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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Samisspurs said:
If we win the EC I think the players will be extremely pissed off if the club then boots ange. Wouldn’t wish that on a new manager to inherit.
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No chance, anyone with a pair of eyes can see why he deserves the sack regardless of what transpires in the EL. We hardly had anyone downing tools over Poch's departure and he gave most of that team their careers, Ange's entire team is made up of players who already made it before he came along or are so young there's no telling what they'll end up like down the line. I can only think Son would be gutted because I doubt the next man in will be so bothered about giving him the armband or starting him every game.
 
Mince Charming said:
It’s difficult to address this without going into a much larger rant about the lack of critical thinking skills the vast majority of people possess these days and the huge damage that’s causing to society, but ignoring that and keeping on topic, let’s just say that this line of thought is really, really, mind-numbingly dumb.

Let’s apply some logic: So basically the players have gotten together and decided they’ll just play how they like. They’re even doing their own thing in training, so basically Ange and the other coaches have just accepted this or have been bullied into silence whilst Madders and Romero lead all the drills.

Except there’s zero indication of any friction on the sideline during the match, nor a single inkling that the gameplan is in any way materially different from what the coaching team drew up.

For almost the entirety of the first half before the penalty the high line and various patterns of play we’ve seen all season remain, but conveniently the players must have decided to stick with that. Even second half when a goal up, the counter press and pressing on short goal kicks is often still in effect, with Udogie especially pressing their RB aggressively and VDV trying to close down on the halfway line, but again the players presumably decided not to abandon any of that because… that wouldn’t fit the narrative.

When the penalty was awarded Tel has the ball before Ange starts gesturing forcefully to give it to Dom, but they ignore him? Oh wait, no they don’t.

Ange makes two defensive subs during the match, despite apparently wanting the players to play balls-to-the-wall gung-ho Angeball.

Then at the end of the match the coaching team and all the players embrace jubilantly, Ange is sharing long hugs with the players, no tension at all, no awkwardness whatsoever mere minutes after they’ve completely ignored his instructions for the entire match and the week leading up to it.

The first people Vicario runs to celebrate with are all the coaches, who actually had zero to do with the win because the players just ignored them. Why does he make a beeline for them and not the players who actually concocted the entire plan and ignored the coaches? We’ll never know.

Then Ange makes a point in his press conference and interviews about how the players have never wavered in what he’s asked them to do, minutes after they’ve completely done the exact opposite. Similarly, Vic and others give interviews saying how they believe in the manager and are behind him, yet the exact opposite is supposedly true. I guess it’s all a big CONSPIRACY oooooooh.

Like I said, just mind-numbingly stupid the second you apply an ounce of critical thought and consider the inconsistency after inconsistency in people’s behaviour that would have to apply for this “theory” to hold water.
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Brilliant.

Barack Obama Applause GIF by Obama
 
John Duncan said:
A similar thing was said to have happened at Italia 90. ( stretch your minds back and / or look it up ) .

But , in that case all the players
( Lineker Platt , Shilton , Pearce , Butcher etc) had a sit-down with Bobby Robson ) and explained their reasoning . Results turned and we should have won the whole thing ( but for fate / the footballing gods etc ) .

I just can’t see a team “ taking things into their own hands “ in a one off game , in modern football.

Maybe I’m wrong or out-of-date ; possibly both . But , still , I’d be surprised if that’s what happened.
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It's not the case. It's utter fantasy and quite embarrassing to the people that peddle it.

It's possible that the players love the gaffer AND the gaffers no good. Like this happens quite a lot in sport. The ridiculous conspiracy theeories about Maddison and Postecoglou having had massive fall out have never once been offered with any evidence yet every fucking week the same bollocks it spouted. :roflmao:

Occam's razor is desperately needed in this thread sometimes...
 
Mince Charming said:
It’s difficult to address this without going into a much larger rant about the lack of critical thinking skills the vast majority of people possess these days and the huge damage that’s causing to society, but ignoring that and keeping on topic, let’s just say that this line of thought is really, really, mind-numbingly dumb.

Let’s apply some logic: So basically the players have gotten together and decided they’ll just play how they like. They’re even doing their own thing in training, so basically Ange and the other coaches have just accepted this or have been bullied into silence whilst Madders and Romero lead all the drills.

Except there’s zero indication of any friction on the sideline during the match, nor a single inkling that the gameplan is in any way materially different from what the coaching team drew up.

For almost the entirety of the first half before the penalty the high line and various patterns of play we’ve seen all season remain, but conveniently the players must have decided to stick with that. Even second half when a goal up, the counter press and pressing on short goal kicks is often still in effect, with Udogie especially pressing their RB aggressively and VDV trying to close down on the halfway line, but again the players presumably decided not to abandon any of that because… that wouldn’t fit the narrative.

When the penalty was awarded Tel has the ball before Ange starts gesturing forcefully to give it to Dom, but they ignore him? Oh wait, no they don’t.

Ange makes two defensive subs during the match, despite apparently wanting the players to play balls-to-the-wall gung-ho Angeball.

Then at the end of the match the coaching team and all the players embrace jubilantly, Ange is sharing long hugs with the players, no tension at all, no awkwardness whatsoever mere minutes after they’ve completely ignored his instructions for the entire match and the week leading up to it.

The first people Vicario runs to celebrate with are all the coaches, who actually had zero to do with the win because the players just ignored them. Why does he make a beeline for them and not the players who actually concocted the entire plan and ignored the coaches? We’ll never know.

Then Ange makes a point in his press conference and interviews about how the players have never wavered in what he’s asked them to do, minutes after they’ve completely done the exact opposite. Similarly, Vic and others give interviews saying how they believe in the manager and are behind him, yet the exact opposite is supposedly true. I guess it’s all a big CONSPIRACY oooooooh.

Like I said, just mind-numbingly stupid the second you apply an ounce of critical thought and consider the inconsistency after inconsistency in people’s behaviour that would have to apply for this “theory” to hold water.
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Standing Ovation Applause GIF by The Maury Show
 
Mince Charming said:
It’s difficult to address this without going into a much larger rant about the lack of critical thinking skills the vast majority of people possess these days and the huge damage that’s causing to society, but ignoring that and keeping on topic, let’s just say that this line of thought is really, really, mind-numbingly dumb.

Let’s apply some logic: So basically the players have gotten together and decided they’ll just play how they like. They’re even doing their own thing in training, so basically Ange and the other coaches have just accepted this or have been bullied into silence whilst Madders and Romero lead all the drills.

Except there’s zero indication of any friction on the sideline during the match, nor a single inkling that the gameplan is in any way materially different from what the coaching team drew up.

For almost the entirety of the first half before the penalty the high line and various patterns of play we’ve seen all season remain, but conveniently the players must have decided to stick with that. Even second half when a goal up, the counter press and pressing on short goal kicks is often still in effect, with Udogie especially pressing their RB aggressively and VDV trying to close down on the halfway line, but again the players presumably decided not to abandon any of that because… that wouldn’t fit the narrative.

When the penalty was awarded Tel has the ball before Ange starts gesturing forcefully to give it to Dom, but they ignore him? Oh wait, no they don’t.

Ange makes two defensive subs during the match, despite apparently wanting the players to play balls-to-the-wall gung-ho Angeball.

Then at the end of the match the coaching team and all the players embrace jubilantly, Ange is sharing long hugs with the players, no tension at all, no awkwardness whatsoever mere minutes after they’ve completely ignored his instructions for the entire match and the week leading up to it.

The first people Vicario runs to celebrate with are all the coaches, who actually had zero to do with the win because the players just ignored them. Why does he make a beeline for them and not the players who actually concocted the entire plan and ignored the coaches? We’ll never know.

Then Ange makes a point in his press conference and interviews about how the players have never wavered in what he’s asked them to do, minutes after they’ve completely done the exact opposite. Similarly, Vic and others give interviews saying how they believe in the manager and are behind him, yet the exact opposite is supposedly true. I guess it’s all a big CONSPIRACY oooooooh.

Like I said, just mind-numbingly stupid the second you apply an ounce of critical thought and consider the inconsistency after inconsistency in people’s behaviour that would have to apply for this “theory” to hold water.
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Ange clearly happy with his captain who led the team revolt and went totally against his instructions.


View: https://x.com/hotspurreports/status/1913199501113696594
 
Phomesy said:
3rd in Bundesliga, winners of the Comp in 2022.

They are levels above those teams. It's a testament to how poor we have been in the league this season that we won the tie so convincingly yet a cellar dwellers.
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lol no they aren’t.

They were in the final of that competition with Rangers mate. They won it on penalties. Rangers would be struggling to stay up.

Frankfurt would be a top half PL side. Nothing more or less. They’re 2 points off 4th - the same position Union Berlin finished last season. Top 4 in the Bundesliga is not indicative of much quality.

I imagine their wage budget etc is all very comparable to a Fulham or Bournemouth so it makes total sense. I saw very little talent over two legs. There was a clear ability gap.
 
I'm zoning out from all this sniping. Enjoying this bit of the ride. Ange is taking up way too much head room. We're in a European SF. Two games against a very beatable team to reach that final night.
 
Deuterz said:
lol no they aren’t.

They were in the final of that competition with Rangers mate. They won it on penalties. Rangers would be struggling to stay up.

Frankfurt would be a top half PL side. Nothing more or less. They’re 2 points off 4th - the same position Union Berlin finished last season. Top 4 in the Bundesliga is not indicative of much quality.

I imagine their wage budget etc is all very comparable to a Fulham or Bournemouth so it makes total sense. I saw very little talent over two legs. There was a clear ability gap.
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3rd in Bundesliga is, while nowhere near as hard as 3rd in PL, no mean feat. Yes they've lost Marmoush but they haven't lost at home to anyone - including both Bayern teams - this season.

Of course we should be beating them - and we did. It was a good win especially given how poor we've been. Minimising the win is just really pathetic quibbling from people who seem really insecure for whatever bizarre reason about anything that might possibly reflect well on the manager. Let it go and just acknowledge the team getting a good result.

There's a vanishingly small amount of people who think this result changes anything about the disastrous league season.
 
Nuts said:
I'm zoning out from all this sniping. Enjoying this bit of the ride. Ange is taking up way too much head room. We're in a European SF. Two games against a very beatable team to reach that final night.
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Be great to be in a European final again.

But I had no idea it's was 21st of May, what a weird fuckin date.

That's a Wednesday night. 3 days after we've played Aston villa , 3 days before we play Brighton.

The CL final is on Saturday night 31st of May. Why the hell isn't the Europa on the Wednesday before...when the season is over.

If we make it, we literally have to send the academy, with Timo Werner as captain and player coach, to face villa . Stupidness
 
Mince Charming said:
It’s difficult to address this without going into a much larger rant about the lack of critical thinking skills the vast majority of people possess these days and the huge damage that’s causing to society, but ignoring that and keeping on topic, let’s just say that this line of thought is really, really, mind-numbingly dumb.

Let’s apply some logic: So basically the players have gotten together and decided they’ll just play how they like. They’re even doing their own thing in training, so basically Ange and the other coaches have just accepted this or have been bullied into silence whilst Madders and Romero lead all the drills.

Except there’s zero indication of any friction on the sideline during the match, nor a single inkling that the gameplan is in any way materially different from what the coaching team drew up.

For almost the entirety of the first half before the penalty the high line and various patterns of play we’ve seen all season remain, but conveniently the players must have decided to stick with that. Even second half when a goal up, the counter press and pressing on short goal kicks is often still in effect, with Udogie especially pressing their RB aggressively and VDV trying to close down on the halfway line, but again the players presumably decided not to abandon any of that because… that wouldn’t fit the narrative.

When the penalty was awarded Tel has the ball before Ange starts gesturing forcefully to give it to Dom, but they ignore him? Oh wait, no they don’t.

Ange makes two defensive subs during the match, despite apparently wanting the players to play balls-to-the-wall gung-ho Angeball.

Then at the end of the match the coaching team and all the players embrace jubilantly, Ange is sharing long hugs with the players, no tension at all, no awkwardness whatsoever mere minutes after they’ve completely ignored his instructions for the entire match and the week leading up to it.

The first people Vicario runs to celebrate with are all the coaches, who actually had zero to do with the win because the players just ignored them. Why does he make a beeline for them and not the players who actually concocted the entire plan and ignored the coaches? We’ll never know.

Then Ange makes a point in his press conference and interviews about how the players have never wavered in what he’s asked them to do, minutes after they’ve completely done the exact opposite. Similarly, Vic and others give interviews saying how they believe in the manager and are behind him, yet the exact opposite is supposedly true. I guess it’s all a big CONSPIRACY oooooooh.

Like I said, just mind-numbingly stupid the second you apply an ounce of critical thought and consider the inconsistency after inconsistency in people’s behaviour that would have to apply for this “theory” to hold water.
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Thank you for your eloquent response - most of us have given even me as a 'Newb' to respond to these kinds of things. As I've said I find it soo weird people think they know what the players or manager is thinking even ignoring what players say with their own words or deduce from their actions in games.

I have no fukkin clue what these players think, nor the manager or anyone who works at Spurs.

10/10 response mah dude!
 
Phomesy said:
3rd in Bundesliga is, while nowhere near as hard as 3rd in PL, no mean feat. Yes they've lost Marmoush but they haven't lost at home to anyone - including both Bayern teams - this season.

Of course we should be beating them - and we did. It was a good win especially given how poor we've been. Minimising the win is just really pathetic quibbling from people who seem really insecure for whatever bizarre reason about anything that might possibly reflect well on the manager. Let it go and just acknowledge the team getting a good result.

There's a vanishingly small amount of people who think this result changes anything about the disastrous league season.
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It’s not minimising the win. It’s putting in to perfectly fair context. Frankfurt aren’t that good, we both agree on this, no? They’re also not bad. It was a tough, tight tie we deserved to win. I didn’t think we would win, so it would be hugely hypocritical to say it doesn’t mean anything. But I’m not then going to flip to overrating Frankfurt as I also said before the tie they’re a lot of nothing. They’re a Europa League standard team. We played them before in the dreadful Poch season and won then too.

I sincerely believe they’d struggle for top 8/9 in England. United do them over two legs I think and they’re 14th in England. We’ve seen Leicester be mid table yet achieve a CL quarter too.

For me Wolves in Cunha have a player who is better than everyone on Frankfurt’s team. This again makes sense, Wolves have a much higher wage budget.

This is why I have said for ages - the EL is insanely winnable. It is very weak. Prem sides generally exit it due to viewing it as below them. The only reason I didn’t think we would win it is Ange. The team is more than good enough, Bilbao and United are not intimidating opposition.

Last season had Leverkusen/Atalanta. Two genuinely quality CL level sides. This is a competition which fluctuates massively depending on lots of factors. A competition Rangers can reach the final of. Of course we can win it, but it won’t tell me much about whether Ange is a great coach or not. Glasner has won the EL. Does anyone consider him great?
 
Deuterz said:
It’s not minimising the win. It’s putting in to perfectly fair context. Frankfurt aren’t that good, we both agree on this, no? They’re also not bad. It was a tough, tight tie we deserved to win. I didn’t think we would win, so it would be hugely hypocritical to say it doesn’t mean anything. But I’m not then going to flip to overrating Frankfurt as I also said before the tie they’re a lot of nothing. They’re a Europa League standard team. We played them before in the dreadful Poch season and won then too.

I sincerely believe they’d struggle for top 8/9 in England. United do them over two legs I think and they’re 14th in England. We’ve seen Leicester be mid table yet achieve a CL quarter too.

For me Wolves in Cunha have a player who is better than everyone on Frankfurt’s team. This again makes sense, Wolves have a much higher wage budget.

This is why I have said for ages - the EL is insanely winnable. It is very weak. Prem sides generally exit it due to viewing it as below them. The only reason I didn’t think we would win it is Ange. The team is more than good enough, Bilbao and United are not intimidating opposition.

Last season had Leverkusen/Atalanta. Two genuinely quality CL level sides. This is a competition which fluctuates massively depending on lots of factors. A competition Rangers can reach the final of.
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I pretty much agree with all of this. Just with the caveat that we've played in Europe with better squads under better managers and had much worse outcomes than reaching a semi-final. And not always against worse opposition.

Deuterz said:
Of course we can win it, but it won’t tell me much about whether Ange is a great coach or not.
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This is where the issue is. There is this bizarre need by so many on this thread to make it a referendum on whether Ange is a good coach. As you know I would never dream of asking you - or anyone - to accept that Ange is a good coach whether we win the lot or not. That can only be judged by league results and those speak for themselves.

What is annoying is the constant fucking depressing need to shit on every vanishingly rare "good moment" we have this season because of some terror that it might reflect well on the manager. Thus we get these insane - and I mean FUCKING NUTS- theories that the players have ditched the coaching staff completely and are running things themselves. It's so weird and insecure. Like I've said elsewhere it's entirely possible the players LOVE the gaffer AND the gaffer is shite. Players aren't especially intelligent. What I would say is it's much nicer to have a united player and coaching staff - even if one of that subsection needs turfing.

Deuterz said:
Glasner has won the EL. Does anyone consider him great?
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Maybe :cautious:
 
Phomesy said:
I pretty much agree with all of this. Just with the caveat that we've played in Europe with better squads under better managers and had much worse outcomes than reaching a semi-final. And not always against worse opposition.



This is where the issue is. There is this bizarre need by so many on this thread to make it a referendum on whether Ange is a good coach. As you know I would never dream of asking you - or anyone - to accept that Ange is a good coach whether we win the lot or not. That can only be judged by league results and those speak for themselves.

What is annoying is the constant fucking depressing need to shit on every vanishingly rare "good moment" we have this season because of some terror that it might reflect well on the manager. Thus we get these insane - and I mean FUCKING NUTS- theories that the players have ditched the coaching staff completely and are running things themselves. It's so weird and insecure. Like I've said elsewhere it's entirely possible the players LOVE the gaffer AND the gaffer is shite. Players aren't especially intelligent. What I would say is it's much nicer to have a united player and coaching staff - even if one of that subsection needs turfing.



Maybe :cautious:
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That happened due to not taking it seriously. We’ve made the EL our big deal this season. You think if peak Poch sides viewed Gent or whoever as cup finals we get knocked out? This is Ange’s everything.

Seriously, when Prem sides treat the EL with respect they tend to do well. Mourinho is cup hungry and laser focused it so they won it. We had that Chelsea/Woolwich final when both were in a weird space and it was their only focus.

A big part of our not winning anything is our being in a weird space lately of good enough for top 4 and mostly being in that fight (even title fights!) but considering ourselves a bit too good for the EL and even domestic cups at times. Jose got to a league cup final when we were abysmal - why? He takes it seriously. Not because of exceptional coaching.

Maybe that’s what we needed all along. Ange is desperate for the silverware. Maybe he doesn’t need to be a very good coach for us to get it. It’s all we will play for now.
 
Mince Charming said:
It’s difficult to address this without going into a much larger rant about the lack of critical thinking skills the vast majority of people possess these days and the huge damage that’s causing to society, but ignoring that and keeping on topic, let’s just say that this line of thought is really, really, mind-numbingly dumb.

Let’s apply some logic: So basically the players have gotten together and decided they’ll just play how they like. They’re even doing their own thing in training, so basically Ange and the other coaches have just accepted this or have been bullied into silence whilst Madders and Romero lead all the drills.

Except there’s zero indication of any friction on the sideline during the match, nor a single inkling that the gameplan is in any way materially different from what the coaching team drew up.

For almost the entirety of the first half before the penalty the high line and various patterns of play we’ve seen all season remain, but conveniently the players must have decided to stick with that. Even second half when a goal up, the counter press and pressing on short goal kicks is often still in effect, with Udogie especially pressing their RB aggressively and VDV trying to close down on the halfway line, but again the players presumably decided not to abandon any of that because… that wouldn’t fit the narrative.

When the penalty was awarded Tel has the ball before Ange starts gesturing forcefully to give it to Dom, but they ignore him? Oh wait, no they don’t.

Ange makes two defensive subs during the match, despite apparently wanting the players to play balls-to-the-wall gung-ho Angeball.

Then at the end of the match the coaching team and all the players embrace jubilantly, Ange is sharing long hugs with the players, no tension at all, no awkwardness whatsoever mere minutes after they’ve completely ignored his instructions for the entire match and the week leading up to it.

The first people Vicario runs to celebrate with are all the coaches, who actually had zero to do with the win because the players just ignored them. Why does he make a beeline for them and not the players who actually concocted the entire plan and ignored the coaches? We’ll never know.

Then Ange makes a point in his press conference and interviews about how the players have never wavered in what he’s asked them to do, minutes after they’ve completely done the exact opposite. Similarly, Vic and others give interviews saying how they believe in the manager and are behind him, yet the exact opposite is supposedly true. I guess it’s all a big CONSPIRACY oooooooh.

Like I said, just mind-numbingly stupid the second you apply an ounce of critical thought and consider the inconsistency after inconsistency in people’s behaviour that would have to apply for this “theory” to hold water.
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Post of the year!
 
If Ange wins the Europa League, then, despite his shortfalls displayed, I feel that he deserves to be there next season, hopefully with a better transfer window in the summer. Let's face it, we bought Solanke and 5 future players last time, albeit that injuries meant we had to play them early.

We don't win much and we've been saying it for years, so IF we win this thing, then credit where credit is due, as Ange will have delivered the biggest trophy in Levy's 23 year tenure. Can you really sack him for that, especially as it's as good as finishing in the top 5 with the CL to follow next season.
 
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