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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Richard Arlison said:
Mate, you just typed “pressing and possession are unrelated” and then thought “yup, I’ll just hit send on that bad boy”?

Talk me through the practicality of “giving up possession”?
They just pass us the ball back every time?

Find a possession dominant team in history that didn’t press to get the ball back. If there is one you’ve probably found a glitch in the matrix
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They don't try to win the ball back. Of course when they have it they try to do something with it. But when we have it, most teams stand off and don't actively try to win the ball back and keep it for long periods. Fast counters, have a shot, get back in shape quickly, stand off, wait.

If you can't understand this, and it's pretty fucking simple, then I can't keep talking to you.
 
dudu said:
Defending with 11 men behind the ball takes it toll over 90 mins though. It's mentally exhausting and you just have to make one mistake to be punished.

We have lacked quality in the speed and excecution of our passing, something which can improve over time.

Look at our first goal vs Everton as an example of when we have turned our possession against a deep block into a goal. Everyone involved produced quality in the build up to that goal.
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Odds are, we make more mistakes in those 90 minutes than they do. That's the game plan.
 
Shotgunofmichalebrow said:
I have no idea the point you are making. I simply stated that the idea teams were "letting us press them was wild" I maintain teams are allowing us possession of the football and minimally contesting it in certain areas. I think you are confusing yourself. You seem a bit over fixated on the idea of pressing with out fully appreciating some of the nuance. 'Pressing and possession are unrelated' seems like something Mike Bassett would say....
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Pretty sure I was agreeing with you.
Brentfords big mistake at the weekend was continuing their slow passing out from the back. It was everything we wanted them to do and more.
 
NewZealand_Spur said:
So Brentford gets one stay of execution. Does winning at OT get him two stays of execution? How about a draw? Off with half of his head?
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If we play well and win on Thursday (2 things) and then go to OT and do what is needed, then his stock is rising.
My suspicion is we play turgid shit but win Thursday and then get beat 2-1 at OT though.

At which point, he's back to "lose another game and he could well be gone"

Our form is still dismal, even with the win last weekend.
 
Matt1882 said:
They don't try to win the ball back. Of course when they have it they try to do something with it. But when we have it, most teams stand off and don't actively try to win the ball back and keep it for long periods. Fast counters, have a shot, get back in shape quickly, stand off, wait.

If you can't understand this, and it's pretty fucking simple, then I can't keep talking to you.
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Mate, you just need to look at the charts and see the correlation for every team between pressing and possession. You said there is no connection between pressing and possession.

Over the 5 games so far we have pressed better than any team in Europe and as a result we have had the most possession. It’s much more about us than anyone else.

Teams know that we are going to do that so they work on being compact and hitting us on the counter but it’s a combination of us dictating the flow of the game and at other times teams scoring first.

Either way, we we can agree is that teams haven’t been that uncomfortable when we’ve had the ball. We have been equally comfortable so far this season when they try to counter attack us. UTD will be another big test of that because they will also hope to counter attack.

What we need to do is more of we saw against Brentford where we do punish teams after turnovers or pick them apart when they sit deep.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Mate, you just need to look at the charts and see the correlation for every team between pressing and possession. You said there is no connection between pressing and possession.

Over the 5 games so far we have pressed better than any team in Europe and as a result we have had the most possession. It’s much more about us than anyone else.

Teams know that we are going to do that so they work on being compact and hitting us on the counter but it’s a combination of us dictating the flow of the game and at other times teams scoring first.

Either way, we we can agree is that teams haven’t been that uncomfortable when we’ve had the ball. We have been equally comfortable so far this season when they try to counter attack us. UTD will be another big test of that because they will also hope to counter attack.

What we need to do is more of we saw against Brentford where we do punish teams after turnovers or pick them apart when they sit deep.
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How do you square our most convincing performance and win of the season coming when the oppo had more possession?
 
Kosta said:
The more I think about it, I’m starting to think that Ange’s ‘ I always win in the second season’ was very deliberate.

1. Took the pressure right off the player and put it all on his shoulders last week and for the rest of the season.

2. Signal to the club/players to ‘grow some balls’ and ditch the lose/mediocre mentality.

He’s got a bit of Sir Alex Ferguson in him… self belief wise… not saying he will win as much
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Yeah it is exactly what he is doing. I'd add putting pressure on being backed too. If, and it is a big if, he can win something with us this season, it puts more pressure on the owners to back him, which is what they need.
 
SpurFromOz said:
Honest question. What did you want / expect him to say ?

Seems to me you have already made up your mind on Ange based on what you call "stubbornness" . He came into the job on the promise of change. Change of play, change of mindset, change of culture.
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Sometimes it's better to stay silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and prove it.

harry7 said:
The club are fully behind Ange.

We don't cheat. We don't kick the ball away and waste time. We don't roll on the floor pretending to be injured. We don't sit back and park the bus.

We play football our way. We are either better than the other team, or we are not.

If we win, it's because we deserve too.

He's building a squad that is the best. Not trying to win games by time wasting, 'stealing' a win.
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We'll never win anything with this mentality. All winners have a nasty side. Game management is a dark art in of itself. We're the sort of team that is 90 seconds away from winning a cup, tries to make it 2-0, concedes on the break and then loses on penalties. It's who we are mate.

Kosta said:
Form back end of last year was dismal. Performances good this year but not the results.

I think when we’re at our best most teams can’t live with us . It’s the lack of consistency that’s killing us.
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It doesn't matter what the perception is of how we play. Results are all that matter. Week after week kicking a ball around aimlessly and not winning is bringing him closer to the end of his reign.
Levy may not want us to win too much, but he certainly wants us in and around the top 5 and our form is nowhere near that.
 
Matt1882 said:
Odds are, we make more mistakes in those 90 minutes than they do. That's the game plan.
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They hope the odds are that way yes.

At this level it's part of every teams game plan. Margins have never been finer between so many teams in the league.

Arsneal sit deep against difficult teams hoping they can capitalise on counter attacks and also on mistakes at set pieces.

Unless someone has scored a worldie ita more likely than not thay a goal has been scored because someone somewhere has made an error.
 
nasm_f said:
How do you square our most convincing performance and win of the season coming when the oppo had more possession?
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The most dominant part of that performance was the first half when we pressed them off the park. Our possession stats during that period were 60%+ IIRC.

Second half was the longest we have been ahead in a game this season so the game state is different - The onus was on Brentford and IMO Brentford deserve a lot of credit second half for going to a really intense man to man press themselves. They came at us and in the end we punished them for it but also Vicario made a couple of great saves too.
 
False 9 said:
We don’t have time for a ‘long’ and ‘testing’ road after 16 years of failure, dross and embarrassment. We want success and now have the players do do that. He needs to drop his ego and achieve that by implementing a solid defensive structure in his tactics.
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Is the World due to end in the next 2 years? If not, you're talking absolute gibberish.

There's not a single poster on here that would agree with your "we have the players to do that" assertion, not yet we don't, and it has sweet FA to do with his ego or, more to the point, your narrow minded perception of it.

Only 2 managers have managed to win the Prem in their 2nd season, Pep and Mourinho. The common denominator there being that both spent nigh on half a billion to get the squad to do so. Both also inherited teams that had either already won the Prem, or were within touching distance. AP hasn't had that luxury, nor is he backed by oil money and cheating.

We've tried the quick fix, it failed. So you'd better get used to the timeframe, because that's what will happen.
 
Richard Arlison said:
The most dominant part of that performance was the first half when we pressed them off the park. Our possession stats during that period were 60%+ IIRC.

Second half was the longest we have been ahead in a game this season so the game state is different - The onus was on Brentford and IMO Brentford deserve a lot of credit second half for going to a really intense man to man press themselves. They came at us and in the end we punished them for it but also Vicario made a couple of great saves too.
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51.9% - 48.1% in our favour was the stats for the first half, 53.1% - 46.9% specifically for the opening half hour, both significantly less than the normal 60~65%.

This is not a gotcha, just think this, whilst tbf only being one game, lends credence to the argument that our style works successfully only if the other team is willing to compete for possession instead of sitting off.
 
False 9 said:
We don’t have time for a ‘long’ and ‘testing’ road after 16 years of failure, dross and embarrassment. We want success and now have the players do do that. He needs to drop his ego and achieve that by implementing a solid defensive structure in his tactics.
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Zzz Ok GIF by Jim Gaffigan
 
nasm_f said:
51.9% - 48.1% in our favour was the stats for the first half, 53.1% - 46.9% specifically for the opening half hour, both significantly less than the normal 60~65%.

This is not a gotcha, just think this, whilst tbf only being one game, lends credence to the argument that our style works successfully only if the other team is willing to compete for possession instead of sitting off.
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I don’t think our style of play changed at all vs Brentford.

The first 2 goals came from the press causing high turnovers, we just executed afterwards.

The third was a traditional, Lightning quick counter attack but it didn’t look like a different style of football.

When we play other pressing teams like Liverpool and City, we might have 53% possession too but it won’t mean we’ve changed our style of football
 
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