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Management Ange Postecoglou

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Matt1882 said:
Chicken or Egg?
Was Poch given a ready made world beating team? Or did Poch make them into that?

I'm going for the latter.

Ange could make prime Barcelona look like this seasons Southampton with enough time.
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Been done to death but his team that first season contained Fazio, Bentaleb, Mason, all playing a lot of games.

Walker, Rose, Dembele were a bit of a laughing stock who the majority wanted sold prior to Poch arriving. Vertonghen was accused of being lazy. We still had players like Chiriches Paulino, Soldado, Capoue, Adebayor, Kaboul knocking around.

He wasnt handed some golden age on a platter, he improved players and sold the rubbish/ bad eggs and early on at least we bought well.

Whilst the early 80s team will always be my favourite as i was a kid then the 2015 to 2018 team was probably the best. The 80s team couldnt just overpower sides like that one and never had the same consistancy. It was a joy to watch and not made less so because we didnt scramble to a league cup win.
 
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harry7 said:
We were only 4 points behind 2nd place 1/3rd of the way into the season. However, the table was very congested with about 10 teams floating around the same points. But it's fair to say, we were in the mix. Up until half way through the season, we remained the top scoring team in the league. We did have some early results that didn't go our way, despite us being the better team - Woolwich, Newcastle, Brighton and Leicester come to mind.

I'm not sure that we were easy to play against. More so that teams sat back and surrendered the ball and then capitalized on errors - of which our players made many. I feel that if we could eliminate the individual errors, we would be a lot harder to play against.

How high is the ceiling? It's hard to imagine a squad will be able to topple the dominance of City and Liverpool. Woolwich will strengthen. We would need our young players to mature a little more to be consistent.

If we can add some experienced players in the summer in midfield to upgrade on Biss / Sarr I think we would be back in the top 6. However, if we wanted to earn a place in the top 4, we would need a world class keeper.
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I don't think Viccario is what separates us from the top 4. Whoever is keeper is going to be working in a system that puts him in vulnerable positions.
 
The idea that a football club would strategically decide to lose 20 plus games in the league intentionally is absolutely utter bollocks. Every place is the league costs the club millions of pounds. Along with various other degrees of damage/risk. Yeah footballs biggest penny pincher Levy would definitely agree to that.
 
dudu said:
Don't disagree entirely, but the quality of players in his best side was well above this, with or without Poch - not even sure how that can be debated.

Either way the fact remains, he won nothing. They had PLENTY of cup competitions, plenty of opportunities and he failed.

That doesnt make him a bad manager, or take away from the great times I had watching that side play.

But his achievements with us were 0. No Trophies. Not one.
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The only way that can be proven is to give both coaches both squads and see what they do.
Otherwise it's just opinion and educated guesswork.

My educated guess is Ange would drag Poch's team downwards and Poch would drag this team upwards.
Even if we win the Europa league this season, it doesn't mean we've achieved more, IMO. We have litterally sacrificed one competition for another. Exactly what Poch did in the days we were in the Europa league but vice versa.
If you are willing to accept poor league form domestically, getting to the Europa League final and potentially winning it is far easier than 4 top 4 finishes, including 2 title challenges.
 
dudu said:
Whoever said he would be considered a legend - not me - I said he would have achieved more than Poch, which, if he wins a real-life trophy, will be factually correct.

You're choosing to deflate a competition like every single opposing fan will do if we win it.

Poch was a great coach for us, but won nothing - I'm sorry, that is on him, not on anyone else.
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I'm not deflating the competition... what is factual is that the top PL clubs who have found themselves in the Europa League consistently treat it like the League Cup, playing reserves and youth players until they reach the later stages when they might play the first team. That there is the top clubs deflating the competition. Not me. For the record, I usually don't care one iota about opposing fans, majority of which I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. Go back to the early stages of the competition... we even deflated the competition until we realised the league was a dumpster fire.

Personally, I feel you are overinflating this competition probably due to the fact we've won fuck all for so long. On Thursday when we wake up, this win will not change the narrative. As good as it will feel to get a few monkeys off our back, I trust me I will savour every minute of it, this achievement will not for one minute paper over the piss poor league form.

You are basing achievement on one metric which is winning Europe's secondary competition (which we still haven't won). Think about the health of our football club for a minute... what is the bigger achievement? Finishing top five and reaching later stagers of Champions League, or fighting relegation and winning the Europa League. If you look at it purely from silverware then fine, you win... but monetize it and you will quickly lose this argument. Also, who is better equipped next season to actually progress in the Champions League. Certainly not the team who just finished 17th but won the Europa League. For all Poch's faults (and trust me, I don't want him back), in four out of five seasons in charge he got us into the Champions League including reaching a final. I would say that is an amazing achievement under this Chairman.
 
_mehstg said:
You didn't look hard enough... I've often said the 16/17 Spurs side was the best Spurs side I have ever seen. We were by far the best side in the PL. Statistically both the best attack and defence, and Harry once again claimed the Golden Boot. We were very unlucky to run into a Chelsea team who never had to worry about European football that season. That was an elite team and yes we didn't win anything but we were close and this was a moment where Levy had an opportunity to go big. Instead he did what he always did. Sold the best RB in the country and bought in Aurier as a replacement. Add in Sanchez and Foyth and once again the opportunity had passed us by. Because we have won fuck all in years people are really inflating the Europa League. It's going to be amazing if we win, and I will celebrate crazily because we have been starved of any success but if you think this team would stand a chance against the 16/17 team then you are sorely mistaken. And let's face it, that team saw this competition as a hindrance. They had bigger fish to fry. So let's not kid ourselves that Ange winning a Europa League makes him a Spurs legend. He is simply Ramos. A guy who is the answer to pub quiz question who most Spurs fans rightly don't talk about and have probably forgotten about.
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100% this - people forget or don't care what Poch and that team actually achieved which was making Spurs respected and competitive consistently for years despite things going against us like the owners lack of ambition, bad recruitment (or none at all for 18 months) and losing our home after an unbeaten season there to go to the shithole that is Wembley and STILL compete at the top end of the league.
Winning a pot does not in any way make Ange more successful because football doesn't work that way - we have seen it before as you mentioned with Ramos.
Longevity, consistency and building a squad and club that competes at the top end is what we should be about - not the odd cup as much as I would love it of course, we need both to happen to really progress.
 
superspurs61 said:
And your advocating another change in management and yet another restructure?, surely we've lived through 2 many of them, and it's time to take/try another track.
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I'm all for continuity but to consider another season with Ange in charge would bring this club relegation
I have no doubt of that, would you be prepared to risk that on your try another track ethos
My guess is you're in the win a trophy on Wednesday and everything is just great again with your I always win 2nd season cunt
COYFS!!!!!!!!!
 
Watching his presser was just asked if it could be his penultimate game with the club and he basically said it doesn’t matter, big opportunity for the club to win something and he will continue competing for trophies wherever he ends up.

Definitely sounds like he has been told he won’t be here next season already.
 
ginola92 said:
Watching his presser was just asked if it could be his penultimate game with the club and he basically said it doesn’t matter, big opportunity for the club to win something and he will continue competing for trophies wherever he ends up.

Definitely sounds like he has been told he won’t be here next season already.
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Ange came out firing in that press conference. No timid, scared of the moment type stuff.
 
Nuts said:
Ok, let's say our best players have a good start. What happens when they start dropping? - because if we're in CL, they will for sure. No question. Ange has shown zero ability to coach the B team how to defend as a unit in times of crisis. Our midfield is one big gaper. What makes you think this will change? There is no evidence whatsoever.
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Let's be fair, he hasn't shown any ability to coach the A team to do that either, we just about get by due to the level of individual ability when they're playing.
 
Ive said it before and I will say it again, if he wins tomorrow night, I couldn’t give a solitary fuck if he’s on the touchline to start next season.

Should he come back in this scenario, he’d still be on an extremely short leash so I’m not too fussed one way or another. A slow start and he’s likely axed early days anyway.

Just lift that fucking trophy!
 
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