• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Manager Ange Postecoglou

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Was sacking Ange a good idea?

  • Yes, I think it was a good idea.

    Votes: 72 64.3%
  • No, I think it was a bad idea.

    Votes: 40 35.7%

  • Total voters
    112
There's some of that for sure.

I also think there's just a sheer physics matter of Premier League quality sides being able to recover possession against you more often and to threaten your goal upon recovering possession more rapidly than even equally matched Scottish, Japanese or Australian sides can.

Long, max effort recovery sprints are required to play this way, and the Premier League is going to put a more taxing quantity of those into a player's legs than any other competition in the world.

Andoni Iraola makes similar asks of his players, and they get hurt. Fabian Huerzeler and Roberto de Zerbi, the same.

How do we find some balance?

We should just stop hiring charletans.

Now, Poch lovers cover your ears.

He's an example of why managers typically don't like 10 years at clubs any more. Poch came in and brought in high pressing before Pep. Maybe not invented it, but was ahead of the curve. Fast forward 4 seasons and other teams had well and truly caught on, and Pep came over and showed us how it was really done. There was no Plan B for Poch then, so as much as we might forget, we watched some very miserable football in the last 2 seasons-ish of Poch, and he started doing little tweaks that didn't work (diamond etc), and had no plan B mid game. If we started bad a match, we ended bad.

For me, Ange turned up to the PL with a style that has probably never had to resist the fast, relentless pressing we have in the PL. If he was a decade sooner, he might have dominated. But he isn't - so its like playing chess with out of date opening that people have already figure out how to counter. If you can't tweak and adapt, you're screwed. In his case, he outwardly advertised that he had no plan B ("we won't change", "it's who we are"). Nice soundbites for the fans, but leaving your opponents with no doubts is hardly going to end well.

People will play the "Levy card" with it, but the answer is to find someone who can look at the current squad and make a functional XI out of them. That's not absurd to expect, and arguably what made Redknapp so successful here.
That's also the reason why I can't look past Thomas Frank. He's adapted the team from an attacking dominant Championship to being a pragmatic PL side that succeeded where Kompany's Burnley did not. He has lost (arguably) the best players each year and adapted more. This last season he adapted them again. We really shouldn't be looking for a manager with a Plan A or B, but simply a manager with the ability to put a good side out with the aim to win the match with the players available. I don't think that automatically means sacrificing style either - he's had near 40 PL goals between two of his forwards.

The only adjusting Ange did was to revert to a style I can only describe as reminiscent of the end of the Mourinho or Conte era - players defending for their lives against an onslaught. Again, I don't want to discredit him, but we didn't win the Europa convincingly. Not that it will matter in time, but it didn't serve as some crescendo of progress, but rather a death rattle of a team that promised to be exciting, relentless, and daring
 
I don't think if Mason or anyone else who might have been appointed had been in charge and played negative football in the final he'd automatically be owed another go.

If we did a Chelsea and hired Benitez, and if he did a Chelsea and won the Europa, we'd have no doubt collectively done the Chelsea treble and said "Cheers FSW - you're a legend but you're not what we want full time".
 
Hitting the post 3 times in a game is not bad luck, its poor shooting. For example.
Not really. Blasting it down the middle of the goal is poor shooting, you make it that much easier for a goalkeeper, especially at elite level.

Players are coached to place their shots to the extremes of the goal to make it harder for the keeper to make the save. The window for a striker is much smaller than the area between the posts. Hitting the post 3 times in a game does have an element of misfortune to it, but it's definitely not poor shooting.
 
There's some of that for sure.

I also think there's just a sheer physics matter of Premier League quality sides being able to recover possession against you more often and to threaten your goal upon recovering possession more rapidly than even equally matched Scottish, Japanese or Australian sides can.

Long, max effort recovery sprints are required to play this way, and the Premier League is going to put a more taxing quantity of those into a player's legs than any other competition in the world.

Andoni Iraola makes similar asks of his players, and they get hurt. Fabian Huerzeler and Roberto de Zerbi, the same.

How do we find some balance?


Well, the two aren't the same thing, because of factors like him having recruited and built the team.

And then I continue to think it's ridiculous to act like selling Harry Kane and still finishing a goal-happy 5th bought Ange zero credit or credibility.
The biggest difference between Australia, Japan ( all of Asia really), Scotland and the EPL is the finishing is far more clinical in the EPL. Turnovers get punished in the EPL, something his risk high reward tactics were able to get away with in those other leagues.

Now that has been schooled in the EPL-he has called it the hardest thing he has done in his life-and that he changed his approach dramatically in the latter stages of the Europa, shows he may have learned a valuable lesson.

I know Bosnich has "history" but he's spot on right here:


View: https://www.facebook.com/SkySportsFootball/videos/mark-bosnich-on-previously-debating-with-ange-postecoglou/3736289123288360/
 
I think that's an absolute fact. And that's true across all sports. Not long ago the players weren't olympic athletes crossed with bodybuilders, they just looked like anybody you might know. Perhaps even a top team from 2000 may not be able to match pace required for 90 min today.

If you took them straight out of 2000 yes. But if they were playing today, they would have the benefit of sports science, nutrition, and physical experts at the club....and if at TFC, ended up injured for 12 games per season haha
 
Yeah, perhaps it would have been better to name another caretaker who, if he'd somehow won the Europa Final, would he now be owed another season?

Because Ange was basically a caretaker. He was a dead man walking from approximately the new year. Statements leaking out that even winning the Final may not be enough to save him. They'd printed up his walking papers and were only waiting to hand them over. That's what I call a caretaker, or a glorified one.

I don't think if Mason or anyone else who might have been appointed had been in charge and played negative football in the final he'd automatically be owed another go.

So we're saying then, that Ange gets another year because the final plus something else - plus his record of accomplishments besides - earned him another year? How could that be, there is nothing to his credit at all besides that cup Final.

That's what I mean

I'm actually on the fence ATM. The mooted replacement managers are pretty uninspiring. I also sees sign that he has been able to learn and adapt from his two years in the top flight. It could all turn to shit in the first 5 weeks but that could easily also happen with the new manager embedding his ideas and adapting to the demands of being Tottenham's manager and all that entails.
 
Brilliant question, we've been asking the board this question since they've taken over this club...answers on a postcard...



And this just further's the point really - the board are responsible for how this club's ran...I'm not sure what any of this has to do with your stance though?
You made the representation that there is some intangible barrier between Tottenham and City/Liverpool that would prevent us from applying the same approach to competing on multiple fronts and identifying a manager who best equips us to do that, there's no disagreement that that is down to board mismanagement, but you seem to think Ange is some generational special manager who has some magical ability to be the only man compatible with Levy and ENIC and win trophies. Clearly there is more at play, people who are mentioning the run to the final are primarily doing so to point out that Ange did not overcome insurmountable odds to win it, yes he achieved something others had failed to do, but largely only did what a club of our size should be expected to in that competition, and completely tanked the league campaign to achieve it.
This is fair enough but what kicked off this debate was you shitting on the achievement of us winning of the Europa League, something no manager has done at this club for 40 years.
Quote me.
There's no reading comprehension malfunction, the point you're making is bogus - we got to finals in evidence that we can sustain a challenge on both fronts but so fucking what, are we in football to challenge or football to win?
Why is it acceptable not to challenge for the league? We have enough resources, we've had good enough teams, albeit just 2 or 3 short on the overall squad. Why should we settle for 17th to spin the wheel at cup competitions?
If there's a sustained pattern of this club getting to finals and not winning whilst maintaining a decent league campaign then maybe it cannot be done under this board? We've had many managers come and go that have tried and failed yet this manager has managed to win and the expense of the league, what does that tell you?
It tells me Ange was incapable of utilising an incredibly expensively assembled squad to at the bare minimum prevent us becoming a complete embarrassment in the league in the process of guiding us to (and winning) a final. Something none of the managers who previously guided us to finals needed to do in order to do so.
I think we lost the CL final and previous finals because ultimately we weren't good enough on the day, we won the EL final because ultimately we were good enough, there's a very thin margin between success and failure, this manager has managed to achieve something where our other managers have failed spectacularly, and that's all there is to it.
So we didn't lose those finals from lack of prioritising cups?
 
It could all turn to shit in the first 5 weeks but that could easily also happen with the new manager embedding his ideas and adapting to the demands of being Tottenham's manager and all that entails.

Yes, but if it does - then what? We'd have less options available once the managers have chosen or committed to their seasons. We may have spent a load more on players this summer that the next guy doesn't want, or sold someone he would have wanted.

We'd collectively end up writing off the season with a handicap - possibly humiliated in the super cup, CL.

I don't really see the benefit of sticking with the current manager out of pessimism. That's kind of the same thinking that keeps people trapped in abusive situations. It sounds awfully nihilistic
 
lol????

You’re a bit of a cunt!!

Not really sure you support Spurs or just another Aussie who will fuck off sooner rather than later…..
Now you listen here pal, the lol wasn’t directed at Spurs failing to win, it was directed specifically at the idea of everyone’s lord and saviour Poch throwing away opportunities in the cups to prioritise a league challenge and then completely shitting the bed and finishing 3rd in a 2 horse race. Postecoglou has achieved more tangible success and in less than half the time.

As for being a Spurs fan, honestly no, not in the traditional sense. That doesn’t mean however that I haven’t enjoyed the (bumpy) ride or don’t want the team to be successful. And if you really think about it, I’m kind of a better supporter than a large portion of this thread just by virtue of actually being happy and pleased to see the team and support achieve something worthwhile, not miserable and depressed and desperate to see your own team fail because it proves some sad point against the manager.

It should be noted that there are also people on this forum not from the absolute lunatic fringe of society, who like about 90% of Spurs fans in the real world hold sensible views like: league form shit and not good enough / several mitigating factors to take into account / cup win a fantastic achievement. And then formulate opinions based on those and other factors, which regardless of whether they fall on the side of he should stay or go, are reasonable either way.
 
Well whatever happens I'm sure once the decision is made we'll rally around the manager whoever that may be and give them a jolly good huzzah :cautious:
 
Brighton had a worse injury list than Spurs and still managed a top 8 finish (23 more points), came from 2 down at home to beat us and wiped the floor with us on our home ground.
Brighton were not in Europe and had 1 game per week.

Spurs averaged a game every 3.5 days for 2.5 months.

Spurs played 10 more games than anyone else in the premier league.

Surely you can see why the injury crisis had such a detrimental effect.
 
Brighton were not in Europe and had 1 game per week.

Spurs averaged a game every 3.5 days for 2.5 months.

Spurs played 10 more games than anyone else in the premier league.

Surely you can see why the injury crisis had such a detrimental effect.
What the hell are you on about spurs played 10 more games than anyone else ?

That is just total bollocks/lies/false


And from an individual player basis we had no player start more than 44 games, Loads of teams had multiple players with many more minutes than any of our players.
 
Last edited:
The luck is in the fact we played absolutely nobody who was actually good you absolute fruitcake. 16th in the prem. In a final. THAT is luck.

I am as happy as a porker in shite about our EL win, a big achievement for us.

BUT

I do agree with you that we didn't look like going out at any stage, and against BodoDodo had it not been for an unlucky deflected goal we would have cruised through 5-0 on aggregate.

True that you can only beat what is put out in front of you, but the PSG game will bring us all back down to Earth i think.
 
Now you listen here pal, the lol wasn’t directed at Spurs failing to win, it was directed specifically at the idea of everyone’s lord and saviour Poch throwing away opportunities in the cups to prioritise a league challenge and then completely shitting the bed and finishing 3rd in a 2 horse race. Postecoglou has achieved more tangible success and in less than half the time.

As for being a Spurs fan, honestly no, not in the traditional sense. That doesn’t mean however that I haven’t enjoyed the (bumpy) ride or don’t want the team to be successful. And if you really think about it, I’m kind of a better supporter than a large portion of this thread just by virtue of actually being happy and pleased to see the team and support achieve something worthwhile, not miserable and depressed and desperate to see your own team fail because it proves some sad point against the manager.

It should be noted that there are also people on this forum not from the absolute lunatic fringe of society, who like about 90% of Spurs fans in the real world hold sensible views like: league form shit and not good enough / several mitigating factors to take into account / cup win a fantastic achievement. And then formulate opinions based on those and other factors, which regardless of whether they fall on the side of he should stay or go, are reasonable either way.
Do you know how fucking insane it is to be going on a Tottenham Hotspur forum as a Celtic fan passionately defending a manager who left you two fucking years ago? He's been gone for as long as he was there. Are you really trying to say that your weird obsession with the fortunes of one of your former managers is grounds to make you a better Spurs fan, than actual Spurs fans? You've got more front than Brighton Pier slagging anyone off for defending Poch, a former Tottenham manager, on a Tottenham Forum, when you're on here cosplaying as a Spurs fan to stan for Ange the same way 13 year old girls do for Taylor Swift...
Nearly 500 posts on a different club's forum just because a manager who spent 2 years at your club is now there and you think he might need defending from horrible online haters. Fucking embarrassing.
By the way, Poch took a side that had only twice before qualified for the Champions League since it was reformatted from the European cup to a final inside 5 years, and a team that hadn't finished in the top 3 since 1992, to three consecutive top three finishes. Ange took a side that hadn't finished outside the top 10 since 2007/08 (11th) to it's lowest finish in 48 years. To even pretend they operate in the same stratosphere when it comes to league competency is completely churlish.
 
Last edited:
Yes, because there exists no such thing as a manager who can balance results in the league with cup success. The ONLY way Tottenham Hotspur FC can possibly win a trophy is by finishing 17th on 38 points.

FdNMRhx.png
 
Do you know how fucking insane it is to be going on a Tottenham Hotspur forum as a Celtic fan passionately defending a manager who left you two fucking years ago? He's been gone for as long as he was there. Are you really trying to say that your weird obsession with the fortunes of one of your former managers is grounds to make you a better Spurs fan, than actual Spurs fans? You've got more front than Brighton Pier slagging anyone off for defending Poch, a former Tottenham manager, on a Tottenham Forum, when you're on here cosplaying as a Spurs fan to stan for Ange the same way 13 year old girls do for Taylor Swift...
Nearly 500 posts on a different club's forum just because a manager who spent 2 years at your club is now there and you think he might need defending from horrible online haters. Fucking embarrassing.
By the way, Poch took a side that had only twice before qualified for the Champions League since it was reformatted from the European cup to a final inside 5 years, and a team that hadn't finished in the top 3 since 1992, to three consecutive top three finishes. Ange took a side that hadn't finished outside the top 10 since 2007/08 (11th) to it's lowest finish in 48 years. To even pretend they operate in the same stratosphere when it comes to league competency is completely churlish.
I remember watching Poch live in preseason his first year and he was ruthless. Cut half the squad to get us playing better.
 
Back
Top