To anyone that believed otherwise I have two words...
Well...duh
-
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
- Start date
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To anyone that believed otherwise I have two words...
Well...duh
View: https://x.com/profspur/status/1839695757206577377?t=omCRB8eez8bb3g-ixuhgNA&s=19
Carragher getting absolutely murdered in this thread
Tbh Carragher has achieved the exact click baiting he was looking for.
Fair play to Prof for a fantastic rebuttal with the level of analysis he did but Carragher isn't a serious man. He's clown most of the time and is at his best giggling like a kid with Micah Richards and Thierry Henry or bantering with Gaz Neville.
Funny people moaning about our defence, straight after a clean sheet, and in a season where we've conceded 6 goals from 7 matches (compared to 63 from 41 last season)
Carragher is correct lol. We’ve lost our only two big games this season - how are we NOT lovely to play against?
He’s saying we’re a nice watch but a soft touch and vulnerable. Nothing groundbreaking here, completely true.
It’ll be up to ‘Ange’ in another big game on Sunday to pick up a win against a team of some quality.
He’s saying we’re a nice watch but a soft touch and vulnerable. Nothing groundbreaking here, completely true.
It’ll be up to ‘Ange’ in another big game on Sunday to pick up a win against a team of some quality.
So by your logic, UTD are also lovely to play against?
United just aren’t very good at anything at all, overall structure wise. They just have some quality footballers in the team who, if given space, can hurt you.
Press wise we can shred them like Liverpool did, they can’t handle it. But there are areas I expect us to be sloppier in than Liverpool and those are the areas we will give them hope in.
We are entertaining, can be dangerous but I don’t think teams turn up to our stadium for example feeling like they’ve already lost. They turn up thinking there are gaps in this armour and we’ve got a chance.
I doubt any premier league turns up at any ground thinking they have no chance
Obviously we have a way to go and very much a work in progress but I doubt anyone thinks it’s going to be lovely to play against a team that will press you and force you to play faster than normal for 90mins. I’d also doubt that any footballer enjoys defending for 90mins then looking for counters. Even Conte used to call it “suffering”.
Teams will look at the Newcastle and scum results and think they have a good chance to slow us down if they sit deep. It’s up to us to keep breaking them down when they try it
That's a pretty balanced assessment tbf.
But to me the missing element at the moment is less our defensive openness, and more that we have been ineffective in attack when it comes to unpicking a set defence. That gives opponents hope that if they just block effectively, we won't score, and they'll get a couple of chances to hit us on the break. If we score first that all changes; they can't sit back, and if they can't match us in midfield intensity, then that feeling of having already lost is going to creep in pretty quickly.
Defensively I think there's been improvements since last season:
- (slightly) better positioning in possession to be less open when we do turn it over
- more effective high press
- better set piece defending
That's not too say that we couldn't improve our defence structurally, we definitely could. But our strategy is clear, and it's not that one.
We've played basically 256 minutes against low blocks while not leading (62 mins vs Leicester, 14 vs Everton, and 90 each vs Newcastle and Arse) and scored 3 goals in that time, ie a goal every 74 minutes. That's what's hurting us more than our defensive openness imo. If we tweak our positioning, off-ball movements and decision-making, with a front 5 of Son, Maddison, Solanke, Kulusevski and Odobert all firing, then I can see us getting much better at unpicking the low block. We do that then we score first more often, and the shape of the game changes in our favour, and our defence becomes (even) less of an issue.
OK son. Thanks for the idiot response
Oh, you're one of the patronising multis.
Nope, not an idiot response, Your lack of understanding to the difference a manager's influence in a contract extension and a new player signing is.. shows your idiocy.
Its simplistic I know but everything changes if we score first. The opposition cannot sit back waiting to counter and when they come out then its a different game.
Have a pleasant weekend.
Glad you two sorted out your differences
Today's Telegraph article
Tottenham are flat-track bullies – they are too easy to play against
Spurs are style over substance under Ange Postecoglou and if that doesn’t change, he’ll be under pressure
Shortly after appointing Ange Postecoglou, Daniel Levy addressed a supporters’ meeting and confidently stated: “We have our Tottenham back.”
Cynics will say the chairman has been proven right. Under Postecoglou, Spurs are pleasing on the eye but inconsistent, miles off being a title contender and their best chance of a successful season is winning a cup.
This has been the Tottenham way for most of my lifetime.
Whenever Spurs visit the toughest venues – as they will when heading to Manchester United this weekend – you anticipate an entertaining game and a home win. I would never turn off the TV if Spurs are playing because there is an expectation of goals at both ends.
Postecoglou was welcomed in north London because it is clear what he is not as much as what he is. He could ride a wave for following a plan far removed from Antonio Conte and being the anti-Jose Mourinho. There was relief that the era of pragmatic, ultra-tactical defensive football was over, the new manager was a breath of fresh air.
“I just feel we’re seeing football we used to see, and that is all we want.” Levy told an enthusiastic audience.
Twelve months on, Levy’s comments are not ageing so well. While ambitious tactics are the minimum requirement for a Spurs coach to be accepted, there has to be a higher remit for a club of such stature.
The initial goodwill for Postecoglou has eroded because since the second half of last season there has been a worrying downturn.
Spurs head to Old Trafford after Thursday night’s 3-0 win over Qarabag in the Europa League having lost seven of their last 12 Premier League games. That run absorbed two North London derby defeats, which will not be unrelated to the growing murmurs from supporters about the team’s direction, even if the majority are patient enough to see if his principles pay off. Two seasons ago Tottenham finished above Woolwich, but now they have seen their rivals reap the reward of sticking to a long-term plan. Postecoglou needs statement results and performances during an ongoing transitional period to maintain trust that his side is on a similar trajectory to Mikel Arteta’s, who suffered plenty of bumps before getting where they are today.
Over Postecoglou’s 18 games against the clubs which finished in the top nine last season, Spurs have won four. They are in danger of being seen as flat-track bullies. That must change.
As is often the case with managers when the questions get tougher, the demeanour and remarks which were greeted with excitement during a honeymoon period can start to wear thin and become a stick with which to beat a coach when the mood changes.
Saying your beliefs were honed by mentor Ferenc Puskas’s idea that “we will win 5-4 every week and I’ll enjoy it” plays well to the gallery when winning eight of your first 10 games, but not so much when your side has three clean sheets in the past 26 Premier League games.
Shrugging off vulnerabilities from set-piece defending may be tolerated after occasional lapses in concentration, but not after conceding from corners in consecutive matches against your bitterest rivals. As a centre-back pairing, Cristian Romero and Micky van de Ven – a World Cup winner alongside one of the quickest defenders in the world – have the potential to be one of the best in the Premier League. It is a valid tactical discussion as to whether they are being left too exposed and might benefit from a more balanced set-up.
The investment in the Tottenham squad under Postecoglou has been significant. Around £379 million has been spent, albeit a significant portion of that was due to the sale of Harry Kane. Eye-catching fees were paid for Dominic Solanke and Brennan Johnson and the jury is out on whether they can elevate themselves from good players to Champions League class. Most of the money has been spent on youngsters rather than ready-made, senior players to improve the starting XI.
These are all worthy talking points for supporters, media and pundits who judge Postecoglou on more than whether his team is a good watch. That is why the press conferences which were box-office for entertaining one-liners when Postecoglou was at Celtic and first arrived at Spurs now seem more tense. The friendly tone now sounds more confrontational, as if the Tottenham manager feels he is being unfairly challenged.
In Postecoglou’s defence, he may be asking himself if the excellent start last season was more of a curse than blessing as it heightened immediate expectations.
Part of the problem in assessing Spurs in 2024 is it is difficult to know what the summit of their ambition truly is.
Watching the video of that meeting between Levy and the fans, as an outsider it is interesting to consider what ‘having our Tottenham back’ really means in terms of tangible success.
If Manchester United, Liverpool, Woolwich or Chelsea declare themselves ‘back’ they mean they are chasing and winning Premier League titles.
Does having Tottenham ‘back’ refer to the recent past, when Mauricio Pochettino led the club to four successive Champions League qualifications and a final?
Does it mean going back to the Keith Burkinshaw era of the 1980s, when they won FA Cups and a European trophy?
If it is purely about entertaining football, Postecoglou can consider himself one of the safest managers in the country.
When thinking about the classic Spurs identity, I immediately remember the classic 1980s line-up with Glenn Hoddle and Ossie Ardiles. They were a creative team that won major honours – famously winning back-to-back FA Cups in 1981 and 1982 – and were more consistent than many remember in the league, too.
Between 1981 and 1990, Spurs finished in the top four on five occasions. Despite that, even the great Spurs side of that era had a reputation for lacking the consistency to beat the best over a league season.
When Pochettino’s Spurs side finished second in 2017 it was the club’s highest league finish since 1963.
After finishing fifth last season, at any other of the biggest clubs in England the next logical step would be regarded as qualifying for the Champions League and winning a trophy.
At Spurs? I am genuinely unsure if the manager and his chairman would welcome or bristle at the idea that anything less than that in 2024-25 would be a failure. That may be a cultural problem which has held Spurs back too often whenever they need to propel themselves towards titles.
Every club wants its own style, and there is no question Postecoglou has restored Tottenham’s. Now he needs more substance.
Tottenham are flat-track bullies – they are too easy to play against
Spurs are style over substance under Ange Postecoglou and if that doesn’t change, he’ll be under pressure
Shortly after appointing Ange Postecoglou, Daniel Levy addressed a supporters’ meeting and confidently stated: “We have our Tottenham back.”
Cynics will say the chairman has been proven right. Under Postecoglou, Spurs are pleasing on the eye but inconsistent, miles off being a title contender and their best chance of a successful season is winning a cup.
This has been the Tottenham way for most of my lifetime.
Whenever Spurs visit the toughest venues – as they will when heading to Manchester United this weekend – you anticipate an entertaining game and a home win. I would never turn off the TV if Spurs are playing because there is an expectation of goals at both ends.
Postecoglou was welcomed in north London because it is clear what he is not as much as what he is. He could ride a wave for following a plan far removed from Antonio Conte and being the anti-Jose Mourinho. There was relief that the era of pragmatic, ultra-tactical defensive football was over, the new manager was a breath of fresh air.
“I just feel we’re seeing football we used to see, and that is all we want.” Levy told an enthusiastic audience.
Twelve months on, Levy’s comments are not ageing so well. While ambitious tactics are the minimum requirement for a Spurs coach to be accepted, there has to be a higher remit for a club of such stature.
The initial goodwill for Postecoglou has eroded because since the second half of last season there has been a worrying downturn.
Spurs head to Old Trafford after Thursday night’s 3-0 win over Qarabag in the Europa League having lost seven of their last 12 Premier League games. That run absorbed two North London derby defeats, which will not be unrelated to the growing murmurs from supporters about the team’s direction, even if the majority are patient enough to see if his principles pay off. Two seasons ago Tottenham finished above Woolwich, but now they have seen their rivals reap the reward of sticking to a long-term plan. Postecoglou needs statement results and performances during an ongoing transitional period to maintain trust that his side is on a similar trajectory to Mikel Arteta’s, who suffered plenty of bumps before getting where they are today.
Over Postecoglou’s 18 games against the clubs which finished in the top nine last season, Spurs have won four. They are in danger of being seen as flat-track bullies. That must change.
As is often the case with managers when the questions get tougher, the demeanour and remarks which were greeted with excitement during a honeymoon period can start to wear thin and become a stick with which to beat a coach when the mood changes.
Saying your beliefs were honed by mentor Ferenc Puskas’s idea that “we will win 5-4 every week and I’ll enjoy it” plays well to the gallery when winning eight of your first 10 games, but not so much when your side has three clean sheets in the past 26 Premier League games.
Shrugging off vulnerabilities from set-piece defending may be tolerated after occasional lapses in concentration, but not after conceding from corners in consecutive matches against your bitterest rivals. As a centre-back pairing, Cristian Romero and Micky van de Ven – a World Cup winner alongside one of the quickest defenders in the world – have the potential to be one of the best in the Premier League. It is a valid tactical discussion as to whether they are being left too exposed and might benefit from a more balanced set-up.
The investment in the Tottenham squad under Postecoglou has been significant. Around £379 million has been spent, albeit a significant portion of that was due to the sale of Harry Kane. Eye-catching fees were paid for Dominic Solanke and Brennan Johnson and the jury is out on whether they can elevate themselves from good players to Champions League class. Most of the money has been spent on youngsters rather than ready-made, senior players to improve the starting XI.
These are all worthy talking points for supporters, media and pundits who judge Postecoglou on more than whether his team is a good watch. That is why the press conferences which were box-office for entertaining one-liners when Postecoglou was at Celtic and first arrived at Spurs now seem more tense. The friendly tone now sounds more confrontational, as if the Tottenham manager feels he is being unfairly challenged.
In Postecoglou’s defence, he may be asking himself if the excellent start last season was more of a curse than blessing as it heightened immediate expectations.
Part of the problem in assessing Spurs in 2024 is it is difficult to know what the summit of their ambition truly is.
Watching the video of that meeting between Levy and the fans, as an outsider it is interesting to consider what ‘having our Tottenham back’ really means in terms of tangible success.
If Manchester United, Liverpool, Woolwich or Chelsea declare themselves ‘back’ they mean they are chasing and winning Premier League titles.
Does having Tottenham ‘back’ refer to the recent past, when Mauricio Pochettino led the club to four successive Champions League qualifications and a final?
Does it mean going back to the Keith Burkinshaw era of the 1980s, when they won FA Cups and a European trophy?
If it is purely about entertaining football, Postecoglou can consider himself one of the safest managers in the country.
When thinking about the classic Spurs identity, I immediately remember the classic 1980s line-up with Glenn Hoddle and Ossie Ardiles. They were a creative team that won major honours – famously winning back-to-back FA Cups in 1981 and 1982 – and were more consistent than many remember in the league, too.
Between 1981 and 1990, Spurs finished in the top four on five occasions. Despite that, even the great Spurs side of that era had a reputation for lacking the consistency to beat the best over a league season.
When Pochettino’s Spurs side finished second in 2017 it was the club’s highest league finish since 1963.
After finishing fifth last season, at any other of the biggest clubs in England the next logical step would be regarded as qualifying for the Champions League and winning a trophy.
At Spurs? I am genuinely unsure if the manager and his chairman would welcome or bristle at the idea that anything less than that in 2024-25 would be a failure. That may be a cultural problem which has held Spurs back too often whenever they need to propel themselves towards titles.
Every club wants its own style, and there is no question Postecoglou has restored Tottenham’s. Now he needs more substance.
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Yep, that's the Carragher one isn't it?
Spoken like someone who hasn't watched a single Spurs game this season.
Really, I thought it was accurate
In what way have we been "easy to play against" this season?
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