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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Nuts said:
We're not winning the league with Levy at the helm. Ange will never be given the quality of players to make that work. It's why he's an ill fit.
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Understand that thinking.

Question is, do we want the club to go for glory and live on a burning edge in that attempt? Or do tactical tweaks here and there, pragmatic but no identity. Never a cut above to challenge for title in league and UCL.

I know this season's league has being the worst. But we were competitive in all cups, that was pretty exciting. If we get a few more players, next season couple be real fun under Ange.

As an Aussie fan of 15+ years, I'm bias and want to see him succeed. But the successful people in life I've met have always being really clear about who they are, what they want and how they plan to get there.
 
SouthCoastSpur said:
Whatever you think of Ange he got it tactically spot on last night and in the last 4 games in Europe. I was fearing the worst and have been pleasantly surprised we have been able to knuckle down and get a result when needed. Obviously that makes it more frustrating we haven't been able to change it up in the PL.
All that being said we need to get behind the team and manager over the next few weeks. And personally I found it nice to see him smile and enjoying himself at the end.
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He was enjoying himself giving it back to those oxygen thieves calling themselves journalists!
 
glacierSpurs said:
He's now trying to make themselves the underdog lol. Their pride will never allow that behind all the mics and cameras. They must be all so full of themselves in the name of Man Utd history. Let's hope that will continue be their downfall and we can smash them the hardest this 4th time.
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It's not just now he was saying they're maybe the worst team in United history back in January.

www.premierleague.com

Amorim: We’re maybe the worst team in Man Utd history

Head coach says club will suffer before things get better after 3-1 home loss to Brighton
www.premierleague.com www.premierleague.com
 
Nuts said:
I can't work out for the life of me why he hasn't taken the same approach to the PL. Why did he insist on a high press, high possession approach when, for one reason or another, it wasn't working? Showing that he can be pragmatic makes his PL performances look even worse. We would not be in the diabolical position we've found ourselves in if he'd played a more intelligent game.

But credit to him for getting us to the EL final. I did say we win this in spite of him. I take that back; he's right, it is a different competition to the PL. If we win it, we win it with him and he gets my respect for his help in this competition because we need this trophy after years of fuck all.

And then I hope he leaves smiling and we get someone in who can push our players to their full potential.
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Trying to think who he would suit best. Maybe a mid table team & he can go on good runs in the cup. But I don’t think he suits a team wanting CL football fairly regularly:
 
scott said:
It strangely makes total sense why he has done awful in the league but well in the europa. It should be expected really. I think he is good up to a certain level. Top 6 premier league team is above his level.
I think the CL teams not dropping in to the europa has helped a lot too. CL & premier league our one step to high for him.
But on the other hand it seems so harsh & cold to sack someone who’s won you a trophy.
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It is because of multiple reasons:

1. Levy / Lange left the squad short for a season with European football, the summer window was nowhere near ambitious enough.
2. Ange managed the squad terribly in the first 3 months. Overplaying Udogie after he missed most of pre-season recovering from surgery whilst overlooking Spence is probably the best example of how not to do things.
3. An incredible injury crisis. This was not helped by Ange ball's demands on player's hamstrings, but not all down to him either. Some were injuries that were just bad luck. But no team in PL history has dealt with the injuries that we did between Nov and Feb. We were down to 5th and 6th choice CBs at times. The injuries meant that the league was understandably over for us by end of Jan.
4. Not adjusting tactics in the league. The injuries were compunded by Ange not adjusting his tactics and insisted on playing out from the back and a high line with players not suited to it (Dragusin and Davie as a CB pair for example).
5. Focus on EL only. It has been clear that for the last month the club has prioritised the EL and Ange has picked teams to help squad fitness rather than to get results. I am happy with this - as most of you should be (as the debate on forums like this for years supports that we'd rather with a trophy and come 17th than finish 4th).

The key things right now are:
  • Ange has not lost the dressing room.
  • He has overcome his stubbornness and come up with game plans to get the most of his resources (as shown against Frankfurt and Bodø).
  • We are in a European final.
 
Feel like we need an amnesty where we all agree to revisit Ange in/out after the final, but until the final we just enjoy it and hope to finally get a much needed trophy.
 
big win for the mate mafia!

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Nuts said:
I can't work out for the life of me why he hasn't taken the same approach to the PL. Why did he insist on a high press, high possession approach when, for one reason or another, it wasn't working? Showing that he can be pragmatic makes his PL performances look even worse. We would not be in the diabolical position we've found ourselves in if he'd played a more intelligent game.

But credit to him for getting us to the EL final. I did say we win this in spite of him. I take that back; he's right, it is a different competition to the PL. If we win it, we win it with him and he gets my respect for his help in this competition because we need this trophy after years of fuck all.

And then I hope he leaves smiling and we get someone in who can push our players to their full potential.
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He can't take that approach in the PL.
The facts that 15th and 16th in the PL are in the final says everything about the level of competition in the Europa League. Before Champions League football was the prize (quite a recent thing) nobody in the PL took it seriously.
The effort to win it vs the "reward" was never seen as worth the risk.

Now CL football is on the table, it's become a far more "prestigious" competition.

Back to the PL, there's a lot more competitive teams in that than the whole of the Europa League. Ange can do what he likes in the the PL but he's still gonna be coming up against teams week after week that have his number.
It's not about picking and choosing when we're good, it's about having games against certain teams that allow us to be good due to their own inferiority.
3rd place in Germany is mid to lower league in the PL.
It's like dog years.

People will point at the lack of English winners in the CL. But in the 21st century, there have been 15 English finalists with 6 winners (Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United, Man City)
Germany have had 1 winner in Bayern (3 times)
Spain have had 2 winners in Real and Barcelona most of the rest of the time.
Italy 2 wins 1 for each Milan Club

So really, with 4 different winners and so many finalist appearances, (us and Arse making it 6 different English sides to get to a CL final) we are probably the best represented league in that competition.

So in summary, Ange isn't good enough to manage a PL club in the PL, but capable of managing a PL club in Europe's 2nd tier competition.

And FML, it's sods law we get a PL team in the final. Again.
6 finals. 3 of them Vs english rivals.
 
Dudski said:
Successful people are organized and understand the environment they work in. Far too often, the team Postecoglou fields is disorganized and gives up early goals and gets over run in midfield. For most of the season Spurs were careless with the ball and the center backs were constantly making recovery runs. Postecoglou's argument is, essentially, give me enough players and we'll outscore them. That's school yard tactics not suited to the Premier League. My question is, what are the conditions where people finally say "enough"?
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Thing is he needs to prove he can get a team to be a goal threat and also defensively solid. Since we changed structure to what we are seeing now, can he make that a team that can win games consistently? We only really have the west ham game in the prem where we did that and that was a complete second team really.
 
Heres the reality:

-We managed to get the easiest path to the EL final beating subpar competition.

-the players clearly abandoned “Angeball” in favour of actually winning the one off knock out games.

-if we keep Ange next season we will literally be 20th and relegated. Especially if we win the EL. His ego will be through the roof and he will double down on his shite tactics.
 
Matt1882 said:
He can't take that approach in the PL.
The facts that 15th and 16th in the PL are in the final says everything about the level of competition in the Europa League. Before Champions League football was the prize (quite a recent thing) nobody in the PL took it seriously.
The effort to win it vs the "reward" was never seen as worth the risk.

Now CL football is on the table, it's become a far more "prestigious" competition.

Back to the PL, there's a lot more competitive teams in that than the whole of the Europa League. Ange can do what he likes in the the PL but he's still gonna be coming up against teams week after week that have his number.
It's not about picking and choosing when we're good, it's about having games against certain teams that allow us to be good due to their own inferiority.
3rd place in Germany is mid to lower league in the PL.
It's like dog years.

People will point at the lack of English winners in the CL. But in the 21st century, there have been 15 English finalists with 6 winners (Liverpool, Chelsea, Man United, Man City)
Germany have had 1 winner in Bayern (3 times)
Spain have had 2 winners in Real and Barcelona most of the rest of the time.
Italy 2 wins 1 for each Milan Club

So really, with 4 different winners and so many finalist appearances, (us and Arse making it 6 different English sides to get to a CL final) we are probably the best represented league in that competition.

So in summary, Ange isn't good enough to manage a PL club in the PL, but capable of managing a PL club in Europe's 2nd tier competition.

And FML, it's sods law we get a PL team in the final. Again.
6 finals. 3 of them Vs english rivals.
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Calculate Figure It Out GIF
 
scott said:
It strangely makes total sense why he has done awful in the league but well in the europa. It should be expected really. I think he is good up to a certain level. Top 6 premier league team is above his level.
I think the CL teams not dropping in to the europa has helped a lot too. CL & premier league our one step to high for him.
But on the other hand it seems so harsh & cold to sack someone who’s won you a trophy.
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True. IMHO of the teams we've played only Roma and EF have squads that would, perhaps, be PL level squads ... we drew two of our three games against them. Gala perhaps also ... and they dominated us.

But anyway, the BODO performances were good. They are a tricky opponent. Yes, we should have won, but we properly fucked them up over two legs, which is what we all feel we should be doing.
 
I think some folk are getting caught up in the fact that we are in a final which is great and hopefully we win it and then have a mutual parting between ourselves and Ange .Been posted several times but no manager can stand over the number of defeats we have had its just ridiculous to think he should remain in charge .
 
Angeball is dead, I think. Or whatever Angeball was is now far more pragmatic.

Last night we played as direct as Brentford. We did things like slow the game down to stop the team building rhythm. We didn't invert the full backs. We were happy for them to keep possession knowing they couldn't harm us.

I hope that we keep with Ange 2.0 in the final. I think the previous iteration of "Angeball" has been tried and failed. Maybe this one will succeed?
 
Gym&Chill said:
Heres the reality:

-We managed to get the easiest path to the EL final beating subpar competition.

-the players clearly abandoned “Angeball” in favour of actually winning the one off knock out games.

-if we keep Ange next season we will literally be 20th and relegated. Especially if we win the EL. His ego will be through the roof and he will double down on his shite tactics.
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We've had a blessed path to the final with the fixtures we've had.

And no CL teams dropped down.

The players have had to overcome Ange, as much as anything else, to get here.

Mason and Wells could have got us here with more pragmatism and common sense and less emotional duress.

We've had to players to do it.

Anyone thinking they're coming in here to 'own' anyone if we win, because our players overcame all the barriers put in front of them by this mug, can think again.

And when he goes you need to go with him.
 
Matt1882 said:
The facts that 15th and 16th in the PL are in the final says everything about the level of competition in the Europa League. Before Champions League football was the prize (quite a recent thing) nobody in the PL took it seriously.
The effort to win it vs the "reward" was never seen as worth the risk.
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Sorry - I cannot disagree more.

This is only our 6th European final in our entire history. For comparison, Woolwich have only ever reached 5 European finals themselves. If it was a crap competition an English club would win it every other year. The revisionism in this fan base is incredible. Last year we finished 5th and everyone said they'd rather finish 17th and win a trophy. Now we're in a final "it is only the Europa league". We have not won a trophy since the League Cup in 2008 (17 years ago). Before that the league cup in 1999 (26 years ago). Our last European trophy was in 1984 (41 years ago!). I cannot believe the self entitlement and dismissiveness from some of our fan base on here.

I saw Henry Winter (gooner sports journalist) painting this on Twitter as a playoff between 15th and 16th in the PL for a spot in the CL. This is a European trophy between 2 clubs who deservedly reached the final after a gruelling campaign. 14 games played on Thursday nights. Travel to the Artic circle. We deserve to be inthe final and if we win that we deserve the CL qualification that comes with it.
 
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