Manager Ange Postecoglou

[skywalker68]

Ange is showing the same stubbornness like conte, in that they want to play a certain way at all costs.
He needs to make adjustments, otherwise his time will be up very soon.
Also for his system to work, he needs specific players to carry this out.
And yet, we have started the season with a crop of youth team signings, are all the management team aligned, because I can't see how he is ok with those signings.
There still is the issue of, the same problems occurring game in game out, ange looks pissed off when he gets questioned over this. But all of us can see where the problems are except for him it seems.

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

So basically it doesn’t matter who the manager is then, they’re all set up to fail.

Click to shrink...

To a degree. But i think the lesson is if the club stumble on someone like Redknapp or Poch, back them and stick with them. But they wont of course.

Also it shows, given the way other managers were judged Ange is pretty lucky to still be here.

 

[Murphy]

Hard to disagree with any of that. I said the bit of bolded before kick off and we say a similar thing most weeks. However, when you have a shite attack and a porous defence then you’re fucked.

But I just don’t know who else would come in and do a better job in the dugout, the set of players that has been assembled is atrocious. They’re all so mentally fragile. As soon as the scum scored I knew we were fucked.

Click to shrink...

The players do have a weak mentality and are fragile, but by themselves it isn't a bad group. They aren't suited to this tactically.

We are trying to play like City, but without that calibre of player.

Son was more effective as a striker. He doesn't really have the legs for LW consistently. But we just spent £65m on a striker.

We all hated Joseball and Conteball but for the most part it was a reduced version of their best because they didn't have the right parts and had to improvise and for the most part it worked. It was just a horrible watch. Ange HAS to be pragmatic and try to implement his vision as best he can with what he has. That may require a compromise. I'm not a football manager of course but so many of us think 3-5-2 transforms what we do whilst leaving us less exposed on the counter.

Have Udogie and Porro wide. Fuck the inverted bollocks off. Son AND Solanke up top. See what happens.

It might not work. But doing the same thing as the last 34 league games is like pissing in the wind. Waiting for the gust to go the right way so you don't piss on yourself.

We can all see it. And you can bet your arse Levy can see it and is already making enquiries.

 

[harry7]

Look at the last 34 games. These signs were also there in the first "wondrous" 10 games too.

The whole thing is inflexible and relies on scoring two or more goals.

It's been figured out with ridiculous ease and I'm sorry, we should be beating our rivals at home. Whilst prone to the odd smashing at SJP go and look at our record against them over the last 10 years. More wins than you'd think.

This is 3 losses against Woolwich on the spin at home. It's a fucking disgrace by itself.

The keeper is a good shot stopper but is fucking awful on set pieces and is easily bullied. Romero is at fault for almost every goal conceded thus far this season and yet he's not dropped.

All on the manager.

Like I said, those saying "be patient, more time" and yet 10/11 starters yesterday have had a full season with him. How long do they need for it to click?

We've lost 1/3 matches we've played. In the last 12 games we've only beaten teams that are really, really shit. Fucking wake up.

Click to shrink...

First Gareth Bale, and then Harry Kane. We had 2 EXCEPTIONAL players that elevated us from an average team to a top 4 team.

There is no outstanding player to bail us out time and time again - and there are no such players available in the transfer market. So, we have to do something different. We have to try and build a squad of players without any world class elite talent.

It took Arteta a few seasons to get it right at Woolwich, and it took Klopp a few seasons to get it right at Liverpool. But somehow at Spurs; the fans expect instant results?

We aren't close to Woolwich, City, Liverpool's quality. United and Chelsea have impressive, but underperforming squads.

6th is realistically our level; and we are competing with Newcastle, Villa and Brighton. Would expect us to go large in 1 of the domestic competitions; but doubt this squad has the legs for a European campaign.

The Bale and Kane era is over. It was fun while it lasted, but Spurs are back at their level; and if they want to rise again, it will come from building a squad that plays well together, not from signing a superstar player.

 

[harry7]

Have Udogie and Porro wide. Fuck the inverted bollocks off. Son AND Solanke up top. See what happens.

It might not work. But doing the same thing as the last 34 league games is like pissing in the wind. Waiting for the gust to go the right way so you don't piss on yourself.

Click to shrink...

ANGE
Right Lads, fuck all the stuff we've been working on in training. We're going to change formation and see what happens. First one the sprint to the overside of the park gets to play striker.

 

[Shaggy]

As usual the buck stops with the board. They are trying to reduce the expenses of the club while maximising it's value to appeal to investors. This with the stated aim of increasing the transfer and wage budget with a cash injection. That's why we're only buying young prospects over long periods who will have sell on value (minus solanke) and getting rid of everyone on big wages. Perhaps they have even sold Ange on this but, you know, how many times can you play the jam tomorrow card in 20 odd years?

Unfortunately you can't compete at the top level if competing isn't your main focus. We didn't strengthen enough and our players basically just aren't as good as our rivals. We are playing a high risk system but honestly I don't think the system is to blame. Any system can work if you have the players for it. Right now we're building a team to play Angeball in two years. He'll be sacked by then.

 

[arngspurs]

We had an amazing start to last season, which ended with half of our team getting injured. Results decline because of this, fine, let’s get our first team players back.

The second half of last season was a massive shit show, but maybe Ange just needs a full season to imbed his ideas and get his own players in.

He’s had two preseasons, he’s said he’s bought his own players in and we still look awful. What’s the excuse now?

 

[Tomo]

Nuno had 10 league games, got 15 pts and was sacked.
Ange's last 10 league games he has 10 pts.

Poch with all the credit in the bank got 14pts from his last 12 league games.
Ange has 13 pts from his last 12.

Click to shrink...

That is true although it normally isn’t result that get managers sacked it’s the football itself. Nuno’s football was terrible and all the fans turned, AVB in that second season was horrific. It’s the football more than the results, players are still playing for him we just don’t have the forwards to make much of good positions. The window we got Odoburt and Solanke, time will tell if that is enough as Son, Werner and Johnson appears to be weak when it comes to high press high possession football.

 

[Murphy]

First Gareth Bale, and then Harry Kane. We had 2 EXCEPTIONAL players that elevated us from an average team to a top 4 team.

There is no outstanding player to bail us out time and time again - and there are no such players available in the transfer market. So, we have to do something different. We have to try and build a squad of players without any world class elite talent.

It took Arteta a few seasons to get it right at Woolwich, and it took Klopp a few seasons to get it right at Liverpool. But somehow at Spurs; the fans expect instant results?

We aren't close to Woolwich, City, Liverpool's quality. United and Chelsea have impressive, but underperforming squads.

6th is realistically our level; and we are competing with Newcastle, Villa and Brighton. Would expect us to go large in 1 of the domestic competitions; but doubt this squad has the legs for a European campaign.

The Bale and Kane era is over. It was fun while it lasted, but Spurs are back at their level; and if they want to rise again, it will come from building a squad that plays well together, not from signing a superstar player.

Click to shrink...

I don't expect us to win the league and nowhere in my post did I say we need to sign exceptional players.

We have good players. The tactics aren't working. We have the most expensive tickets in the league and yeah, we can't compete with City or Chelsea financially, our revenue is on par with Liverpool, Woolwich and ahead of Villa. We've spent huge sums of money, just as always on the wrong players. Our biggest issue is refusing to budge on wages and this will always stop us getting the very best talent, instead relying on us to have gems from within.

But regardless, this sport is about results and the tactics we employ are NOT working. How long should we persevere for?

Klopp was backed with record fees for a goalkeeper and defender after selling arguably their best player got £140m. With a sprinty little cunt that's been mostly unplayable.

Arteta would surely have been sacked had it not been during COVID. Ten Hag would be sacked had he not actually won trophies.

Most of us would probably accept 4th and a cup. Even 5th and a cup. But we've tasted the what could have been in the last decade. As well as huge amounts of failure. That's why we have no patience for this shit.

Yes, managers need time. But we have no real patterns of play. No idea what to do with the ball when we get to the box. Players passing backwards, not breaking at pace. You would think we would see a definitive style by now.

What we have is a lot of the ball, with Micky bailing us out when we get broken against. And conceding goals because the same players make the same mistakes.

Teams lose football matches. It happens. We keep losing football matches the same way. That is what's unacceptable.

 

[Murphy]

ANGE
Right Lads, fuck all the stuff we've been working on in training. We're going to change formation and see what happens. First one the sprint to the overside of the park gets to play striker.

Click to shrink...

No, you are right. Let's keep doing the same thing until it clicks. Let's do it for another 34 games and see what happens.

It isn't working.

 

[Richard Arlison]

And yet it works....
Over and over.

They know we're about as much threat as a small child

Click to shrink...

It works because we aren't taking advantage of the situations we create. Not because the other team has some master plan.

 

[HampshireSpur]

I don't expect us to win the league and nowhere in my post did I say we need to sign exceptional players.

We have good players. The tactics aren't working. We have the most expensive tickets in the league and yeah, we can't compete with City or Chelsea financially, our revenue is on par with Liverpool, Woolwich and ahead of Villa. We've spent huge sums of money, just as always on the wrong players. Our biggest issue is refusing to budge on wages and this will always stop us getting the very best talent, instead relying on us to have gems from within.

But regardless, this sport is about results and the tactics we employ are NOT working. How long should we persevere for?

Klopp was backed with record fees for a goalkeeper and defender after selling arguably their best player got £140m. With a sprinty little cunt that's been mostly unplayable.

Arteta would surely have been sacked had it not been during COVID. Ten Hag would be sacked had he not actually won trophies.

Most of us would probably accept 4th and a cup. Even 5th and a cup. But we've tasted the what could have been in the last decade. As well as huge amounts of failure. That's why we have no patience for this shit.

Yes, managers need time. But we have no real patterns of play. No idea what to do with the ball when we get to the box. Players passing backwards, not breaking at pace. You would think we would see a definitive style by now.

What we have is a lot of the ball, with Micky bailing us out when we get broken against. And conceding goals because the same players make the same mistakes.

Teams lose football matches. It happens. We keep losing football matches the same way. That is what's unacceptable.

Click to shrink...

When people compare Ange to Poch and (much more fancifully imv) Klopp and Arteta the key difference is you could see improvement in each of the latter three over the first 18 months, despite rocky moments. Ange has gone backwards and already seems to be getting stale.

Can Ange turn it around? The window is narrowing. For those who think the tactics are right and we need to persevere, I have some magic beans to sell you...

And of course Klopp was fully backed with a brilliant 'keeper and one of the best CBs in world football after identifying problem areas. Can't see that happening here.

 

[Tomo]

When people compare Ange to Poch and (much more fancifully imv) Klopp and Arteta the key difference is you could see improvement in each of the latter three over the first 18 months, despite rocky moments. Ange has gone backwards and already seems to be getting stale.

Can Ange turn it around? The window is narrowing. For those who think the tactics are right and we need to persevere, I have some magic beans to sell you...

And of course Klopp was fully backed with a brilliant 'keeper and one of the best CBs in world football after identifying problem areas. Can't see that happening here.

Click to shrink...

Yes and no. The defensive structure actually looks a lot better this season, we haven’t given up too many chances that have not been by defender error, normally Romero who has been frankly shit the first few games. It’s the attacking movement of the forwards that is the problem,m, we compress the play like Pep does but unlike Pep our forwards are weak in tight spaces. You need wingers like Sancho with real technical and explosive qualities. Odoburt is the closest profile of that player but way off that level yet.

What I am saying is we are trying to play elite football without elite players. We can box in any team for long periods including City or Woolwich but we can’t execute and that if not fixed totally fucks us.

 

[Henry Hotspur]

It works because we aren't taking advantage of the situations we create. Not because the other team has some master plan.

Click to shrink...

We aren’t creating chances though! ‘Situations’ …fucking hell. Nothing clear cut because we are easy to defend against. Just the same ‘patterns’ all the time - which are coached and part of Ange’s much vaunted ‘principles’.

He either doesn’t know how to coach defensive cohesion or just plain doesn’t want to know. He’s as ignorant as he is stubborn. Can’t believe there are people here defending the fraud. He’s well out of his depth and has been consistently found out by players, coaches and staff in the best league in the world - not the J League, the poxy A league or the 2 horse race Scottish league.

He’s fucked it and knows it but consistently doubles down on his mistakes. Dead man walking

 

[Richard Arlison]

When people compare Ange to Poch and (much more fancifully imv) Klopp and Arteta the key difference is you could see improvement in each of the latter three over the first 18 months, despite rocky moments. Ange has gone backwards and already seems to be getting stale.

Can Ange turn it around? The window is narrowing. For those who think the tactics are right and we need to persevere, I have some magic beans to sell you...

And of course Klopp was fully backed with a brilliant 'keeper and one of the best CBs in world football after identifying problem areas. Can't see that happening here.

Click to shrink...

Not really.

I remember Poch and Klopp pretty clearly. It was very frustrating with Poch. Especially breaking down teams that didn't try to win games and just sat deep. I remember very vividly teasing a good mate of mine that's a dipper and saying that Liverpool were never catching us. It felt true for a long time, until it didn't.

Football always feel better/worse in the moment. It's always the best thing ever or doomsday.

With Ange I can see that we aren't as fragile defensively as last season, especially on the counter. We are conceding about 1 goal per game across the first 4 - that includes Newcastle away and gooners at home, 2 games where we usually concede more than 1.

We are much better at set pieces at both ends. Sure, we just conceded our first set piece goal of the season but that was a concentration thing. Romero is our most aggressive defender and he was right where he was supposed to be system-wise, on their most dangerous set piece threat. He just lost the battle. It happens.

Where we are struggling is exactly where Poch was struggling at this exact stage of his second season, scoring goals against teams with numbers behind the ball. Tbh I'd say our press is actually better and ahead of Poch's at this stage.

 

[HampshireSpur]

Yes and no. The defensive structure actually looks a lot better this season, we haven’t given up too many chances that have not been by defender error, normally Romero who has been frankly shit the first few games. It’s the attacking movement of the forwards that is the problem,m, we compress the play like Pep does but unlike Pep our forwards are weak in tight spaces. You need wingers like Sancho with real technical and explosive qualities. Odoburt is the closest profile of that player but way off that level yet.

What I am saying is we are trying to play elite football without elite players. We can box in any team for long periods including City or Woolwich but we can’t execute and that if not fixed totally fucks us.

Click to shrink...

But we are conceding the same type of goals - set pieces are still an issue clearly, and we are vulnerable on the transition. There doesn't seem to be any (apparent) strategy for dealing with this - all very well going on about containment but football is about key moments and we don't manage these well. Add to that something of a lack of collective discipline. Add to the apparent failure to learn from mistakes...that's organisation and on Ange.

Where I do agree with you
1. Players - and Ange won't ever get what he wants. Board issue
2. Individual lulls in performance - Romero has been poor so far this season

Basically we can do a lot of damage persevering with the guy but no idea who we move to next. But it's gonna happen, he won't see out the season, that much is clear.

 

[HampshireSpur]

Not really.

I remember Poch and Klopp pretty clearly. It was very frustrating with Poch. Especially breaking down teams that didn't try to win games and just sat deep. I remember very vividly teasing a good mate of mine that's a dipper and saying that Liverpool were never catching us. It felt true for a long time, until it didn't.

Football always feel better/worse in the moment. It's always the best thing ever or doomsday.

With Ange I can see that we aren't as fragile defensively as last season, especially on the counter. We are conceding about 1 goal per game across the first 4 - that includes Newcastle away and gooners at home, 2 games where we usually concede more than 1.

We are much better at set pieces at both ends. Sure, we just conceded our first set piece goal of the season but that was a concentration thing. Romero is our most aggressive defender and he was right where he was supposed to be system-wise, on their most dangerous set piece threat. He just lost the battle. It happens.

Where we are struggling is exactly where Poch was struggling at this exact stage of his second season, scoring goals against teams with numbers behind the ball. Tbh I'd say our press is actually better and ahead of Poch's at this stage.

Click to shrink...

My recollection of Poch is completely different, I must say.

As for Klopp - I just don't see it, I really don't.

Sorry but I just cannot see the improvement you're suggesting is happening. There's a basic lack of organisation and lack of defensive nous that I don't think will ever be overcome as long as Ange is here.

 

[Richard Arlison]

My recollection of Poch is completely different, I must say.

As for Klopp - I just don't see it, I really don't.

Sorry but I just cannot see the improvement you're suggesting is happening. There's a basic lack of organisation and lack of defensive nous that I don't think will ever be overcome as long as Ange is here.

Click to shrink...

It’s not about recollection with Poch. He had the same points or even one less point from 4 games and we couldn’t score goals.

As for not seeing my suggested improvement, I’m not suggesting anything. The actual numbers of goals and underlying numbers of xG and other metrics are all pointing towards conceding much less than last year.

We haven’t conceded a goal on the counter yet this season. I think Martinelli’s chance yesterday was a counter but I’m not sure. If it was, then it was the first clear cut chance in 4 games that we’ve given up on the counter this season.

The goal from the set piece was also the first clear header or shot we’ve given up from a set piece in 4 games too.

Those aren’t suggestions, they are facts.

 

[Tomo]

But we are conceding the same type of goals - set pieces are still an issue clearly, and we are vulnerable on the transition. There doesn't seem to be any (apparent) strategy for dealing with this - all very well going on about containment but football is about key moments and we don't manage these well. Add to that something of a lack of collective discipline. Add to the apparent failure to learn from mistakes...that's organisation and on Ange.

Where I do agree with you
1. Players - and Ange won't ever get what he wants. Board issue
2. Individual lulls in performance - Romero has been poor so far this season

Basically we can do a lot of damage persevering with the guy but no idea who we move to next. But it's gonna happen, he won't see out the season, that much is clear.

Click to shrink...

Transition I think it a lot better than last season, set pieces yes still an issue.

If this fails then I do worry about this club. Conte is an elite manager, we couldn’t get him what he needed and he combusted as he does but he is still elite and will win elsewhere. Ange might not be an elite manager but he clearly plays elite football, his style would be perfect with the City squad or even Liverpool one.

My point is if we can’t back an elite manager or even a manager that plays an elite style it’s basically saying we can’t do anything elite. That is a fucking stain on this club. I am sure more than just an idiot like myself will have noticed this. It means that only pragmatic managers who get the best out of whatever they are given fit us and that style of football has a ceiling that won’t be breached. That is a huge issue longer term issue for this club.

 

[Murphy]

My recollection of Poch is completely different, I must say.

As for Klopp - I just don't see it, I really don't.

Sorry but I just cannot see the improvement you're suggesting is happening. There's a basic lack of organisation and lack of defensive nous that I don't think will ever be overcome as long as Ange is here.

Click to shrink...

We are better defensively. We've conceded five less goals against the same opponents. We ARE going to concede set-piece goals, regardless of training improvements, especially against the team that arguably the best at them.

That said, we are still dropping points like crazy and our effectiveness up top has been nullified, which mirrors the back end of last season. We aren't learning how to beat that low block. We are so easy to play against and giving up chances which our opponents take.