Nowhere near, it's horseshit
The attackers is relatively close but as a whole, the two squads are pretty far apart
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Manager Thomas Frank
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Nowhere near, it's horseshit
The attackers is relatively close but as a whole, the two squads are pretty far apart
Indeed the squad he inherited from Emery wasn't bad, it finished 5th and go to the UEFA Cup final, it just wasn't his hence why they underperformed for 2 years because it was being rebuilt.
The Arteta revisionism is killing me, he was doing fuck all and won them the cup playing in a style which Frank is playing now with the previous manager's team, the following season the fans wanted him gone mainly because they were inconsistent and weren't going anywhere - this was the table after the 1-0 loss to Burnley AT HOME:
The only thing that bought Arteta time was the pandemic because if there were crowds in the stadium he would have been ousted.
He still won the trophy though regardless of the circumstances and that no doubt bought him faith and time. I thought the indications from early on under Arteta was that he had them going in a good directions despite a few poor runs.
No doubt the pandemic helped but it's speculation to say he'd have been sacked if there was no pandemic.
The board have always been seen to back him 110%
People are forever talking about how shit our squad is and how the players are a bunch of pussies. Objectively, our squad is not top 4 material, but I would submit that it is well capable of comfortably being top 5 or 6.
Forget about injuries for a moment. This squad is stronger than the 2023/2024 and 2024/2025 squads. Yes, we’ve lost Sonny but he was a waning force last season. In the meantime we have added Kudus, Simons, Muani etc. We can argue about their quality, but they are an improvement on what was there last year. Also, the younger players that we had are now a year older and should be maturing and getting better (if they were given a chance to play).
So, we have a squad that, I think it could be argued, is better than the one that finished 5th in 2023/2024.
Last season was a weird one. I don’t know whether we binned the league after January, as suggested by the last manager. It seems unlikely, but is possible. After 12 games last season, iirc, we were doing slightly better in the league than we are now.
Regardless, there was a definite sense that, last season, the main focus was the Europa. Here’s the thing. You can argue all day about the quality of the opposition we faced, but we won the fucking thing. The biggest trophy we’ve won since Noah was a child. The players now being described as pussies showed a warrior spirit and winning mentality in that final. They have the capacity to deliver under extreme pressure, and they did it.
What has changed? Why have we looked rudderless and leaderless in so many games this season? I think Frank might well be a half decent coach, but I am increasingly of the view that he is a terrible manager. It is his job to send the players out with a winning mentality and a desire to give of their best every time they pull on the shirt. They are clearly not doing that. That is on the manager.
He should be given time, but we need to see a completely different mindset, and we need to see it soon.
Forget about injuries for a moment. This squad is stronger than the 2023/2024 and 2024/2025 squads. Yes, we’ve lost Sonny but he was a waning force last season. In the meantime we have added Kudus, Simons, Muani etc. We can argue about their quality, but they are an improvement on what was there last year. Also, the younger players that we had are now a year older and should be maturing and getting better (if they were given a chance to play).
So, we have a squad that, I think it could be argued, is better than the one that finished 5th in 2023/2024.
Last season was a weird one. I don’t know whether we binned the league after January, as suggested by the last manager. It seems unlikely, but is possible. After 12 games last season, iirc, we were doing slightly better in the league than we are now.
Regardless, there was a definite sense that, last season, the main focus was the Europa. Here’s the thing. You can argue all day about the quality of the opposition we faced, but we won the fucking thing. The biggest trophy we’ve won since Noah was a child. The players now being described as pussies showed a warrior spirit and winning mentality in that final. They have the capacity to deliver under extreme pressure, and they did it.
What has changed? Why have we looked rudderless and leaderless in so many games this season? I think Frank might well be a half decent coach, but I am increasingly of the view that he is a terrible manager. It is his job to send the players out with a winning mentality and a desire to give of their best every time they pull on the shirt. They are clearly not doing that. That is on the manager.
He should be given time, but we need to see a completely different mindset, and we need to see it soon.
Woolwich I can make sense of. They've appointed a decent coach. Given him time and invested. They also pay decent wages.
What amazes me more is how quickly Chelsea have bounced back. Wtf can't that happen to us. Just once. I guess IMO:
- our recruitment has been generally not good enough. The buy youngsters only strategy was a disaster
- we're not paying enough in wages
What else? Something about culture and the overly nice pampered training ground lifestyle?
What amazes me more is how quickly Chelsea have bounced back. Wtf can't that happen to us. Just once. I guess IMO:
- our recruitment has been generally not good enough. The buy youngsters only strategy was a disaster
- we're not paying enough in wages
What else? Something about culture and the overly nice pampered training ground lifestyle?
I just want to add, that despite Arteta, it's quite clear Woolwich have been run superbly off the pitch for a while now.
Their scouting, recruitment and investment has been top notch, and they have very talented academy kids coming through. Basically all the things we aren't doing at Spurs sadly.
Their scouting, recruitment and investment has been top notch, and they have very talented academy kids coming through. Basically all the things we aren't doing at Spurs sadly.
I agree with you on the squad. And I think we've seen that in a few games this season. It is a 5th-8th squad and Frank must finish top 8 or be sacked IMO
Mate he finished 8th twice, there was no shoots in his first 2 years, the trophy thing was clearly an exception because he hasn't been able to repeat the trick again, not once and will probably finally do it after spending over £1B.
The Arteta example is just clearly an anomaly here, it's just an exceptional set of circumstances that is never going to repeated ever again.
Yeah, there is no excuse for our academy performance. I have a kid in youth football and while Woolwich and Chelsea are always sniffing around at talent, very rarely are Spurs anywhere.
Why do you think we've recruited Vinai and that former Woolwich CMO?
Agreed, still need to spend though.
The real issue is recruitment, and the wages we just don't offer.
My concern is our academy is nowhere near the level of Woolwich or Chelsea's first of all, but secondly, will our investment match Woolwich's going forward in terms of ambition?
I doubt it
Very true on the wage and recruitment part, I will say that the academy is looking a bit more healthier these days. Woolwich's academy wasn't what it is now 6-7 years ago in fact they spawned one gem in Saka just like we did with Kane.
Trying to compare his start at a Championship team 7 years ago as some model that MIGHT repeat itself... I've heard every defence of Frank, most of them more ridiculous than the next one but this one is comedy gold!!!This was his start at Brentford
I'd much prefer a manager that takes a while to get his ideas across and builds in to the results than one who gets like 90% of this win ration in the first 10 games of the season.
I'd have thought people had gotten over the idea of some mercurial coach flying in and just insta-winning all season, and this whole "not committing to a project" and "keep switching projects".
What? Ok, you really look like simpleton.
I am not suggesting us to play like we did vs Woolwich - it is clear you cannot win games playing like that.
I told that there is very wide-ranging and pre-digested thought that only way to win football match is playing like Pep.
You want examples of VERY different type coaches who does not need 65% possession and 700 passes per game (so your pre-digested "successful style")? Well, from top of my head - Jupp Heynces (humiliated Barcelona with less possession and less passes 7:1 across 2 games) also Hansi Flick as his successor in Bayern, have not watched very big number of his games as Barca manager to say too much about him there, Diego Simeone, Antonio Conte (both his Chelsea days but also recent win with Napoli in Serie A), Carlo Ancellotti who was Real manager for 4 years with huge success. Even Jurgen Klopp approach in Liverpool was significantly different to Pep and Kompany school. Is that enough for you? Or you still want to suggest that we should out-Pep Pep ?!?
At least it's not four or five
Always look on the bright side of life
Chelsea deserve no respect mate. They just bend rules and overpay. Vermin club.
I said before the Chelsea game I'd be happy with a point from our next three games.
However, I am disappointed that we threw away points at ManU, and cowardly players who sat back against a 10 man united team.
I am still happy. Chelsea and Woolwich are going to finish top 4 easy.
Need to give the man time and windows, and if this time next year, things are not improving. Then questions need to be asked.
However, I am disappointed that we threw away points at ManU, and cowardly players who sat back against a 10 man united team.
I am still happy. Chelsea and Woolwich are going to finish top 4 easy.
Need to give the man time and windows, and if this time next year, things are not improving. Then questions need to be asked.
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I can never quite tell if it's purely anti arse sentiment, or people are just plain dumb.
BUT.
There are plenty of metrics and tons of evidence that they were getting progressively better under Arteta. Plenty. PPG, goals for, goals against, league position etc etc etc. It all got better year on year.
That earns coaches more time. I would say more so than the FA Cup win tbh.
The same fans who can't/refuse to see them progressing, also couldn't/refused to see us regressing over 2 seasons under Ange.
Anyone demanding a coach should be given time needs to look at whether they have earned it.