agreed he looked really unhealthy and like he's aged 10 years in the post match. i swear he's lost weight and not in a good way
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Manager Ange Postecoglou
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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The results haven’t been good enough. No one can disagree with that. We’re 12th.
There are some contextual reasons why and a few of those are independent of Ange but many were within Ange’s control.
Ange needs to take responsibility for the results. His performance has brought excitement and an attacking style of play but not results.
He shouldn’t be wacked with so long left in the season because all of the short term options are less proven, and more of a speculative punt than he is. If it turns out his vastly less experienced replacement is worse come March and we’ve fallen even lower and there are still 10 weeks of the season then what do we do then?
Stick for now but monitor closely.
There are some contextual reasons why and a few of those are independent of Ange but many were within Ange’s control.
Ange needs to take responsibility for the results. His performance has brought excitement and an attacking style of play but not results.
He shouldn’t be wacked with so long left in the season because all of the short term options are less proven, and more of a speculative punt than he is. If it turns out his vastly less experienced replacement is worse come March and we’ve fallen even lower and there are still 10 weeks of the season then what do we do then?
Stick for now but monitor closely.
Something I have been thinking about is are some of the players getting lazily tagged with 'past it/shite' when in actual fact it's a lunatic system and poor coaching holding them back?
For instance, Son is admittedly aging but he has been utter garbage throughout most of Ange's reign to the point the consensus is that 'his legs are clearly gone' etc. I don't dispute he could be past his peak but is it beyond the scope of imagination that under a different manager there is still more useful form to be coaxed out of him?
And look at Brennan Johnson. I don't think he is good enough for Spurs and think we should never have bought him like many have said here, let alone for the insane price he was purchased. But is there a better player there still we are not extracting and has our poor coaching let him down in being able to improve? I'm not saying there is a diamond of a player there but is there a way we can adjust to his strengths more or limit his weaknesses.
Sadly, this won't happen at Ange's Spurs because it's his (one and only) way or nothing. That's poor management and nowhere near good enough for a Premier League side.
This isn't a good Tottenham team but it should be nowhere being in discussion with 90s Spurs which is where we are as we now look down the table rather than up it despite being in the bottom half. Board and management neglect have got us here and sadly right now only one of them have a short term chance of being changed and improved.
For instance, Son is admittedly aging but he has been utter garbage throughout most of Ange's reign to the point the consensus is that 'his legs are clearly gone' etc. I don't dispute he could be past his peak but is it beyond the scope of imagination that under a different manager there is still more useful form to be coaxed out of him?
And look at Brennan Johnson. I don't think he is good enough for Spurs and think we should never have bought him like many have said here, let alone for the insane price he was purchased. But is there a better player there still we are not extracting and has our poor coaching let him down in being able to improve? I'm not saying there is a diamond of a player there but is there a way we can adjust to his strengths more or limit his weaknesses.
Sadly, this won't happen at Ange's Spurs because it's his (one and only) way or nothing. That's poor management and nowhere near good enough for a Premier League side.
This isn't a good Tottenham team but it should be nowhere being in discussion with 90s Spurs which is where we are as we now look down the table rather than up it despite being in the bottom half. Board and management neglect have got us here and sadly right now only one of them have a short term chance of being changed and improved.
There was different context around the Palace and Ipswich performances.... that's not to say it's not still on Ange to get us winning but I've just seen Chelsea pick up 2 points from playing Everton, Ipswich and Palace. The league this year..... no one can call any game outside of Liverpool winning or Southampton losing.
Newcastle were looking down and out 6 weeks ago. Now they are flying.
Again, it's still on Ange to get us winning and he can't, so his job should not be secure but injuries can be a reason right now, and other things can be true at other times. Teams can just turn up and play shit like we did vs Palace. I've seen every Spurs manager turn up and play dogshit football against every kind of opposition going.
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Totally mate, and there’s a lot of this I do agree with.
I can’t remember if it was early this season or late last by people were criticising our set piece defending record, Villa had conceded one less than us, and no one mentioned it, not the media, and not many fans. So totally some of it is overblown, however, someone else being nearly as bad doesn’t excuse us being bad at it (I know that’s not what you were saying) but Ange doesn’t help with his stupid comments around set pieces and not being interested in them - that’s not a serious footy manager for me.
His previous experience, for me the SPL is a one team league, and Japan and Aus, fine, probably decent enough leagues to win in an “in itself’ context. They aren’t a good barometer of being a success here though, and I don’t blame him for that, I blame Levy and co, after all tis time they should be able to weigh up the evidence and not offer the job based on his CV so to speak. I don’t blame Ange for taking a job that’s above him, he had to try, the moneys good, he’s just ended up not being capable.
I mentioned the games where people just say the opposition was poor, I still think beating City, United and Villa in the way we did were good results we earned. I also thought we deserved at the very least a point yesterday. There are people here who will be negative no matter what, in the same way people will be positive no matter what.
I think it’s good you can still be positive for him and give him a bit of time, I’ve just reached a point where I feel like his talent has run out now. I honestly think you could give him better players, and it won’t work out. I want someone else to spend that money on us.
Let's face it - most fans have given up (Baldcunt has won).
And Ange is the way they have chosen for this club to go out.
It's not about pragmatism, it's about the way he conduct's himself in press conference's and by far much more importantly how he sends out his staring 11 to play the style of football he plays which leaves sooo much space in our midfield allowing our back 4, back 2 most of the time, to be exploited. This on top of the fact our injury list shows how demanding on the squad his approach is, which will eventually see our top players thinking, fuck this lark and our younger group being drained of all confidence with each defeat at the hands of this halfwit.
Just the natural cycle of the Commonly spotted Spurs Manager, mate. Happens like clockwork on 18 months
But if you actually use the players as a barometer of how the players feel about Ange...
To me, they all are still completely on board with him.
Apart from Maddison who wants to go and join Emerson Royal at AC Milan or something...
What else are they gonna say. For now they have to tow the party line. Having said that I would say that some "discontent" has been muted with one or 2 comments from players, Kulu being one and didn't Romero say something to a newspaper in Argentina? I stand to be corrected on that.
I agree some people are not being fair, but Chelsea at home comes up so often because it was for many of us a real sliding doors moment - one where Ange's naivety and tactical problems were seriously exposed for the first time and left us with more questions than answers.
There are some people who are always unhappy and use the club's travails to vent. That's undeniably true. For some of us though it's just a question of boosting the win percentage and being a bit more pragmatic - there's a lot to like in wanting to play front foot, attacking football, but ALL good managers learn and adapt to what they have at their disposal. I am repeating myself but Ange's stubbornness will be his undoing.
That’s some crazy shit bro… don’t know how they did that and they’re still 12 points ahead of us.
.. which is roughly at least once a week.
Dunno, you can call us losing with more or less solid accuracy. Ten league defeats already. Of late predicting a Spurs loss is basically printing money.
This system won’t improve because you can’t be as open as we are in this league. You could have the 11 best players in the world but leave them isolated on the counter you’ll still lose lots of games. Better players will make you lose less because you will create more,score more and be able to keep the ball better but we’d still concede or give the opposition chances.
There needs to be a change in style to make it harder for teams and a change in style to stop our front three being so rigid and predictable. We know exactly how we are going to play every game every week under Ange whether it works or not. Results tell us that it doesn’t work.
Romero came out and publicly backed him when he didn't need to whilst at the same time criticised the board so all that towing the party line crap is purely nonsense.
They are not ignoring context. People (me included) posted loads of times that things were not looking so good even with the whole team fit at the start of the season, and in the second part of the last season too. What’s up with that, have you missed it or you’ve just decided to ignore it and cherry picked what you felt like to defend Postecoglou?
Oh come on. You really believe that players 'tow the party line' when unhappy?
If the squad was generally unhappy with Ange we would definitely be hearing about it.
Romero was just following Conte’s lead - slap the board up in the press for an easy summer transfer.