Manager Ange Postecoglou

[AberdeenYid]

I still believe that his system, tactic, strategy, whatever you want to call it, would have worked eventually. If he had another couple of windows to get the players he needed to deliver it properly.

However, his biggest failing, for me, was what also did for Amorim - you don’t have the players to play the system you want to play, so you have to do something else to keep us at a decent level until you do. I really like the arrogance of “this is the way we play and fuck whoever we are playing”. But it’s only a valid point of view if you have the players to deliver.

He should have bent to what was available to him and put aside his strong beliefs until everyone was ready. That he didn’t was a huge failing and I’d suggest he shouldn’t be so proud as to understand this and maybe do things differently next time. If there is to be a next time.

 

[AberdeenYid]

TBH, I see how shit our players have become under Frank the fraud I think the players have in fact over-performed under Ange. Even Gray and Dragusin as CB under Ange defended better than fully fit VdV-Romero under the fraud.

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Not convinced Ange improved anyone, but Frank seems to be making every single player worse.

I’m slowly talking myself onto the Poch Comeback Train, as I recall how well he did in improving most of the players he had under him. Coincidence? Good timing? Skilled management? Who knows, but night and day from where we are now.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Not convinced Ange improved anyone, but Frank seems to be making every single player worse.

I’m slowly talking myself onto the Poch Comeback Train, as I recall how well he did in improving most of the players he had under him. Coincidence? Good timing? Skilled management? Who knows, but night and day from where we are now.

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I still think he did. People can all say he's only a motivational speaker. But if he could talk into the players making them better than what they think they are, that's an improvement on the players.

And the clearest example on an improved player will be Brennan. He's never ever going to score this amount goals with us in anywhere else anymore I'm quite sure.

 

[koz]

It’s clear the only time our lads have performed has been in spite of the manager. When they needed to step up.
I heard Madders comments about how much they loved playing with each other under Ange despite losing but looking around and seeing 18 year olds playing out of poison … he was given no budget and no money to spend but they still loved playing for him and each other.
I wonder what it would be like if Kudus and odebert and Gallagher and xavi would be like on the Ange press and counter.
He turned us into winners. All of that has been forgotten .
I hate where we are

 

[Jenderbazzfass]

Which would be absolutely fine if he had the self-awareness to see his own shortcomings and diligently appoint a coaching staff that compensated for them. Instead he compounded the issue by hiring a bunch of similarly deficient yes men, in a way probably further demonstrating his own arrogance, if he wasn't good at it then it probably isn't important...

It's no surprise on reflection that the best displays under him came in the first few months, it gave a false optimism with the theory that with more time things would get even better as the players got to grips with the "system" and we'd be smashing teams by 3, 4, or 5 goals on the regular. As it transpired, there was no system to speak of really, it was just utter chaosball and so the initial lack of familiarity with what the manager was after was actually the peak, the players couldn't get to grips with anything and become expert at it because there was nothing to get to grips with!

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It should have been obvious quickly, that you can be Coventry and completely break his system by just calmly playing low block against it. Simplest thing in the world. He had no tactics to counter someone refusing to let him play his way, could not instruct players to beat it, and at the top levels of football the athletes are not so far apart as to dominate on pure quality the way he would have done at Celtic against Ross County and the like.

 

[Jenderbazzfass]

It’s clear the only time our lads have performed has been in spite of the manager. When they needed to step up.
I heard Madders comments about how much they loved playing with each other under Ange despite losing but looking around and seeing 18 year olds playing out of poison … he was given no budget and no money to spend but they still loved playing for him and each other.
I wonder what it would be like if Kudus and odebert and Gallagher and xavi would be like on the Ange press and counter.
He turned us into winners. All of that has been forgotten .
I hate where we are

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Ange did not turn the club into winners. No one becomes a winner on the basis of one win. He had to be chucked out with us in 17th place! We set a record for losses in a season!

 

[Jenderbazzfass]

TBH, I see how shit our players have become under Frank the fraud I think the players have in fact over-performed under Ange. Even Gray and Dragusin as CB under Ange defended better than fully fit VdV-Romero under the fraud.

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There is some recency bias at work here... Frank's poor tactics do not make Ange's poor tactics better, they are both far below standard in different ways.

As shocking as things are at present it's not as bad as the football we were seeing one year ago at this time, when it was obvious he'd be sacked as soon as we were out of the cups, yet the historically weak Europa field kept him on

 

[Herclueless]

Ange did not turn the club into winners. No one becomes a winner on the basis of one win. He had to be chucked out with us in 17th place! We set a record for losses in a season!

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I thought winners hate losing, and yet the post you replied to alludes to Maddison talking about loving playing the games despite all the losing, the very bloody opposite of a winning mentality surely!

Absolute joke the amount of people that claim he made us into winners, whilst losing a record number of games in a season and finishing 17th.

And we were fucking boring!

 

[Notabadsquad]

I thought winners hate losing, and yet the post you replied to alludes to Maddison talking about loving playing the games despite all the losing, the very bloody opposite of a winning mentality surely!

Absolute joke the amount of people that claim he made us into winners, whilst losing a record number of games in a season and finishing 17th.

And we were fucking boring!

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100%.

Windows, players, winning mentality blah blah blah.

17th FFS. Normalised losing and posters still find a way to see through all that or talk if he had more time and more windows, because of the Europa win but next to nothing else. Oh sorry, maybe his abolity to talk in a manner that has clearly acted as a shield to the evidence.

Our standards are so low.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

You are entitled to your opinion, but quoting Kyle Walker, you have got to do a lot better than that.

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Why. You are the bloke fond of repeating the canard that if you play or manage you MUST be an expert. You constantly hid behind that as regards the out if his depth Postecoglou. Also prehaps it's simply you dont comprehend context, because I DIDNT QUOTE Kyle Walker no offense but I can't be clearer than use the actual word PARAPHRASE.


paraphrase
verb
express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.
"you can either quote or paraphrase literary texts"

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

I still think he did. People can all say he's only a motivational speaker. But if he could talk into the players making them better than what they think they are, that's an improvement on the players.

And the clearest example on an improved player will be Brennan. He's never ever going to score this amount goals with us in anywhere else anymore I'm quite sure.

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No that's exactly how it doesn't work in my opinion and was the bane of English football mentality for decades. The idea inspiration equals perspiration equates to success.

Tactical innovation, one to one work on individual weaknesses, maximising group strengths and covering flaws. Constant drilling patterns offensive and defensive but allowing a degree of individual expression this improves players and teams. This stuff made Peps teams great.Not inspirational stories about the few in heavily accented English.

I had the joy of watching Poch train the first team a year or so into his tenure and I'll never forget him putting his hands on Rose's shoulders and physically turning him side on at one point in a defensive drill and talking about his distance to the touch line beside him and goalline behind when he did it. About a month later I watched Rose show his winger the line perfectly judge the space and win the goalkick.

The power of the inspirational address well timed can be a lift no doubt. It does not make great consistent winning football teams. Have you ever heard Ferguson or Wenger speak? Trust me its not Pacino in any given Sunday. Fans don't get it and the social media age has full spread the lie.

 

[AberdeenYid]

100%.

Windows, players, winning mentality blah blah blah.

17th FFS. Normalised losing and posters still find a way to see through all that or talk if he had more time and more windows, because of the Europa win but next to nothing else. Oh sorry, maybe his abolity to talk in a manner that has clearly acted as a shield to the evidence.

Our standards are so low.

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Why does it matter what other posters think?

It’s not as if anyone is saying anything massively fucking stupid, like Calvin Bassey being the new Nesta.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Why does it matter what other posters think?

It’s not as if anyone is saying anything massively fucking stupid, like Calvin Bassey being the new Nesta.

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True, so just ignore what I posted.

Unless I am vitriolic or directly abusive it's just styles of writing.

Broad brush.

 

[JimothyCF14]

It’s clear the only time our lads have performed has been in spite of the manager. When they needed to step up.
I heard Madders comments about how much they loved playing with each other under Ange despite losing but looking around and seeing 18 year olds playing out of poison … he was given no budget and no money to spend but they still loved playing for him and each other.
I wonder what it would be like if Kudus and odebert and Gallagher and xavi would be like on the Ange press and counter.
He turned us into winners. All of that has been forgotten .
I hate where we are

Click to shrink...

Thanks for stopping by, Ange

 

[pleb]

Why. You are the bloke fond of repeating the canard that if you play or manage you MUST be an expert. You constantly hid behind that as regards the out if his depth Postecoglou. Also prehaps it's simply you dont comprehend context, because I DIDNT QUOTE Kyle Walker no offense but I can't be clearer than use the actual word PARAPHRASE.


paraphrase
verb
express the meaning of (something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.
"you can either quote or paraphrase literary texts"

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Anything associated with Kyle Walker, especially in wine bars is not appropriate!

 

[Papafeels]

I still believe that his system, tactic, strategy, whatever you want to call it, would have worked eventually. If he had another couple of windows to get the players he needed to deliver it properly.

However, his biggest failing, for me, was what also did for Amorim - you don’t have the players to play the system you want to play, so you have to do something else to keep us at a decent level until you do. I really like the arrogance of “this is the way we play and fuck whoever we are playing”. But it’s only a valid point of view if you have the players to deliver.

He should have bent to what was available to him and put aside his strong beliefs until everyone was ready. That he didn’t was a huge failing and I’d suggest he shouldn’t be so proud as to understand this and maybe do things differently next time. If there is to be a next time.

Click to shrink...

He'd have needed almost two first teams for it to work. It was ineptitude by the board to hire him, not look at previous injury records on his first couple of seasons at his previous clubs. That intense system isn't sustainable for a small squad, as we found out, and when it went wrong, it went wrong horribly.

Not sure it would've worked out in the end, I have my doubts, but no doubt the club didn't do the proper due diligence and the appointment was failed was from the get go.

 

[Percy Clay]

He's have needed almost two first teams for it to work. It was ineptitude by the board to hire him, not look at previous injury records on his first couple of seasons. That intense system isn't sustainable on a small squad, as we found out, and when it went wrong, it went wrong horribly.

Not sure it would've worked out in the end, I have my doubts, but no doubt the club didn't do the proper due diligence and the appointment was failed was from the get go.

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Interesting take. I think you might be right.

 

[Papafeels]

Interesting take. I think you might be right.

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I talked with a lot of Celtic fans, I lived in Edinburgh at the time so seen a lot of SPL games (even took a buddies Hibs season ticket for the year while he was away), and the general was consensus was that they'd be worried about how small our squad was and how patient we'd be. Generally, players get used to it by year 3, which we'll never know. Think it might've even been mentioned on Last Word on Spurs that to play that intense style you need depth at every position.

So yeah, who knows what could've been. Could just be a case that he couldn't translate to the PL either, bit certainly the club put him on the back foot.

 

[McCOYS]

I talked with a lot of Celtic fans, I lived in Edinburgh at the time so seen a lot of SPL games (even took a buddies Hibs season ticket for the year while he was away), and the general was consensus was that they'd be worried about how small our squad was and how patient we'd be. Generally, players get used to it by year 3, which we'll never know. Think it might've even been mentioned on Last Word on Spurs that to play that intense style you need depth at every position.

So yeah, who knows what could've been. Could just be a case that he couldn't translate to the PL either, bit certainly the club put him on the back foot.

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Apparently Slot uses inverted fullbacks and likes to attack, but he had flack from Liverpool supporters when injuries hit and he decided to switch focus more towards defence, until the injured players had recovered, That's what I'd have expected Postecoglou to have done but he just kept telling the players to attack in the face of a depleted squad.

BTW I don't watch Liverpool and my comments about them are based on an article I read about Slot's time there.

 

[Papafeels]

Apparently Slot uses inverted fullbacks and likes to attack, but he had flack from Liverpool supporters when injuries hit and he decided to switch focus more towards defence, until the injured players had recovered, That's what I'd have expected Postecoglou to have done but he just kept telling the players to attack in the face of a depleted squad.

BTW I don't watch Liverpool and my comments about them are based on an article I read about Slot's time there.

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He was definitely too rigid for too long. It wasn't until the AZ games that he finally had a bit of cop on and played a different way. We were pretty decent at the back in those European games though.

But yeah, like I said, who knows how it would've played out this season. I'm of the opinion it was right to sack him. I don't like how they dragged it out, that was outrageously disrespectful, and replacing him with Mr. Anti-football was fucking daft too. But that's life in the circus that is thfc.