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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
TonySoprano said:
It always was despite what people may claim. And you can add board, and entire footballing management structure to that. This is a massively underperforming football club at all levels.
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Possibly the biggest failing of the ownership issue that there was a perception that more income and revenue would equal more success on the pitch and I believe increasing that revenue was and still is the priority.

In reality, you can have loads of dough but you just piss it up the wall in football without a plan - see Man United. We lack footballing knowledge and know how at the club and it’s really hurting us
 
Fattynomates said:
Do you think Frank might have been bought in as kind of like a stooge, Just thinking everyone is blaming Frank for everything now, in times of past it would have been the "we want Levy or Enic" out chants , now its all on Frank, don't get me wrong I think he is to timid to be the Spurs manager , but by him being here, ENIC are getting cut a lot of Flack, he is just happy to carry on and do his job and will make do with a couple more cheap punts and loan signings to replace last years leading goal scorer.......
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I think you're being kind. It would have just been ineptitude. Dont forget who brought him in as his final passing gift. :levyhands:
 
William Burroughs said:
Yes. Agree.

I think Frank has handled many things wrong. Example by playing Porro and Bentancur and Kudus every match. Even though they havent shown anything for weeks.

He also handled the episode with VDV and Spence wrong. It doesnt seem like he knows how to demand respect on and off the field.
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He's not used to being in this position. Especially at a top club with egos.

Frank was at Brentford for 9 years.

He probably had a rapport with every player at that club before he became the assitant manager and subsequently the manager.

It's the fault of those who recruited Frank for not doing their due dilligence on what he may struggle with.

Of all the candidates I thought Marco Silva was the best for this reason.

He had managed two big clubs already; Sporting and Everton, and had proved himself for a second time at Fulham after a period of adversity at Everton.

Silva probably learned from what went wrong at Everton.

And he's a better coach than Frank.

Who do you think Levy would have preferred?

:levyeyes:
 
White Van Jan said:
and then Ange got into a strop with Werner and didn't pick him after we'd extended his contract. He was the one who could blast down the left and send the ball across for BJ at the far post. So stupid.
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Werner & Brennan nostalgia now then is it?

Bruce Willis Wtf GIF
 
Brian Fantana said:
It seems to be refused to be acknowledged on social media and forums. All the foaming at the mouth getting in the way I suspect. They say it doesnt matter because Frank wont play to suit them. Crystal balls out obviously.

The Angesexuals come back with, well he didnt have Romero and VDV. Well, he did until he injured them. Frank hasnt had any of those 4 start a match for him. (I would have kept Sonny around)
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For me it’s a style issue. Yes we would very likely be more entertaining with the players you mentioned back, but I still believe a fundamental tenet of Franks style is long ball, set pieces and low blocks - which is often very boring.

I also worry about some of the decisions that have been taken whilst he has been at the club - Bentancurs new contract being a big one. Either Frank couldn’t see Bentancur is not up to it, or he kow towed to someone higher up - both scenarios are worrying.

Finally, he is rubbish with the young players - Tel scores and then gets dropped. Bergvall is in and out, no consistency.
 
Kosher Kid said:
He's not used to being in this position. Especially at a top club with egos.

Frank was at Brentford for 9 years.

He probably had a rapport with every player at that club before he became the assitant manager and subsequently the manager.

It's the fault of those who recruited Frank for not doing their due dilligence on what he may struggle with.

Of all the candidates I thought Marco Silva was the best for this reason.

He had managed two big clubs already; Sporting and Everton, and had proved himself for a second time at Fulham after a period of adversity at Everton.

Silva probably learned from what went wrong at Everton.

And he's a better coach than Frank.

Who do you think Levy would have preferred?

:levyeyes:
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That was the problem with Levy... He would swing from extreme... If attacking didn't work, he would flip flop to defensive.

It's been one of the biggest issue and why we have a frankenwank team.

And wee need to stick to one philosophy throughout the club.

Do we play progressive attacking foot and only pick manage that fit the remit, or do play defensive boring bs...

Yes, I know all managers have their own style, but you can still have a philosophy and stick to it, hiring managers that are with the ball park of that philosophy.
 
GinolasLeftFoot said:
That was the problem with Levy... He would swing from extreme... If attacking didn't work, he would flip flop to defensive.

It's been one of the biggest issue and why we have a frankenwank team.

And wee need to stick to one philosophy throughout the club.

Do we play progressive attacking foot and only pick manage that fit the remit, or do play defensive boring bs...

Yes, I know all managers have their own style, but you can still have a philosophy and stick to it, hiring managers that are with the ball park of that philosophy.
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I think it's far simpler than that.

Levy would have had two considerations.

Which candidate will be the cheapest hire.

Which candidate would be easier to manipulate.
 
Brentford's long range passing under Frank:
  • 21 / 22 : 9th in number of attempts & 16th in success rate
  • 22 / 23 : 2nd in number of attempts & 13th in success rate
  • 23 / 24 : 6th in number of attempts & 12th in success rate
  • 24 / 25 : 3rd in number of attempts & 6th in success rate
Short passing:
  • 21 / 22 : 16th in number of attempts & 18th in success rate
  • 22 / 23 : 19th in number of attempts & 19th in success rate
  • 23 / 24 : 15th in number of attempts & 19th in success rate
  • 24 / 25 : 15th in number of attempts & 17th in success rate
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24/25 provides at least tentative evidence that he can get his team to play long / direct in a rather efficient manner, although it could very well be a fluke year. We will never know.

There's a very consistent and scary pattern when it comes to short passing though, confirming that the most realistic expectation regarding a future involving him would be for him to try to optimize this football to the best he can. He won't be a significantly different manager anytime soon.

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Bonus comparison with Nuno's Wolves teams.

Long passing:
  • 18 / 19 : 3rd in number of attempts & 7th in success rate​
  • 19 / 20 : 3rd in number of attempts & 3rd in success rate​
  • 20 / 21 : 6th in number of attempts & 4th in success rate​
Short passing:
  • 18 /19 : 15th in number of attempts & 10th in success rate
  • 19 /20 : 12th in number of attempts & 11th in success rate
  • 20 / 21 : 11th in number of attempts & 6th in success rate
If Nuno struggled here despite previously getting his Wolves teams to excel at direct play in particular, and if Frank's Brentford teams were significantly worse at passing the ball [both short and long] around than Nuno's Wolves teams , I see very little reason to be optimistic.
 
I don’t like him. He is not the answer for our questions, but if we sack him it will cause harm more than benefits. This group of players need to be told that they are the problem not only the managers.
 
Tio Martin said:
All the online supporters I've seen throwing tantrums over Frank's pressers were either mysteriously quiet or went "that's MY manager 😍" when the last guy cupped his ears at us and insulted us for not wanting Woolwich to win the title. Nothing he's said has even come close to the numerous times Ange stopped to glare at supporters while walking down the tunnel.
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"Can you please show the court, on the European Trophy, where the nasty Greek Australian manager touched you" :D
 
Aphex said:
Our fanbase is as unhappy as it's ever been, winning a trophy in May didn't really do much to change that did it.
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Since the Poch years, there's been a sentiment among most of the fanbase that all the club needs to do to kick on is win a trophy. I saw things like "I'd take 15th if it meant winning a trophy" for years. But winning a trophy in of itself was never going to magically fix all the issues with the club because the trophy win needed to be the natural result of progress from top to bottom.

Instead, our trophy came from a historically favorable knockout draw for a UEL finalist. Even then, we needed 10/10 performances from the keeper and all defenders just to terrorball our way to victory against the biggest meme team of the century. Acknowledging that doesn't diminish the prestige of winning the tournament, but the context of the win was never going to lead to an immediate turnaround in the club's direction.

Because we're in the same situation we would have been in had we lost in Bilbao - a bunch of midtable or worse players slapped together with no cohesion or plan who were told a 17th place finish in the league was acceptable, no clear direction from club leadership, and a manager who's expected to get results with our four best attackers from the past season sold or injured with only two players bought to replace them.
 
Richard Splash said:
For me it’s a style issue. Yes we would very likely be more entertaining with the players you mentioned back, but I still believe a fundamental tenet of Franks style is long ball, set pieces and low blocks - which is often very boring.

I also worry about some of the decisions that have been taken whilst he has been at the club - Bentancurs new contract being a big one. Either Frank couldn’t see Bentancur is not up to it, or he kow towed to someone higher up - both scenarios are worrying.

Finally, he is rubbish with the young players - Tel scores and then gets dropped. Bergvall is in and out, no consistency.
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Yes I agree. I thought he would have had us playing a lot better but he cant seem to scale up.

Bergval has been injured hasnt he off and on then dropped for Simons who everyone was calling to play centrally. I like Bergval for his attitude and would have him in playing deeper, he's not got it to play up closer to the goal.

This is the team I compare us to now, look at the players and how we play. Both squads are of similar quality.


View: https://x.com/HotspurMemories/status/2008479605712449834?s=20
 
BJK said:
Brentford's long range passing under Frank:
  • 21 / 22 : 9th in number of attempts & 16th in success rate
  • 22 / 23 : 2nd in number of attempts & 13th in success rate
  • 23 / 24 : 6th in number of attempts & 12th in success rate
  • 24 / 25 : 3rd in number of attempts & 6th in success rate
Short passing:
  • 21 / 22 : 16th in number of attempts & 18th in success rate
  • 22 / 23 : 19th in number of attempts & 19th in success rate
  • 23 / 24 : 15th in number of attempts & 19th in success rate
  • 24 / 25 : 15th in number of attempts & 17th in success rate
------​
24/25 provides at least tentative evidence that he can get his team to play long / direct in a rather efficient manner, although it could very well be a fluke year. We will never know.

There's a very consistent and scary pattern when it comes to short passing though, confirming that the most realistic expectation regarding a future involving him would be for him to try to optimize this football to the best he can. He won't be a significantly different manager anytime soon.

------​
Bonus comparison with Nuno's Wolves teams.

Long passing:
  • 18 / 19 : 3rd in number of attempts & 7th in success rate​
  • 19 / 20 : 3rd in number of attempts & 3rd in success rate​
  • 20 / 21 : 6th in number of attempts & 4th in success rate​
Short passing:
  • 18 /19 : 15th in number of attempts & 10th in success rate
  • 19 /20 : 12th in number of attempts & 11th in success rate
  • 20 / 21 : 11th in number of attempts & 6th in success rate
If Nuno struggled here despite previously getting his Wolves teams to excel at direct play in particular, and if Frank's Brentford teams were significantly worse at passing the ball [both short and long] around than Nuno's Wolves teams , I see very little reason to be optimistic.
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Seems like we did absolutely fuck all due diligence in bringing him in, unless we are going down the self sabotage route. Or thought he would be more attacking. Got it wrong so far.
 
Murphy said:
So, he hasn't won anything then.

We were in Woolwich's position, playing amazing football and not winning anything, with Poch. We were widely derided for it.

We are unhappy because it's shite mate, and we won a competition we were the best team in, despite everything. The 17th is awful and systematic of bad decisions all round. If we'd finished 10th and won it, nobody would be saying anything.

We finished 2nd and 3rd and were laughed at. Here you are thinking Woolwich are amazing for being consistent and doing the same thing.
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If you want to be that pedantic, he won an FA Cup which is already more than Poch ever won. We were also never in Woolwich's position, they've been 2nd three years in a row and have led the table for numerous stretches of the season. I know we like to think it, but we were never credible title challengers at any point under Poch, the scum are. We didn't even finish 2nd in the Leicester season, the scum did. Our actual best season was when Conte won it at Chelsea and they basically ran away with it.

Let's just be real here, we never once looked likely to win the league under Poch. We never had it in our hands, we never bottled it, we just didn't get close. Closer than we've been for a long time yes, but not close enough. Not as close as the scum are the last few years.
 
Talks too much. Says a ot of rubbish but also things that make sense. So what

We didn't sign a bloke to be an orator or a philosopher so whatever he says is completely secondary to what he presides over on the pitch, which is not to say he should keep his trap shut ,but at least wait ntil and if we are doing far better.

The performance on the pitch is more important than any pitch Frank makes off it.
 
Aphex said:
If you want to be that pedantic, he won an FA Cup which is already more than Poch ever won. We were also never in Woolwich's position, they've been 2nd three years in a row and have led the table for numerous stretches of the season. I know we like to think it, but we were never credible title challengers at any point under Poch, the scum are. We didn't even finish 2nd in the Leicester season, the scum did. Our actual best season was when Conte won it at Chelsea and they basically ran away with it.

Let's just be real here, we never once looked likely to win the league under Poch. We never had it in our hands, we never bottled it, we just didn't get close. Closer than we've been for a long time yes, but not close enough. Not as close as the scum are the last few years.
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I do think though if Poch had a billion pounds to spend on the squad and had a better eye for a player then we would have won it all, we had a great starting 11, one of the best in the league but the squad was poor, thats the difference with the Gooners now, they have a squad full of good players, Poch never had that kind of Luxury!
 
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