have Salah who might do nothing for 90 mins then bang a worldie from nowhere.

Son, Johnson all fit the get on the end of things do nothing then bang a worldie. We need a build up winger for balance. Werner isn’t quite the level, Kulusevski long term is a central player and Moore is a little to young. We need a winger that is brilliant at build up play.
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LOL, when did you see Johnson bang a worldie?
 
LeParisien said:
We also need a better Maddison (or if not an Eze…). That would unlock a lot of attacking potential and he’s been poor for all but 3 months.

People don’t like to hear this but Son was underwhelming for his first couple of years in a shirt. It wasn’t a given that he would stay. He showed flashes of extreme quality but a lot more nothingness.

I’m tired of people prematurely writing off players. Johnson may or not make it but progression paths are very hard to assess. I’d love if we got behind our players a bit more - at least give them time.
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This is a very nice and wholesome sentiment but it's utterly misplaced at the top level of football.

You mention Son as being underwhelming but from the minute he joined it was clear he was technically sound player who could use both feet.

Forget both feet, the important part is technically sound, which Johnson is not.

You can watch a player like Bergvall, Gray, Moore etc and see the technique and the basics of football are there, it's the rest they need experience and improvement in whereas Johnson needs improvement in all 3.

Why on earth would you want to waste time getting behind a player who lacks the fundamentals in the hope he one day does what's never been done and improves his technique in his mid twenties and in the mean time costs the team?
 
nasm_f said:
You've answered my question with a question which is apparently frowned upon in these parts eh Ionman34 Ionman34 but nonetheless I can handle it and will answer without resorting to name calling.

I think he will never be better technically than he is now at 23 years of age so he has hit his ceiling in that aspect. He can definitely improve in his decision making in terms of his movement off the ball and what to do with the ball when he gets it but unfortunately for him/us, the decision making can be perfect but as long as his technical execution is lacking, it won't be good enough for a team wanting to win and compete at the highest level which is what I assume we all want?
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Son is a notoriously streaky player with stretches where he isn’t scoring and seems to contribute very little. We can have a player like that in the team if his numbers over a season a good. If Johnson grows to become a 20+ G/A player then that is elite output and yes we can carry him.

My bad - you’re right that I didn’t answer your question. He is capable of improving his movement and I think that’s more about brains than aggression.
 
nasm_f said:
This is a very nice and wholesome sentiment but it's utterly misplaced at the top level of football.

You mention Son as being underwhelming but from the minute he joined it was clear he was technically sound player who could use both feet.

Forget both feet, the important part is technically sound, which Johnson is not.

You can watch a player like Bergvall, Gray, Moore etc and see the technique and the basics of football are there, it's the rest they need experience and improvement in whereas Johnson needs improvement in all 3.

Why on earth would you want to waste time getting behind a player who lacks the fundamentals in the hope he one day does what's never been done and improves his technique in his mid twenties and in the mean time costs the team?
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And yet Son had worse output than Johnson in the beginning so while the flashes of quality were there, he also had long stretches of nothing. I remember the early fan sentiment well. I lived in London at that point. He could have become a talented but mercurial player OR he could have been very good. He became better than most suspected after the first season.

The evidence for Johnson also shows a big range. Bottom end of progress and he’s good but not great… top end and he starts every day.

I worked at the club when Bâle was signed and I promise you he got a LOT of criticism outside the club because I remember how defensive the first team coaches were about how impatient the fans were being. They knew he had that potential.

We have to be careful not to judge players only with hindsight and learn from our tendency to be too quick to judge
 
Aussies Dream said:
Show him the pillows
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planes trains and automobiles GIF by Hollywood Suite
 
ThePreacher said:
5 goals 10 assists last season in the PL.

Started just 26 games.

If his first season I think that's a good return.
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We need higher expectations. Sure it's a "decent" return for a midtable attacker but when the teams ahead of us have RWs putting up 25-30 G/As the gap in quality is clear.

Do you think he will put up those numbers after a year of "settling in"? If the answer is no (which it should be) then we should absolutely be looking to upgrade with the highest quality RW we can attract.

Also stats alone do not tell the full picture:
- Look into the opposition he got those G/As against and factor in the game state - he is not an attacker that the best teams fear
- His all round game is terrible and has a wider impact in how well we can control games (show me the stat for that)
- For all those saying "let's see how he improves this season", sometimes the ceiling of a player is just obvious. It's not a question of adapting to new surroundings. He just lacks the tools to become an elite player. I thought our model was to sign young players with elite potential? It's never happening with Johnson.

It doesn't make you a melt or less of a fan to point this out. It is just frustrating facing another season with a mid-table player as our starting RW.

He wouldn't get near any of the other top 3 squads, that should tell you everything you need to know.
 
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