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Manager Ange Postecoglou

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Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 73 64.6%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.4%

  • Total voters
    113
This is Ange's 2nd year...Poch's 2nd year was the Leicester year where we were not dogged by inconsistent 1 up 1 down performances and results. I would not expect this level of inconsistency in a manager's 2nd year...I would expect clear and naked-eye level improvement. We had that back then and we don't have it now...and we hadn't purchased 'ready made world class champions'.

What is this revisionism?

In our first 16 in 2015/2016 we

P16 W6 D8 and L2

We drew against Stoke, West Brom, Leicester, Everton and Swansea.

The league that season was the least competitive it has been for some time with the winners on 81 and 2 place on 71.

If Poch had actually been consistent throughout that season we could have won the league.
 
This is Ange's 2nd year...Poch's 2nd year was the Leicester year where we were not dogged by inconsistent 1 up 1 down performances and results. I would not expect this level of inconsistency in a manager's 2nd year...I would expect clear and naked-eye level improvement. We had that back then and we don't have it now...and we hadn't purchased 'ready made world class champions'.
Poch had better talent at his disposal at the start of his second year. Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane were all simply superior to what Postecoglou now has.
 
Poch had better talent at his disposal at the start of his second year. Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane were all simply superior to what Postecoglou now has.
People keep saying that and it's colored by the improvement in the player's profiles as a RESULT of playing under Poch and not because ANY of them were considered world beaters before he laid his holy hands upon them...not a single one! Dembele didn't come 'alive' until after the November game with Liverpool (Klopp's first game). In fact, Dembele was looking to leave that summer and had serious sit downs with Poch over the summer but still only played out on the RW FFS.

What you suggest is a fallacy, it's revision and it's egregious revision...for most every player on that list; Walker was a walking brainfart, Rose was shite, Vertonghen was moping his way out the club, Toby was a 11M get from his LOAN from Soton to Atleti..that's right, he couldn't get into the Southampton team, Eriksen was weak and underwhelming, Sonny was new and struggling to fit in so much that he and the club were entertaining sending him back to the BuLi only to be convinced by the personal plea of Poch, Dele was new and so great that he played all of about 41 minutes in his first 3 games, and Kane only had a few month of mild success but was nothing at that point in the season.

Feel free to check the data...
 
How many of our players would any of the top 4 want to sign , arguably a couple max 3 I would think . Let’s not pretend we should be tearing up the league , our team is far from top drawer and our squad is shallow .

We were allowed to regress and are trying to play catch up on a budget of salary reduction
 
Poch had better talent at his disposal at the start of his second year. Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane were all simply superior to what Postecoglou now has.
Poch improved players no question. Read his book and said he went out of his way to help ryan mason who was a young player and struggling to make any impression. He made a career for mason in some capacity. Poch imo was a pioneer and we were the benchmark for other clubs. Poch was too polite for own good imo. Twice he said we needed a rebuild before burnley away and munich in audi cup. Not sure though levy hung him out to dry after poch had that meeting with ferguson in london. Understandable by levy if poch had his head turned.
 
People keep saying that and it's colored by the improvement in the player's profiles as a RESULT of playing under Poch and not because ANY of them were considered world beaters before he laid his holy hands upon them...not a single one! Dembele didn't come 'alive' until after the November game with Liverpool (Klopp's first game). In fact, Dembele was looking to leave that summer and had serious sit downs with Poch over the summer but still only played out on the RW FFS.

What you suggest is a fallacy, it's revision and it's egregious revision...for most every player on that list; Walker was a walking brainfart, Rose was shite, Vertonghen was moping his way out the club, Toby was a 11M get from his LOAN from Soton to Atleti..that's right, he couldn't get into the Southampton team, Eriksen was weak and underwhelming, Sonny was new and struggling to fit in so much that he and the club were entertaining sending him back to the BuLi only to be convinced by the personal plea of Poch, Dele was new and so great that he played all of about 41 minutes in his first 3 games, and Kane only had a few month of mild success but was nothing at that point in the season.

Feel free to check the data...

Toby was on loan from Atletico to Southampton. He was really good for them and they wanted to sign him but couldn’t.
 
What is this revisionism?

In our first 16 in 2015/2016 we

P16 W6 D8 and L2

We drew against Stoke, West Brom, Leicester, Everton and Swansea.

The league that season was the least competitive it has been for some time with the winners on 81 and 2 place on 71.

If Poch had actually been consistent throughout that season we could have won the league.
I thought picking 16 games was an odd number, so I had a look. It doesn't match the amount of games we've played so far this season nor the amount of games played up until this date in that season.

If we look at the first 12 games of that season, it was P12 W5 D6 L1 -> 21 points on the board.
If we look at the games played up until todays date, it was P14 W6 D7 L1 -> 25 points on the board.

I don't have to point out that the record and more importantly the points tally at both stages above was better than what we have this season.

If we dig a little deeper, we can see that in those games, we'd played United, City, Liverpool, Woolwich & Chelsea up until today's date and we only had 1 loss which was on the opening day against United, but managed to not lose against the other top 4/5 teams as it was back then.

So it brings me back to why on earth would he select the 16th game of the season to compare results of this season to that??

Because that was when we lost our second game of the season, imagine only losing your 2nd game in December, anything to defend your idol losing 6 times and we've only played 12 games, even if it means shitting on the guy who made it a big 6 with us involved and you have the cheek to talk about revisionism??
 
How many of our players would any of the top 4 want to sign , arguably a couple max 3 I would think . Let’s not pretend we should be tearing up the league , our team is far from top drawer and our squad is shallow .

We were allowed to regress and are trying to play catch up on a budget of salary reduction
whos 4th? chelsea i suppose isnt it.

is our first 11/16 much weaker if at all? our CB's are better, keeper is better. fullbacks probably not much in it, midfield not much in it, they have better wide forwards but id take solanke over jackson.

they have one special player in palmer. james would be but hes never fit for longer than 5 mins so you cant include him.
 
Fuck me can someone please perform an intervention on Daveyboyhitlernumbers before he posts another more Talkshite bollocks :ange-confused:
 
People keep saying that and it's colored by the improvement in the player's profiles as a RESULT of playing under Poch and not because ANY of them were considered world beaters before he laid his holy hands upon them...not a single one! Dembele didn't come 'alive' until after the November game with Liverpool (Klopp's first game). In fact, Dembele was looking to leave that summer and had serious sit downs with Poch over the summer but still only played out on the RW FFS.

What you suggest is a fallacy, it's revision and it's egregious revision...for most every player on that list; Walker was a walking brainfart, Rose was shite, Vertonghen was moping his way out the club, Toby was a 11M get from his LOAN from Soton to Atleti..that's right, he couldn't get into the Southampton team, Eriksen was weak and underwhelming, Sonny was new and struggling to fit in so much that he and the club were entertaining sending him back to the BuLi only to be convinced by the personal plea of Poch, Dele was new and so great that he played all of about 41 minutes in his first 3 games, and Kane only had a few month of mild success but was nothing at that point in the season.

Feel free to check the data...

All very true.

I'd just observe that similar could be said for Ange immediately bringing Udogie, Sarr through and handing Bissouma the keys to the midfield.

Giving Porro the platform to excel in the areas he's best at. Identifying Mickey as the right CB at the right time. And this season helping Kulu become one of the better players in the comp.

Ange is no Poch but Poch had premier league experience before coming to us. Poch learned - I don't see why Ange can't too?

And if he can't he gets sacked. That's football. It's normal.

What's weird is the likes of Daveyboyhitlernumbers and Nasm who actively enjoy us losing and drawing because they hate the manager so much.
 
All very true.

I'd just observe that similar could be said for Ange immediately bringing Udogie, Sarr through and handing Bissouma the keys to the midfield.
Pretty sure Sarr & Udogie had Ligue 1 and Serie A seasons under their belts respectively but sure lets give the credit to Angelos.
Giving Porro the platform to excel in the areas he's best at. Identifying Mickey as the right CB at the right time. And this season helping Kulu become one of the better players in the comp.
Apparently we don't have a scouting department and aren't data led, it's all down to big Ange identifying the talent, explains why we have players like Johnson & Werner at least and also how he was bringing through players in Ligue 1 and Serie A.
Ange is no Poch but Poch had premier league experience before coming to us. Poch learned - I don't see why Ange can't too?
He had experience in La Liga as well, so that's 2 of the traditional top 5 leagues as well as being an Argentinian international as a player before being given the job here, whereas Angelos did what?
And if he can't he gets sacked. That's football. It's normal.

What's weird is the likes of Daveyboyhitlernumbers and Nasm who actively enjoy us losing and drawing because they hate the manager so much.
Another coward without the bollocks to @ someone.

What's weird is the outright cultist belief and defence of a manager who's literally never managed at this level before and the results and inconsistency clearly show that. Steven Gerrard wouldn't get this level of defence after what's been served up neither would Brendan Rodgers or Neil Lennon, very cultish.
 
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