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Manager Thomas Frank

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Are you Frank Out or In?

  • Total voters
    623
ElTel said:
But it's ok, you carry on believing Ange was backed and every other manager has an excuse for not being backed :frankfacepalm:
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Show me where I said "Ange was backed" in the context you're arguing against.

I said he was "was backed to get rid of Lloris, Hojbjerg, Perisic, and Dier - basically the entire leadership team"

The whole ridiculous point I'm pushing back against is:

Richard Arlison said:
this makes Frank the most backed manager we've ever had
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Yet again you have missed the point. I actually admire the fact that you are completely wedded to defending the current manager in the face of all the irrefutable evidence that he is the epitome of the Peter Principle in action. It's hardly stalking you to suggest to another poster that they are wasting their time trying to have a reasoned discussion with you. Just as I have just wasted five minutes of my life writing this response. At my age, I really don't have that many minutes to waste.
 
Percy Clay said:
Yet again you have missed the point. I actually admire the fact that you are completely wedded to defending the current manager in the face of all the irrefutable evidence that he is the epitome of the Peter Principle in action. It's hardly stalking you to suggest to another poster that they are wasting their time trying to have a reasoned discussion with you. Just as I have just wasted five minutes of my life writing this response. At my age, I really don't have that many minutes to waste.
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You're not even reading the discussion correctly - you seem to spend your valuable time quoting my posts, policing what I can reply to.

The point I was pushing back against is the idea that "Frank (is) the most backed manager we've ever had".

Do you think that is correct? That's what you need to answer to "try to have a reasoned discussion", instead of - quite frankly - coming across like a bit of a child by just posting insults and not actually saying anything resembling a discussion, and certainly with no reasoning.
 
I actually think some people overestimate the "mess" we are in at the club.

Yes some of our recruitment needs to be better, but Gallagher is 100% a good signing, on paper SImons, Muani, Kudus, are decent signings. We need to stop spending money on teenage punts, it's fine alongside other recruitment but it shouldn't be the main focus.

I think we aren't in a terrible place, but the reason it looks so bad is because of Frank doing such an an awful job.

The manager is the most important person at the club. Do you think Villa would be where they are if they had Frank in charge? or Ange? will they fuck. But they have a world class manager and they are top 3.

If we get the right manager in charge, things can change around so quickly.

But Frank needs to go. It's blatantly obvious he isn't elite, he's never going to be, he isn't even great or good, he's not cut out for a big club.

Get rid of him, get the right man in and we can go places.
 
CJJ said:
Show me where I said "Ange was backed" in the context you're arguing against.

I said he was "was backed to get rid of Lloris, Hojbjerg, Perisic, and Dier - basically the entire leadership team"

The whole ridiculous point I'm pushing back against is:
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I just explained to you that for high wage, peak age players added and sold in his first 2 windows, Frank has been backed more than any coach we ever had was in their first 2 windows.

You don't have to like it but it's pretty clear that between us, we worked out that it's true.
 
Percy Clay said:
Yet again you have missed the point. I actually admire the fact that you are completely wedded to defending the current manager in the face of all the irrefutable evidence that he is the epitome of the Peter Principle in action. It's hardly stalking you to suggest to another poster that they are wasting their time trying to have a reasoned discussion with you. Just as I have just wasted five minutes of my life writing this response. At my age, I really don't have that many minutes to waste.
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I'm out.

I tried but bored now.
 
Richard Arlison said:
I just explained to you that for high wage, peak age players added and sold in his first 2 windows, Frank has been backed more than any coach we ever had was in their first 2 windows.

You don't have to like it but it's pretty clear that between us, we worked out that it's true.
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As I said, it's only true if you prefer fiction to facts. It's a very weird way to go about your reasoning.
 
CJJ said:
Show me where I said "Ange was backed" in the context you're arguing against.

I said he was "was backed to get rid of Lloris, Hojbjerg, Perisic, and Dier - basically the entire leadership team"

The whole ridiculous point I'm pushing back against is:
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Your pushing back against a point by using Ange as an example of being backed with 400 mill and some senior players being sold( also he never wanted to sell Perisic) You can defend Frank without claiming a previous manager was backed.

It's clear what the push back should be, no manager has been backed by Levy/ENIC to push this club into a position where we are capable of winning the biggest trophies.
 
ElTel said:
Kane was sold at his peak to Bayern Munich, Son was sold way past his peak to somewhere in LA

I said that no manager is truly backed, including Frank.

Conte wanted Bastoni, he was given Lenglet on loan. That had nothing to do with COVID after effects.

But it's ok, you carry on believing Ange was backed and every other manager has an excuse for not being backed :frankfacepalm:
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I agree the club should have gone balls deep to back Conte but according to Romano, Bastoni didn't want to leave Inter, so there's not much that can be done with that problem.. I suspect there were better options than Lenglet though.

He's still at Inter now IFAIK so that backs up what Romano had said.
 
Aphex said:
I actually think some people overestimate the "mess" we are in at the club.

Yes some of our recruitment needs to be better, but Gallagher is 100% a good signing, on paper SImons, Muani, Kudus, are decent signings. We need to stop spending money on teenage punts, it's fine alongside other recruitment but it shouldn't be the main focus.

I think we aren't in a terrible place, but the reason it looks so bad is because of Frank doing such an an awful job.

The manager is the most important person at the club. Do you think Villa would be where they are if they had Frank in charge? or Ange? will they fuck. But they have a world class manager and they are top 3.

If we get the right manager in charge, things can change around so quickly.

But Frank needs to go. It's blatantly obvious he isn't elite, he's never going to be, he isn't even great or good, he's not cut out for a big club.

Get rid of him, get the right man in and we can go places.
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100% agree with this.

No issue going with Frank per se, but it's nearly certain he can't take us to where we want to be.

The little bit of uncertainty is maybe what the hierarchy are clinging onto but rarely does it go from so bad to so good.

Changing the manager is the right call but knowing who that next manager might be is cause for pause, and I think that offers a glimpse on why Frank is still in a role.

Finding elite is very difficult but long term I am all but sure it won't be Frank.
 
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Aphex said:
I actually think some people overestimate the "mess" we are in at the club.

Yes some of our recruitment needs to be better, but Gallagher is 100% a good signing, on paper SImons, Muani, Kudus, are decent signings. We need to stop spending money on teenage punts, it's fine alongside other recruitment but it shouldn't be the main focus.

I think we aren't in a terrible place, but the reason it looks so bad is because of Frank doing such an an awful job.

The manager is the most important person at the club. Do you think Villa would be where they are if they had Frank in charge? or Ange? will they fuck. But they have a world class manager and they are top 3.

If we get the right manager in charge, things can change around so quickly.

But Frank needs to go. It's blatantly obvious he isn't elite, he's never going to be, he isn't even great or good, he's not cut out for a big club.

Get rid of him, get the right man in and we can go places.
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Gallagher is definitely a good signing- but not what is needed if we have just bought Sarr, Bergvall, and Gray, for the future. It's not that he's a bad player, or a bad value, it's just that it's a glaring admission that the board/exec fucked up and are giving up on the Sarr/Bergvall/Gray project. That's the worst part about the Gallagher signing.

I'll back the absolute fuck out of Gallagher, but I'm angry that board and exec blew this much money on players they didn't plan to support with adequate coaching, or that they advertised these players (Berg/Gray/Sarr) falsely to us as worthy of the fees announced.
 
bk_spur said:
Gallagher is definitely a good signing- but not what is needed if we have just bought Sarr, Bergvall, and Gray, for the future. It's not that he's a bad player, or a bad value, it's just that it's a glaring admission that the board/exec fucked up and are giving up on the Sarr/Bergvall/Gray project. That's the worst part about the Gallagher signing.

I'll back the absolute fuck out of Gallagher, but I'm angry that board and exec blew this much money on players they didn't plan to support with adequate coaching, or that they advertised these players (Berg/Gray/Sarr) falsely to us as worthy of the fees announced.
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I'm ok with them admitting mistakes and would honestly prefer that they just move on rather than persevere with Lange's Project Junior. And getting an actually decent manager in to work with those three could/should still pay off as they're talented.
 
Nuts said:
I'm ok with them admitting mistakes and would honestly prefer that they just move on rather than persevere with Lange's Project Junior. And getting an actually decent manager in to work with those three could/should still pay off as they're talented.
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I appreciate that you are so positive about it. I want to feel that same way! Hate binning off youngsters as it feels like a criminal waste.
 
bk_spur said:
I appreciate that you are so positive about it. I want to feel that same way! Hate binning off youngsters as it feels like a criminal waste.
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I guess it depends on who comes after Frank and how they manage the minutes of the kids. I think having Bergvall as an understudy/rotation option for Gallagher could be a nice balance. Maybe play Gallagher ahead of him against top teams so they can both get into the 11.

And tbh, even before the Gallagher signing I felt we needed to sell Sarr anyway. He's a talented player but I'm not sure quite how he fits in as a regular starter. Probably a good time to cash in and we can probably double our money given we only paid about 10-15m quid for him.

I think cos of Levy we've become a bit too conditioned to hoping/expecting each young signing to be a guaranteed hit or feeling we need to wait for them to become stars. Levy always held on to players too long until they lost value and I think we need to be more ruthless like Chelsea and keep turning over the ones that aren't big successes.

That's actually one of the real benefits of the youth approach: Vuskovic and Bergvall alone could probably earn us a combined 80m profit if we sold them now. Obviously we want to hold on to those two, but they show the huge upside of signing kids if you get it right. Gray's the only one that's really not lived up to his price tag and we could probably still get 20-25m for him from somewhere given his age and verstaility.
 
bk_spur said:
Gallagher is definitely a good signing- but not what is needed if we have just bought Sarr, Bergvall, and Gray, for the future. It's not that he's a bad player, or a bad value, it's just that it's a glaring admission that the board/exec fucked up and are giving up on the Sarr/Bergvall/Gray project. That's the worst part about the Gallagher signing.

I'll back the absolute fuck out of Gallagher, but I'm angry that board and exec blew this much money on players they didn't plan to support with adequate coaching, or that they advertised these players (Berg/Gray/Sarr) falsely to us as worthy of the fees announced.
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I don’t think any of those three are good enough to back….. Berg and Gray still young to be fair but don’t look ready to be first 11 players
 
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