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Medical Staff at the Lane

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View: https://x.com/MeiaArmador__/status/1888727209101406542

It’s interesting that Postecoglu’s whole point is that players are out. I don’t understand, as I have said before, if the injuries are non-impact muscular injuries, and they are incessant, how is the physical conditioning not on the coaching staff? It’s totally to do with the physical demands on the pitch and on the training ground.Let’s objectively look at what entails that the physical load is far too high.
1) Tottenham are the 4th highest in PPDA. To put it simply, they press very aggressively. Does this mean they should not press? Of course not, but this higher physical load should be managed with lower loads in possession. Let’s look at that.
2) Spurs have committed 781 dribbling attempts (not take-ons). They rank 1st in the league, but that does not portray the whole picture. Spurs are clear outliers in this regard; Chelsea are 2nd, but they have committed 131 fewer attempts. To put that into perspective, the difference between 2nd and 14th is 129 attempts. Clear indication of the higher intensity in the approach.
3) The more vertical and high-tempo a team is, the higher the levels of ball losses will be. It’s neither a good thing nor bad; that depends on the overall game model. Spurs rank 4th in that regard; to put that into perspective, teams that manage similar levels of possession rank 15th and below. Clear sign of a more intense approach.
4) Finally, the most obvious metric to measure physical workload: how much the team sprints. Again, Spurs are clear outliers in this regard, as shown in the graph. The excessive amount of positional rotations also have a part to play in this. It’s abundantly clear that the game model puts an excessive physical load on the players. There are a lot more stats I can get into with regards to accelerations, distances between zonal substructures, and recovery-related stats. Unfortunately, they are only available to the coaching staff at the club, but the metrics I have mentioned still prove the point objectively and conclusively.
 
The Medical's Staff's job is to keep players fit and healthy and protect players from themselves / the manager.

Unfortunantely in this case the medical staff have simply not being doing a good job at protecting player welfare.

Put simply a manager should not have to alter a play style due to risk of injury to players. Manager's have enough on their plate next to having to be doctors as well.
 
Pathfinder said:

View: https://x.com/MeiaArmador__/status/1888727209101406542

It’s interesting that Postecoglu’s whole point is that players are out. I don’t understand, as I have said before, if the injuries are non-impact muscular injuries, and they are incessant, how is the physical conditioning not on the coaching staff? It’s totally to do with the physical demands on the pitch and on the training ground.Let’s objectively look at what entails that the physical load is far too high.
1) Tottenham are the 4th highest in PPDA. To put it simply, they press very aggressively. Does this mean they should not press? Of course not, but this higher physical load should be managed with lower loads in possession. Let’s look at that.
2) Spurs have committed 781 dribbling attempts (not take-ons). They rank 1st in the league, but that does not portray the whole picture. Spurs are clear outliers in this regard; Chelsea are 2nd, but they have committed 131 fewer attempts. To put that into perspective, the difference between 2nd and 14th is 129 attempts. Clear indication of the higher intensity in the approach.
3) The more vertical and high-tempo a team is, the higher the levels of ball losses will be. It’s neither a good thing nor bad; that depends on the overall game model. Spurs rank 4th in that regard; to put that into perspective, teams that manage similar levels of possession rank 15th and below. Clear sign of a more intense approach.
4) Finally, the most obvious metric to measure physical workload: how much the team sprints. Again, Spurs are clear outliers in this regard, as shown in the graph. The excessive amount of positional rotations also have a part to play in this. It’s abundantly clear that the game model puts an excessive physical load on the players. There are a lot more stats I can get into with regards to accelerations, distances between zonal substructures, and recovery-related stats. Unfortunately, they are only available to the coaching staff at the club, but the metrics I have mentioned still prove the point objectively and conclusively.
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Whilst that post brings up some topics to discuss, and I do think Ange needs to take the responsibility now, I tried to search that poster's profile because he is claiming to be a professional football coach/analyst and I can't find any record of any professional work at all. All I can see is another twitter tactico building a following from hindsight criticism's of other coaches' systems.

Doesn't mean that his questions are invalid but also doesn't mean what he's saying need to be taken as facts or aren't missing the context you would get from an actual pro who has worked at that level.
 
SpursNation said:
The Medical's Staff's job is to keep players fit and healthy and protect players from themselves / the manager.

Unfortunantely in this case the medical staff have simply not being doing a good job at protecting player welfare.

Put simply a manager should not have to alter a play style due to risk of injury to players. Manager's have enough on their plate next to having to be doctors as well.
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You can’t just sprint all the time. It’s physically impossible.

Buy yet we are way outside the norm on that chart above.
 
WillWilliams said:
You can’t just sprint all the time. It’s physically impossible.

Buy yet we are way outside the norm on that chart above.
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We just ran all the time under Conte as well. And under Poch. Ange’s system requiring sprints is just that, requiring more sprints. Doesn’t make it wrong if the players bodies have adjusted to it.

But they didn’t adjust to all the KMs they had to cover under Conte and they haven’t adapted to the sprints under Ange… there’s a deeper issue at play.

AAAND Ange’s system is fragile because it needs to be on the physical extremes to dominate teams enough to control games.
 
Richard Arlison said:
We just ran all the time under Conte as well. And under Poch. Ange’s system requiring sprints is just that, requiring more sprints. Doesn’t make it wrong if the players bodies have adjusted to it.

But they didn’t adjust to all the KMs they had to cover under Conte and they haven’t adapted to the sprints under Ange… there’s a deeper issue at play.

AAAND Ange’s system is fragile because it needs to be on the physical extremes to dominate teams enough to control games.
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Said it before but Angeball requires having better strength in depth than the rest of the league.

.....At which point you ought to be better than everyone else anyway (see City the last 10 years).

That's not good pound-for-pound management.


Lo and behold we're worse than the sum of our parts (in a world where all but a handful of teams need to punch above their weight if they wish to be successful).
 
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Richard Arlison said:
Whilst that post brings up some topics to discuss, and I do think Ange needs to take the responsibility now, I tried to search that poster's profile because he is claiming to be a professional football coach/analyst and I can't find any record of any professional work at all. All I can see is another twitter tactico building a following from hindsight criticism's of other coaches' systems.

Doesn't mean that his questions are invalid but also doesn't mean what he's saying need to be taken as facts or aren't missing the context you would get from an actual pro who has worked at that level.
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That’s a good point. I’ve never heard of Footovision before either.

Just saw that graphic and thought it looked pretty.
 
Airfixx said:
Said it before but Angeball requires having better strength in depth than the rest of the league.

.....At which point you ought to be better than everyone else anyway (see City the last 10 years).

That's not good pound-for-pound management.


Lo and behold were worse than the sum of our parts.
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It could be good pound for pound management if you can build your depth with elite young players who cost less.

But if you get an early season injury crisis that compounds and compounds before those young players are fully bedded in, then your gamble hasn’t paid off and it falls apart.

But that’s nothing new to anyone. Everything about appointing Ange to play an unorthodox style of football, with unorthodox recruitment IS BY ITS NATURE, high risk, high reward. Looks like almost all the chances of rewards have been lost and the risk hasn’t paid off
 
Richard Arlison said:
We just ran all the time under Conte as well. And under Poch. Ange’s system requiring sprints is just that, requiring more sprints. Doesn’t make it wrong if the players bodies have adjusted to it.

But they didn’t adjust to all the KMs they had to cover under Conte and they haven’t adapted to the sprints under Ange… there’s a deeper issue at play.

AAAND Ange’s system is fragile because it needs to be on the physical extremes to dominate teams enough to control games.
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You can only sprint so much before you body starts to break down.

Conte and Poch both used more players. Initially Poch played a 4-2-3-1 which put a lot less stress on the middle of the pitch.
Alli, eriksen and the RBs had to cover the most ground.
And I guess in hindsight we can say look what happened to those two midfielders.

Once Son became more established it was noticeable we were very more controlled in possession. I bet you can go through most match threads and people will be complaining how pedestrian we were in possession. Especially at Wembley. Always commented on it to the people sitting around me. We “grew up” as a team. Age and experience.

After 18 months this current squad is now both young and chaotic. And the chaos isn’t the good type.


But I don’t go to matches so there’s no way for me to judge the proper picture. I just see what the tv wants me to see. Which is about 1/4 of the game if that. I have no idea what is happening off the ball most of the time.
 
WillWilliams said:
You can only sprint so much before you body starts to break down.

Conte and Poch both used more players. Initially Poch played a 4-2-3-1 which put a lot less stress on the middle of the pitch.
Alli, eriksen and the RBs had to cover the most ground.
And I guess in hindsight we can say look what happened to those two midfielders.

Once Son became more established it was noticeable we were very more controlled in possession. I bet you can go through most match threads and people will be complaining how pedestrian we were in possession. Especially at Wembley. Always commented on it to the people sitting around me. We “grew up” as a team. Age and experience.

After 18 months this current squad is now both young and chaotic. And the chaos isn’t the good type.


But I don’t go to matches so there’s no way for me to judge the proper picture. I just see what the tv wants me to see. Which is about 1/4 of the game if that. I have no idea what is happening off the ball most of the time.
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In truth, Poch pretty much broke every CM he had eventually. None of them really played the same intensity afterwards.

I thought Poch rotated his FBs better than Conte or Ange.

Conte pretty much never rotated in my memory. He just picked the guys who were built for marathon running.
 
SpursNation said:
Are you claiming the manager is overruling the medical team's advice? Somehow doubt that.
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Ange said Sarr shouldn’t have started against Leicester.

I very much doubt the medical team signed him off and we already know he’s overplayed returning players from Ange’s own comments, Micky, Davies, others too.

So who’s making the call if it isn’t Angelos?
 
WillWilliams said:
Why?

I’m guessing you don’t work in professional football!!
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I don’t work in professional football but in professional sport, it’s much less likely that a coach can gamble by overruling medical staff than it would be in non league or semi pro,

The Amazon doc Jose was complaining the medical team weren’t making players available enough. If Jose Mourinho couldn’t overrule medical teams, then Ange Postecoglou almost certainly can’t.
 
Richard Arlison said:
I don’t work in professional football but in professional sport, it’s much less likely that a coach can gamble by overruling medical staff than it would be in non league or semi pro,

The Amazon doc Jose was complaining the medical team weren’t making players available enough. If Jose Mourinho couldn’t overrule medical teams, then Ange Postecoglou almost certainly can’t.
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I think if you speak to any player or manager they will tell you medical staff advice is below what the player or manager says. It’s advice.

That’s just going on what I’ve been told from the people I’ve met or know who either work in the game currently or played it.
Just Google Klopp and Jota if you’re that unconvinced.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Whilst that post brings up some topics to discuss, and I do think Ange needs to take the responsibility now, I tried to search that poster's profile because he is claiming to be a professional football coach/analyst and I can't find any record of any professional work at all. All I can see is another twitter tactico building a following from hindsight criticism's of other coaches' systems.

Doesn't mean that his questions are invalid but also doesn't mean what he's saying need to be taken as facts or aren't missing the context you would get from an actual pro who has worked at that level.
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I see your point and I am aware that the injury situation most likely is more complex than that twitter guy portrayed it as. But Angelos and the medical staff has to takes some/a lots of the blame. I remember Angelos said last season that injuries, like hamstring injuries, is common in his first season at a team but in the second season they'll get used to his methods - but it got much worse.
 
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