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Player Mikey Moore

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Maureen said:
That’s not the point. Clubs have given these players a chance. We need to do the same. See what they can / can’t do.
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Moore should be given the chance all young players in his situation should be. The opportunity in preseason to show the manager he can contribute in the coming season. If he doesn't satisfy RDZ that he can be counted on to take on first team minutes, then he should go out on loan to a team in a competitive league where he can continue to play and develop.

As I said before, better that he comes back a season too late than a season too soon.
 
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Deuterz said:
Dowman isn’t normal if you follow English youth football. He was playing with adults when he was like 13 years old. He’s had freakish early development - does not equate to will be a Rooney or Yamal as development isn’t linear and youth football isn’t predictable but he’s a huge outlier. 99.999% of youth players aren’t as good as he is, players like him or Yamal (NOT comparing ability) who can mix it with the seniors as a teenager are about as rare as it gets.

Moore is really, really good and I’d love to see him in the team and think he could make an impact. If we did go down a season of him starting in the championship could help lighten people’s spirits.
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Spot on, I saw a video on coaching younger players players the other day where they had an old timer from the United academy on. Paul Scholes was playing down a year (they call it playing across now) in his early teens as he wasn’t ready to play at that level with kids his own age.

Development is never linear
 
Deuterz said:
Dowman isn’t normal if you follow English youth football. He was playing with adults when he was like 13 years old. He’s had freakish early development - does not equate to will be a Rooney or Yamal as development isn’t linear and youth football isn’t predictable but he’s a huge outlier. 99.999% of youth players aren’t as good as he is, players like him or Yamal (NOT comparing ability) who can mix it with the seniors as a teenager are about as rare as it gets.

Moore is really, really good and I’d love to see him in the team and think he could make an impact. If we did go down a season of him starting in the championship could help lighten people’s spirits.
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We have seen Dowman in youth football ... he played in the Woolwich teams our lads regularly beat. He had less impact at that level than half a dozen of ours.
 
koko619 said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-tAEuOEV9Q
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"I want to win Trophies over and over again"

Oh No Whatever GIF by slicedbread
 
Crockett said:
We have seen Dowman in youth football ... he played in the Woolwich teams our lads regularly beat. He had less impact at that level than half a dozen of ours.
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Youth football is not predominantly about team results. Dowman is a freak for his age. Against Southampton with a team of seniors he was by far their best player .. he’s the youngest league goalscorer ever, youngest England U19 scorer ever, broke UEFA youth records at 14 etc etc..

Again, it doesn’t mean he will develop in to Yamal but he is a massive standout. He was playing with men when he was 13/14. It’s not realistic to expect our youth players to follow his timeline because he is literally a record breaker and a freak, most 15/16 year olds are still playing academy football not CL football, starting FA cup quarter finals or scoring in the league.

Moore I think will be great, but will likely follow a more normal timeline. Which doesn’t even mean the outcome will be worse either. People develop at different stages and we’ve seen freaks like Owen previously develop too early and then end up with serious injury issues and peaking too young.
 
Deuterz said:
Youth football is not predominantly about team results. Dowman is a freak for his age. Against Southampton with a team of seniors he was by far their best player .. he’s the youngest league goalscorer ever, youngest England U19 scorer ever, broke UEFA youth records at 14 etc etc..

Again, it doesn’t mean he will develop in to Yamal but he is a massive standout. He was playing with men when he was 13/14. It’s not realistic to expect our youth players to follow his timeline because he is literally a record breaker and a freak, most 15/16 year olds are still playing academy football not CL football, starting FA cup quarter finals or scoring in the league.

Moore I think will be great, but will likely follow a more normal timeline. Which doesn’t even mean the outcome will be worse either. People develop at different stages and we’ve seen freaks like Owen previously develop too early and then end up with serious injury issues and peaking too young.
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There's no reason to drag Wenger into this.
 
Deuterz said:
Youth football is not predominantly about team results. Dowman is a freak for his age. Against Southampton with a team of seniors he was by far their best player .. he’s the youngest league goalscorer ever, youngest England U19 scorer ever, broke UEFA youth records at 14 etc etc..

Again, it doesn’t mean he will develop in to Yamal but he is a massive standout. He was playing with men when he was 13/14. It’s not realistic to expect our youth players to follow his timeline because he is literally a record breaker and a freak, most 15/16 year olds are still playing academy football not CL football, starting FA cup quarter finals or scoring in the league.

Moore I think will be great, but will likely follow a more normal timeline. Which doesn’t even mean the outcome will be worse either. People develop at different stages and we’ve seen freaks like Owen previously develop too early and then end up with serious injury issues and peaking too young.
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The best young player on any Premier Leagues teams books by a country mile is ours. Vuskovic is well ahead of Dowman, Moore and the like obviously playing in a different position to them. What happens to him will half dominate our summer, he is a Real or Bayern ready player.
 
Tomo said:
The best young player on any Premier Leagues teams books by a country mile is ours. Vuskovic is well ahead of Dowman, Moore and the like obviously playing in a different position to them. What happens to him will half dominate our summer, he is a Real or Bayern ready player.
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Vuskovic is 3 years older than Dowman & a CB, they’re not in a comparable group of talent really.

He is a monster though - if we want to go anywhere we need to bring him back and convince him to give us some time.
 
Deuterz said:
Youth football is not predominantly about team results. Dowman is a freak for his age. Against Southampton with a team of seniors he was by far their best player .. he’s the youngest league goalscorer ever, youngest England U19 scorer ever, broke UEFA youth records at 14 etc etc..

Again, it doesn’t mean he will develop in to Yamal but he is a massive standout. He was playing with men when he was 13/14. It’s not realistic to expect our youth players to follow his timeline because he is literally a record breaker and a freak, most 15/16 year olds are still playing academy football not CL football, starting FA cup quarter finals or scoring in the league.

Moore I think will be great, but will likely follow a more normal timeline. Which doesn’t even mean the outcome will be worse either. People develop at different stages and we’ve seen freaks like Owen previously develop too early and then end up with serious injury issues and peaking too young.
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So here are his touches vs Southampton. His meaningful impact on the game is virtually nil.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhbUaC3gOtw
 
Crockett said:
So here are his touches vs Southampton. His meaningful impact on the game is virtually nil.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhbUaC3gOtw
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View: https://x.com/billycarpy/status/2040554915823600126?s=20

That’s at 16. When you have Martinelli, Havertz, Odegaard etc playing - fully developed seniors on hundreds of grand a week.

The only meaningful impact isn’t just scoring or assisting.

I’m not gonna go too in depth on this one as it isn’t the bloody Dowman thread - the point isn’t “how great is Dowman!” it’s that we shouldn’t be expecting everyone to be as developed at 16 & Moore isn’t in that total freak category.

You can think he’s a load of shit, it doesn’t really matter or change the point. Use Rooney or Yamal if you want.
 
Deuterz said:

View: https://x.com/billycarpy/status/2040554915823600126?s=20

That’s at 16. When you have Martinelli, Havertz, Odegaard etc playing - fully developed seniors on hundreds of grand a week.

The only meaningful impact isn’t just scoring or assisting.

I’m not gonna go too in depth on this one as it isn’t the bloody Dowman thread - the point isn’t “how great is Dowman!” it’s that we shouldn’t be expecting everyone to be as developed at 16 & Moore isn’t in that total freak category.

You can think he’s a load of shit, it doesn’t really matter or change the point. Use Rooney or Yamal if you want.
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I don't think he is "shit". I just think what you are saying is way over the top. I am not even sure he has had the impact for them that Wilshere and Walcott had at just about the same age.

If you look at the clips he got the ball because Southampton logically doubled up on senior players. How many of his touches lead to anything useful? He takes the ball out of play, plays a simple pass backwards or gives it to the goalie most of the time.
 
Crockett said:
I don't think he is "shit". I just think what you are saying is way over the top. I am not even sure he has had the impact for them that Wilshere and Walcott had at just about the same age.
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Wilshere didn’t debut till nearly 17, and wasn’t making a meaningful impact till 19. Walcott also didn’t debut till 17 and didn’t get his first league goal till almost 19.

This is what I mean. It’s just wrong, it’s not opinion it’s objectivity. Dowman debut at 15, scored and assisted at 16, starting cup quarters at 16 and being their most impactful player.

We’re talking about very different stages of development - Moore now is starting to really kick off at 18 which is a lot more normal, and we can maybe hope to see him consistently impact premier league games at 19/20.
 
Deuterz said:
Wilshere didn’t debut till nearly 17, and wasn’t making a meaningful impact till 19. Walcott also didn’t debut till 17 and didn’t get his first league goal till almost 19.

This is what I mean. It’s just wrong, it’s not opinion it’s objectivity. Dowman debut at 15, scored and assisted at 16, starting cup quarters at 16 and being their most impactful player.

We’re talking about very different stages of development - Moore now is starting to really kick off at 18 which is a lot more normal, and we can maybe hope to see him consistently impact premier league games at 19/20.
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Well "nearly 17" is ... 16.
I have nothing against Dowman, apart from who he plays for, but I don't see anything that separates him from Reece Oxford or others that made their debut at 16.
Dowman has been the 11th man in a highly successful team where the opposition has a lot of other things to worry about, so he gets time and space on the ball. When Aaron Lennon was in the same situation at 16 he genuinely did tear it up.
 
Crockett said:
Well "nearly 17" is ... 16.
I have nothing against Dowman, apart from who he plays for, but I don't see anything that separates him from Reece Oxford or others that made their debut at 16.
Dowman has been the 11th man in a highly successful team where the opposition has a lot of other things to worry about, so he gets time and space on the ball. When Aaron Lennon was in the same situation at 16 he genuinely did tear it up.
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Then there is nothing I can really say as I think just from watching one game (or his cameo vs Everton) you can see what separates him from these players. You’re entitled to view it otherwise.

The point he was used to make remains the same.
 
Deuterz said:
Then there is nothing I can really say as I think just from watching one game (or his cameo vs Everton) you can see what separates him from these players. You’re entitled to view it otherwise.

The point he was used to make remains the same.
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I don't have any problem at all with the original point. The way we have failed our own young players is criminal.
 
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