did you read the article?
His behaviour is questionable to say the least, but the distinction between rape and the events reported are blurred to say the least.
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If Ched Evans was a decent player
- Thread starter Blanchflower
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His behaviour is questionable to say the least, but the distinction between rape and the events reported are blurred to say the least.
yeah i did read it and i must admit it didnt seem that clear cut me, like how did he get done and not the other fella? i wasnt at the trial so i cant comment on what evidence was produced but didnt seem clear to me one way or the other
which I think was the point of the piece - the anomaly of one being a rapist and not the other, plus the "victims" boasting of a payday.
Personally I think the guy deserves jail time for having the morals of an alley cat, but I don't think there's a law that supports that.
The whole issue is a sad reflection on everyone involved in it - but the legal distinction of consent is the thing that needs the biggest scrutiny. I think the guy has been the victim of poor judicial treatment. Villifying him and preventing him from being able to go back to work is compounding the problem.
Thats the thing, I would never in a million years condone rape and think its a despicable crime. But if in the eyes of the law he is deemed to have served the appropriate sentence then why should someone who comes out of the other side be further persecuted? If the punishment is deemed insufficient then surely it is the law that needs to reflect this otherwise he may aswell have been given life.
This is my thinking to ive been talking about this where i work and you get some funny looks just because of the crime he has commited. Like you i would never condone what he has done but i thought we were a society that gave people second chances and not punished them for the rest of there life
Moreover as I asked before how many of the guys on here have been raped* by women by that standard? Waking up with someone not sure how you ended up in bed together? I'd be surprised if it was less than a third of us. That's just as bad as what happened with Evans but would you want to see that girl sent down for it? Lose everything over it? Be stigmatised as a rapist forevermore? Have campaigns to stop her getting a job when she comes out?
Not defending date rape by any means but this is a slippery slope we're on and one which is hugely geared against one gender. You can't go sending people down, especially with such a stigmatised offence, without proper proof and clear evidence, not just hunches and gut feeling.
There must have been more to it (Evans) than the evidence I've seen, because if not the whole system is fucked, and I'd rather not believe that.
Not defending date rape by any means but this is a slippery slope we're on and one which is hugely geared against one gender. You can't go sending people down, especially with such a stigmatised offence, without proper proof and clear evidence, not just hunches and gut feeling.
There must have been more to it (Evans) than the evidence I've seen, because if not the whole system is fucked, and I'd rather not believe that.
*I appreciate the definition of rape is stupidly requiring forced penetration by the man, not forced envelopment, but we all know it's the same thing
Greg Dyke on Newsnight ''It's not important''.
Why is this beautiful game's two most powerful positions ran by utter buffoons?
Why is this beautiful game's two most powerful positions ran by utter buffoons?
Not really fair, [he IS a buffoon] but that quote is taken out of context, Kuenssberg ambushed him on the Ched Evans question. He was there to talk about FIFA corruption. Dirty play from her. Red card for her and an early bath...............:chadliblow:
If the rapist cunt ever came anywhere near our team i would never set foot in WHL or watch the team ever again.
The main argument purported by the Evans apologists seems to be 'if she is too pissed to say no then it is not rape'. A disgusting attitude & morally abhorrent.
The main argument purported by the Evans apologists seems to be 'if she is too pissed to say no then it is not rape'. A disgusting attitude & morally abhorrent.
From what I've read on the case, obviously not a full outline, I don't think Evans raped her. The evidence shown in court may show otherwise but from what's been made public it seems the girl has a lot to answer for. She text her friends bragging, then cries rape. Doesn't make sense to me. Also, find it hard to believe one is innocent and the other guilty but who knows what was presented fully in court.
This is a witch-hunt. It may be justified, but from what I've read he's hardly the spawn of Satan he's made out to be.
That said, I wouldn't want him at Spurs unless I was given all the evidence and can draw my own conclusions fully. Until then, he's guilty of rape and I don't want him at my club.
This is a witch-hunt. It may be justified, but from what I've read he's hardly the spawn of Satan he's made out to be.
That said, I wouldn't want him at Spurs unless I was given all the evidence and can draw my own conclusions fully. Until then, he's guilty of rape and I don't want him at my club.
Not from me it isn't. (ie the excuse you quoted)
My unease about all of this is the fact that she was clearly trawling for a "footballer," she boasted about a payday and as far as I can see from the evidence reported (ie, I wasn't in court, so what I have read is all I can go on) it seems that they were all as inebriated as each other. If they are all hammered and "getting it on" why is the man to blame? and for that matter, why is it only one of them, and not both?
If Evans is guilty of rape - then why wasn't his mate guilty of aiding and abetting (if that is a legal term for telling your mate to "tuck in.")
As I said - I really don't think any of them come out looking particularly clever or any one of them on a higher moral ground than the other over their behaviour that night.
You are totally right about the circumstances you used as an example - I just don't see that it describes the events as they were reported.
I have mentioned before on here that I was convicted of a crime that I didn't committ, 3 years I got despite being innocent. I won my appeal, but only after serving a year inside. I constantly pleaded my innocence which doesn't go down to well with those working in the prison system.
Ched Evans keeps telling the world that he is innocent, I can identify with that, so why should he show remorse or apologise if he believes he is innocent?
Only the 3 people in that hotel room know the truth, but my gut feeling is something is wrong in this case, sober enough for consent with the first footballer but too drunk to remember giving consent with the 2nd!!!
If anyone serves time for a crime, then they have paid their debt to society, they should be allowed to gain employment and once again become a productive member of the community. If ex offenders are stopped from doing this then our world becomes crime ridden.
There appears to be another appeal hearing on the horizon, let's hope they can get to the truth of this saga one way or the other.
Ched Evans keeps telling the world that he is innocent, I can identify with that, so why should he show remorse or apologise if he believes he is innocent?
Only the 3 people in that hotel room know the truth, but my gut feeling is something is wrong in this case, sober enough for consent with the first footballer but too drunk to remember giving consent with the 2nd!!!
If anyone serves time for a crime, then they have paid their debt to society, they should be allowed to gain employment and once again become a productive member of the community. If ex offenders are stopped from doing this then our world becomes crime ridden.
There appears to be another appeal hearing on the horizon, let's hope they can get to the truth of this saga one way or the other.
I voted yes. Not afraid to out myself.
Having read into the case, I genuinely believe the bloke didn't rape the girl. As Mick has constantly mentioned, the girl was out for a footballer and a pay day.
So many inconsistencies with this case. Just because he has been found guilty doesn't mean he is. For all we know the jury could have 12 Harriet Harmans sitting.
Just read into the case a bit deeper and you'll be surprised..
Having read into the case, I genuinely believe the bloke didn't rape the girl. As Mick has constantly mentioned, the girl was out for a footballer and a pay day.
So many inconsistencies with this case. Just because he has been found guilty doesn't mean he is. For all we know the jury could have 12 Harriet Harmans sitting.
Just read into the case a bit deeper and you'll be surprised..
i voted yes as I already said earlier on.
Bit unnecessary. I voted no but there is a reasonable conversation to be had and decent reasons for voting yes.
I don't see why people are trying to block him returning to football. It's a symptom of the twitter generation to be honest. Rhyl is generally full of drug addicts and easy girls, so it's beyond me why he's being treated in such a way based on what has been revealed of the case.
Even forgetting the likes of Mike Tyson, who was convicted of Rape and continued (still does tbf) to rake in absolute millions of dollars with no after effect, it seems like the world is just fucked these days and everyone feels like they have the right to an opinion based on zero knowledge of the case itself.
Here's a quick reminder of other footballers who have done time and returned to the game:
Joey Barton - Assault (6m), ABH (6 months susp); 77 days served in jail
Tony Adams - Drink Driving; 4 times over limit (4 months); 2 months served in jail
Lee Hughes - Death by Dangerous Driving (6 years); 3 years served in jail
Gary Croft - Driving whilst disqualified & perverting course of justice (1 month)
Marlon King - Sexual Assault (18 mnths), Dangerous Driving (18 mnths)
Luke McCormick - Dangerous Driving & UI - killed 2 kids (7y 4mnths); served around half that
Jan Molby - Dangerous Driving (3 months)
Jermain Pennant - Driving offences (3 months)
Micky Quinn - Driving whilst banned (14 days)
Duncan Ferguson - Assault (3 months)
Whilst I don't have an opinion related to the thread, it seems ridiculous how people judge the guy considering the extremity of the sentence, considering how it could happen to absolutely any guy out there - imagine that, plus a few years in jail and then sentenced to a life at national minimum wage because people think that they have the right to choose what you should or shouldn't be able to do for a living after you've served the sentence.
Even forgetting the likes of Mike Tyson, who was convicted of Rape and continued (still does tbf) to rake in absolute millions of dollars with no after effect, it seems like the world is just fucked these days and everyone feels like they have the right to an opinion based on zero knowledge of the case itself.
Here's a quick reminder of other footballers who have done time and returned to the game:
Joey Barton - Assault (6m), ABH (6 months susp); 77 days served in jail
Tony Adams - Drink Driving; 4 times over limit (4 months); 2 months served in jail
Lee Hughes - Death by Dangerous Driving (6 years); 3 years served in jail
Gary Croft - Driving whilst disqualified & perverting course of justice (1 month)
Marlon King - Sexual Assault (18 mnths), Dangerous Driving (18 mnths)
Luke McCormick - Dangerous Driving & UI - killed 2 kids (7y 4mnths); served around half that
Jan Molby - Dangerous Driving (3 months)
Jermain Pennant - Driving offences (3 months)
Micky Quinn - Driving whilst banned (14 days)
Duncan Ferguson - Assault (3 months)
Whilst I don't have an opinion related to the thread, it seems ridiculous how people judge the guy considering the extremity of the sentence, considering how it could happen to absolutely any guy out there - imagine that, plus a few years in jail and then sentenced to a life at national minimum wage because people think that they have the right to choose what you should or shouldn't be able to do for a living after you've served the sentence.