Manager Ange Postecoglou

[Shadydan]

Too bad our points and league placement are down.

The point is its all relative and if you aren't doing better in the table- the only place it actually matters- then there's not actually been any real improvement. If we didn't improve as much as other teams then we didn't actually become more competitive.

I understand you think there's been more of an injury crisis this year as opposed to last year. I don't really think it's been that much different, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

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Our points and league placement is down mainly due to an injury crisis, that's just a cast iron fact.

And that wasn't really the point at all, he was talking about the narrative that people (including some of our own fans) think that he cannot coach a defence when in truth is that we had some of the highest defensive numbers in the league before the crisis hit.

And what he's specifically talking about is the continus BS about the supposed high line, weak at corners, amount of shots we were letting in our goal etc...all overly forced narratives and when they did happen it was few and far between.

Before people get their nickers in a twist and wet themselves I'm not excusing the manager's performances, they've been abysmal quite frankly and he's lucky to still be in this job but for balance sake let's have a bit of fairness.

I understand things might be black and white in your world but we need to do more of this context thing because people for some reason hate using it in this thread.

 

[SpursUpNorth]

Too bad our points and league placement are down.

The point is its all relative and if you aren't doing better in the table- the only place it actually matters- then there's not actually been any real improvement. If we didn't improve as much as other teams then we didn't actually become more competitive.

I understand you think there's been more of an injury crisis this year as opposed to last year. I don't really think it's been that much different, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

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Wow.. how can you make that conclusion? We are down on, what is it, fifth and sixth choice on defenders? Two International CBs out for long periods?

 

[bk_spur]

Our points and league placement is down mainly due to an injury crisis, that's just a cast iron fact.

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Strictly speaking- this is absolutely NOT a provable fact- it is your opinion. I don't think this sort of opinion really leads itself to being provable qualitatively.

And that wasn't really the point at all, he was talking about the narrative that people (including some of our own fans) think that he cannot coach a defence when in truth is that we had some of the highest defensive numbers in the league before the crisis hit.

And what he's specifically talking about is the continus BS about the supposed high line, weak at corners, amount of shots we were letting in our goal etc...all overly forced narratives and when they did happen it was few and far between.

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I don't feel like we are much better at corners. We may be having a better run of luck with them though. I personally detest zonal marking, and am continually disappointed Ange seems to insist on it. I need to wait until the end of season to see if any mean reversion occurs with regard to our defensive set piece performance.

Before people get their nickers in a twist and wet themselves I'm not excusing the manager's performances, they've been abysmal quite frankly and he's lucky to still be in this job but for balance sake let's have a bit of fairness.

I understand things might be black and white in your world but we need to do more of this context thing because people for some reason hate using it in this thread.

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I appreciate what you are trying to say. I don't hate you guys for being optimistic about all of this.

We had VdV out for an extended period last season too. Forster for me was not the disaster we thought he would be. We've had injuries and poor performance that seem to result from lack of proactive rotation and overuse of players. What I and others perceive as Ange's misuse of the squad at various points this season, and it's likely contribution to our injury/fitness difficulties, should NOT be able to also serve as an excuse for him.


As long as we have him as coach I'll hope that he improves and that the club succeeds. I just have a really hard time seeing it come to pass based on what I've seen so far.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Strictly speaking- this is absolutely NOT a provable fact- it is your opinion. I don't think this sort of opinion really leads itself to being provable qualitatively.



I don't feel like we are much better at corners. We may be having a better run of luck with them though. I personally detest zonal marking, and am continually disappointed Ange seems to insist on it. I need to wait until the end of season to see if any mean reversion occurs with regard to our defensive set piece performance.



I appreciate what you are trying to say. I don't hate you guys for being optimistic about all of this.

We had VdV out for an extended period last season too. Forster for me was not the disaster we thought he would be. We've had injuries and poor performance that seem to result from lack of proactive rotation and overuse of players. What I and others perceive as Ange's misuse of the squad at various points this season, and it's likely contribution to our injury/fitness difficulties, should NOT be able to also serve as an excuse for him.


As long as we have him as coach I'll hope that he improves and that the club succeeds. I just have a really hard time seeing it come to pass based on what I've seen so far.

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100% where I am.

 

[bk_spur]

Wow.. how can you make that conclusion? We are down on, what is it, fifth and sixth choice on defenders? Two International CBs out for long periods?

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I make that conclusion because Gray and Dragusin have been overall good in my opinion. We've NOT had to play any non-CBs as CBs yet (that I can recall...). Forster was NOT a disaster. Spence has been EXCELLENT since coming into the side- and Ange was clearly late to get him involved- and it must not have been an intractable attitude problem or why on earth did he get a contract extension well before his involvement? Porro has been fit enough to play even though Ange clearly should have rotated him a bit more earlier on this season. Udogie until this latest injury had been doing alright, with the main issue being his Ange-directed headless-chicken routine, running upfield clogging up Son's space on the inside corner of the box.

Besides Liverpool and Chelsea we've kept games close- even in the midst of this supposed injury 'crisis'. Our biggest problem against non top4 sides seems to be failure to score enough goals. We scored 1 goal or less versus Bournemouth, Newcastle, and Forest, and only scored 2 goals versus formerly relegation form Wolves.

 

[Aphex]

Our points and league placement is down mainly due to an injury crisis, that's just a cast iron fact.

And that wasn't really the point at all, he was talking about the narrative that people (including some of our own fans) think that he cannot coach a defence when in truth is that we had some of the highest defensive numbers in the league before the crisis hit.

And what he's specifically talking about is the continus BS about the supposed high line, weak at corners, amount of shots we were letting in our goal etc...all overly forced narratives and when they did happen it was few and far between.

Before people get their nickers in a twist and wet themselves I'm not excusing the manager's performances, they've been abysmal quite frankly and he's lucky to still be in this job but for balance sake let's have a bit of fairness.

I understand things might be black and white in your world but we need to do more of this context thing because people for some reason hate using it in this thread.

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Hahaha, cast iron fact. WALOB. We could have easily had the exact same points haul even with VDV Romero and Vicario.

The injuries have provided the Ange lovers with such a convenient excuse for Ange's abysmal management and you guys just won't let it go will you. There is no excuse for not beating other teams in this league just because we have a few injuries. Every team has injuries. The fact that we actually beat Liverpool with Drag, Kinsky and Gray in defence actually blows apart the weak excuses you guys peddle in defence of Ange. Because if we can beat Liverpool with them in the team, why couldn't we beat Forest, or Newcastle, or Bournemouth? Because it isn't down to the absentee's, it's because Ange isn't getting any consistent results out of this squad.

 

[Harrykane9]

Lose tonight and would that be it? 14th as utd will beat Southampton. If Everton win 6 points off 16th/17th. Could be 3 after Everton. Performance levels and coaching has been overall abysmal for well over a year.

 

[Aphex]

Strictly speaking- this is absolutely NOT a provable fact- it is your opinion. I don't think this sort of opinion really leads itself to being provable qualitatively.



I don't feel like we are much better at corners. We may be having a better run of luck with them though. I personally detest zonal marking, and am continually disappointed Ange seems to insist on it. I need to wait until the end of season to see if any mean reversion occurs with regard to our defensive set piece performance.



I appreciate what you are trying to say. I don't hate you guys for being optimistic about all of this.

We had VdV out for an extended period last season too. Forster for me was not the disaster we thought he would be. We've had injuries and poor performance that seem to result from lack of proactive rotation and overuse of players. What I and others perceive as Ange's misuse of the squad at various points this season, and it's likely contribution to our injury/fitness difficulties, should NOT be able to also serve as an excuse for him.


As long as we have him as coach I'll hope that he improves and that the club succeeds. I just have a really hard time seeing it come to pass based on what I've seen so far.

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Excellent post.

 

[Aphex]

Lose tonight and would that be it? 14th as utd will beat Southampton. If Everton win 6 points off 16th/17th. Could be 3 after Everton. Performance levels and coaching has been overall abysmal for well over a year.

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Unfortunately no. Everyone will make an excuse for him as it's Woolwich away so if we lose it'll be expected. It will push him closer to the sack though, because it'll be another defeat in the league.

Although I fail to see how he survives a defeat at Everton. Even a draw would be absolutely shit.

Just relying on beating teams like Southampton and Leicester isn't going to be good enough to save this useless fuckers ass this season.

 

[dudu]

Yeah it’s pretty incredible how powerful narratives are and he has absolutely helped them build some of those narratives with his comments.

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I'm gonna disagree here - any comments can be taken and turned into a narrative - he hasn't changed - our results have - and subsequently the reaction to him being himself has changed....

 

[Richard Arlison]

I'm gonna disagree here - any comments can be taken and turned into a narrative - he hasn't changed - our results have - and subsequently the reaction to him being himself has changed....

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Whatever he says will be a narrative for sure…

But he did say set pieces weren’t a priority for him. Clarified it later but it was off and running by then.

And he has repeatedly said he won’t change his philosophy even when it’s clear they were building a narrative that he doesn’t adjust his tactics

End of the day it doesn’t matter what you say or what the narrative is when you win but he’s not always helped the narrative whilst we have been losing.

 

[dudu]

Strictly speaking- this is absolutely NOT a provable fact- it is your opinion. I don't think this sort of opinion really leads itself to being provable qualitatively.



I don't feel like we are much better at corners. We may be having a better run of luck with them though. I personally detest zonal marking, and am continually disappointed Ange seems to insist on it. I need to wait until the end of season to see if any mean reversion occurs with regard to our defensive set piece performance.



I appreciate what you are trying to say. I don't hate you guys for being optimistic about all of this.

We had VdV out for an extended period last season too. Forster for me was not the disaster we thought he would be. We've had injuries and poor performance that seem to result from lack of proactive rotation and overuse of players. What I and others perceive as Ange's misuse of the squad at various points this season, and it's likely contribution to our injury/fitness difficulties, should NOT be able to also serve as an excuse for him.


As long as we have him as coach I'll hope that he improves and that the club succeeds. I just have a really hard time seeing it come to pass based on what I've seen so far.

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No, it is pretty provable.

Data is there. For all the losses we were 3 points of 3rd after the City match - where we lost Romero and Vicario and then our PPG fell off a cliff. Like sheer fall into the abyss. The next game we played was against Fulahm, Forster in goal, Davies and Dragusin at CB - no Solanke even on the bench.... Then Bournmouth and no Dragusin - Davies and Gray at CB and Davies gets injured....

Forster was not a disaster when it came to shot stopping, but in terms of building up play from the back, breaking the press, passing to players in a way that didn't leave them in trouble and with more work to do than was necessary, he is chalk and cheese to even Vicario, let alone the kind of performance Kinsky put in vs Liverpool.

Either way, like I said, the data is there. And more data is there to show how difficult it is for anyone to beat the likes of Fulham, Bournemouth etc.... Not excusing the results just saying they categorically show a huge dip in points collected since the injuries happened.

 

[dudu]

Whatever he says will be a narrative for sure…

But he did say set pieces weren’t a priority for him. Clarified it later but it was off and running by then.

And he has repeatedly said he won’t change his philosophy even when it’s clear they were building a narrative that he doesn’t adjust his tactics

End of the day it doesn’t matter what you say or what the narrative is when you win but he’s not always helped the narrative whilst we have been losing.

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Sure - he makes it easy for people to jump on - but philosophy and tactics are very different things and journos and people with an agenda chose to jump on semantics and build a narrative to wind people up about it and there are too many in the fanbase that listen to talkport and can't think for themselves.

Last line - completely agree!

 

[Hulk]

People still talking about the sack every single game its getting tedious as fuck now lads honestly.
Theres no way on earth they are sacking him with a second leg in a semi coming up and the favourable fixtures we have coming up in the league after today. 6 wins in the league and we are safe and we aren't getting into the top 6 so whats the point with summer approaching?
Give it a rest for a few weeks ffs!

 

[NottinghamHotspur]

Ange seems to have a pass at the moment because of the injuries and the excitement of the young players emerging. But this won't last, he is a poor coach. As the injured players come back and the results remain inconsistent the clamour for his dismissal will build again. He won't last.

 

[Shadydan]

Hahaha, cast iron fact. WALOB. We could have easily had the exact same points haul even with VDV Romero and Vicario.

The injuries have provided the Ange lovers with such a convenient excuse for Ange's abysmal management and you guys just won't let it go will you. There is no excuse for not beating other teams in this league just because we have a few injuries. Every team has injuries. The fact that we actually beat Liverpool with Drag, Kinsky and Gray in defence actually blows apart the weak excuses you guys peddle in defence of Ange. Because if we can beat Liverpool with them in the team, why couldn't we beat Forest, or Newcastle, or Bournemouth? Because it isn't down to the absentee's, it's because Ange isn't getting any consistent results out of this squad.

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You claim my fact is bollocks then you go onto make an assumption which by your logic is also bollocks, way to contradict yourself.

And I'm not being rude but you have a pair of eyes and a functioning brain don't you? Are you actually watching the football or are you just reacting to the results? You see how we're struggling to play out the back and struggling to defend transitions even more so when we've had key players out missing and our forwards looking completely wrecked because we haven't had the ability to rest and rotate your players particularly through a period where you're playing every 3/4 days.

Injuries aren't an excuse are they? Unless you think we'd be in the same position with our strongest team...so the question remains if you actually think that then you're saying that having an 18 year old CM playing as a CB has the same effect on the team as VdV or perhaps Odobert wouldn't be getting more out of this team than an out of form Son and a shit Werner?

And you know just because we beat a Liverpool in an isolated match doesn't mean we'd be able to beat every other team in the league, otherwise we'd be top of the fucking league you complete simpleton, how old are you honestly?

And I'm not being funny but you clearly can't read, you're letting your emotions get the better of you once again...I put that disclaimer in purely for you which said he's doing an appaling job regardless but dismissing injuries is just stupid and ignorant, you sound like a rival fan.

 

[Maureen]

Johnson was an ange buy

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Werner he signed off on twice!

 

[daveyboy88]

6 wins in the league and we are safe

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oh thats alright then! jobs safe.

 

[Maureen]

None of them - including BJ - were "Ange buys".

They were in a shortlist of players presented to the manager as "available; affordable and within the profile".

Brennan Johnson was young, Home Grown, full international attacker that fit the above criteria. He needed an attacker as we'd just sold Kane and the season had STARTED.

The fuck wits who pretend Ange Postecoglou went out there and demanded Johnson are just being fuck wits.

The ONLY player Ange has received that he's openly targeted HIMSELF is Solanke.

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Oh yeah and they waited till last few days of transfer window to get him. He was not intl duty or anything. If he was no 1 target surely they should have got it done early like Werner.

 

[SpiderSpurs]

People still talking about the sack every single game its getting tedious as fuck now lads honestly.
Theres no way on earth they are sacking him with a second leg in a semi coming up and the favourable fixtures we have coming up in the league after today. 6 wins in the league and we are safe and we aren't getting into the top 6 so whats the point with summer approaching?
Give it a rest for a few weeks ffs!

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Favourable? These are our next 6 league fixtures, I admire your confidence.