Manager Ange Postecoglou

[harry7]

I don't think he could with us. He's too negative both in how he plays and how he (de-) motivates the players. Tactically I still don't know what exactly his tactics were. I'm not sure what boxes he ticked or how good his Powerpoint presentation was to to the board when he was interviewed.

And he owes me big time for the hours of sleep I lost watching us play "I'd rather put a needle in my eyes than watch whatever it was the players were meant to be doing but play football" football.

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You can't consistently win trophies and compete at the top level of the league playing pragmatic football. You need to take risks and implement a style that dictates the game.

But then......That is not the Spurs boards desire.

Spurs only want to finish in the top 4 places, qualify for Europe and reach the latter stages of the European competitions. Maximise profit, control spending without risk.

The cost of winning the PL or European Leagues is far too high and doesn't make financial sense. Spurs hierarchy is filled with accountants and marketing execs - Not Football fans, and not Spurs fans. Their desire is not to win; it is to make money.

Ange = Win, or die trying. (risk)
Frank = Pragmatist. Smart, tactical and a realist without expectations of lifting trophies. On paper, the ideal Spurs coach for the board.

 

[marxoulis]

Frank and Ange play very different football. Ange had good xG metrics at Forest too.. bad actual results. At a certain point the question mark has to be whether the style he favours was looking good on xG but not in practice consistently. Until everything fell apart and then we were bad on and off paper .. which is partly because again, bad in adversity. Angeball on paper with everyone fit and firing and with momentum can and did have very strong games. IIRC our xG was actually misleading as we’d have matches where we’d score 4 and be great and then drop off entirely the next game. It wasn’t consistent.

Frank didn’t work. And I argued with a couple of people who stubbornly said otherwise past the obvious point in regard to that, I.e thinky. I’m very happy with Frank to hold my hands up & say he was a bad choice but one I backed, he ended up being extremely uninspired and with no progression anywhere. The difference is there is almost nobody who will argue for Frank on here. I also just generally wish him well - he’s not a huge ego like Ange.

I have never stated that Ange was “the” problem - have always been pretty consistent that the squad has big holes in it. I do think it’s better than where we currently are, even with injuries. I do still think there’s a failure in coaching consistently here. I actually believe we pulled the trigger too late on Frank and if an interim was given a kinder run and more time, that interim could’ve had some success.

“Nowhere near as bad” is a stretch. Frank was sacked in 16th. Like Ange he had continental success but poor league results. The difference is a bit of silverware but I see zero factual basis that it is impossible Frank could win a Europa under the same circumstances. He beat as good or better teams in Europe and got 4th in the CL. They’re both comparable league failures this season & last.

I’ll also be fair to Frank & say this is a team built more for Ange than him. Ange got multiple transfer windows. A lot of what Frank wants/needs in his team simply didn’t exist at spurs. I’m not saying we should’ve given him it as the vision was hardly utopia - but Ange finished 17th with Son and 4 transfer windows. Frank got 1.

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What happened to you? I'm very pleasantly surprised. No insults, no fat*, no rage just calm arguments and opinions. I will start reading your posts (no offence).

 

[Skippa18]

Not that you actually care about an good faith discussion going by your first reply to my post but the simple answer is I want Spurs not to be relegated and De Zerbi seems to me a better candidate for achieving that than the completely insane idea of getting Redknapp and Sherwood to stick their arms around the players and show them "The Tottenham Way " - from people who are neither really "Spurs" nor would any of our players probably recognise if they passed them in the street.

So De Zerbi is a serious option and serious manager who would command the respect and attention of our players and play football in a way that would appeal to them. That's what we need imo. Ange has similar plusses but obviously also has all the baggage of the 22 loss season. That's it really.

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Its because De Zerbi is a better manager.

Postecoglou wouldn't come now anyway because hes self serving, and wouldn't want to further ruin his reputation. Hes managed 2 Premier league teams and both now find themselves at the bottom end of the Premier league.
If he did however get the job I would hope he does well and keeps us up.

I just dont understand how he has such support, when he didn't do a good job.

 

[Spaniel]

Its because De Zerbi is a better manager.

Postecoglou wouldn't come now anyway because hes self serving, and wouldn't want to further ruin his reputation. Hes managed 2 Premier league teams and both now find themselves at the bottom end of the Premier league.
If he did however get the job I would hope he does well and keeps us up.

I just dont understand how he has such support, when he didn't do a good job.

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It's a cult mate..like maga...

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

It's a cult mate..like maga...

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[Phomesy]

Its because De Zerbi is a better manager.

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Probably. I don't know as he's never had to manage Spurs. Which is, of course, the acid test in these things. Conte couldn't make it work.

Postecoglou wouldn't come now anyway because hes self serving, and wouldn't want to further ruin his reputation.

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Like De Zerbi then?

If he did however get the job I would hope he does well and keeps us up.

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That's reassuring.

I just dont understand how he has such support, when he didn't do a good job.

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Sigh. I don't know how many times I have to point this out but I will continue to do so in case it ever sinks in.

There is a thread specifically asking the question of who we want to be our Next Manager (perm): Postecoglou has 38 votes representing 7.9% of the vote. SO I'm not exactly sure what you're so upset about?

Perhaps you're mistaking "support" for just normal people pushing back on the ridiculous hate he gets from the noisy Derangers amongst our fanbase? People rightly being grateful for getting Spurs playing football again after the absolute dross Conte/Stellini/Mason left us with? The Top 5 finish. Bilbao? These are all great things he did for us. Overall it didn't work out and he was sacked.

What's happening now is just a natural hindsight review of the fact that, actually, he probably did much better with this squad than we thought at the time. Because we now have a comparison. It would only seem logical, after the catastrophe of this season, to wonder if actually most Spurs fans vastly underestimated the impact of the injuries last season, and vastly overestimated the relative depth and quality of our squad.

I'm about to highlight the perfect example of that in my next post

The question you need to ask yourself is: "why am I so worked up about people not hating Ange Postecoglou?"

 

[Phomesy]

It's a cult mate..like maga...

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What's the name of the cult that believes our Squad is so super dooper brillo that in August with the Bad Man gone you thought spurs should be :

Playing for 2nd or 3rd is more realistic imo..I don't think we're quite up to Liverpool standard but we can certainly beat Chelsea and Woolwich. Definitely a CL place...

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I mean you got your wish and Postecoglou was sacked so surely we'd be flying up the table? Some people thought you might be joking. But no:

No...I'm not...I think under frank with hopefully no injuries it's a real possibility. Where's yer optimism?

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Is it a "Frank Cult" you're in? You a FrankBoi? Is that how this all works?

 

[marxoulis]

Its because De Zerbi is a better manager.

Postecoglou wouldn't come now anyway because hes self serving, and wouldn't want to further ruin his reputation. Hes managed 2 Premier league teams and both now find themselves at the bottom end of the Premier league.
If he did however get the job I would hope he does well and keeps us up.

I just dont understand how he has such support, when he didn't do a good job.

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Obviously, those (of us) who support him believe that he did a good job under the circumstances. But of course, it ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion. Each side has its own arguments.

 

[Hotspurpaul]

What's the name of the cult that believes our Squad is so super dooper brillo that in August with the Bad Man gone you thought spurs should be :



I mean you got your wish and Postecoglou was sacked so surely we'd be flying up the table? Some people thought you might be joking. But no:



Is it a "Frank Cult" you're in? You a FrankBoi? Is that how this all works?

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It must be 'cos Frank won us that.....oh.....

 

[Phomesy]

Obviously, those (of us) who support him believe that he did a good job under the circumstances. But of course, it ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion. Each side has its own arguments.

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Exactly.

What's baffling is the people who simply cannot accept this in good faith.

And why those people keep coming to this thread to pick fights?

Very strange behaviour indeed.

 

[Mick Cooper]

I can't think of a returning sacked manager who has really achieved anything second time round.

As much as I loved what Poch did - I think we were his pinnacle.

We need new blood, new ideas, new methodology and a new sense of purpose - and in reality, pretty much a new squad.

 

[Mick Cooper]

By the way, how many managers who we have had - got us into Europe in their first season and won a trophy (European or domestic) in the second season?

And won the trophy with most of the first team missing for the majority of the season.

 

[John Duncan]

By the way, how many managers who we have had - got us into Europe in their first season and won a trophy (European or domestic) in the second season?

And won the trophy with most of the first team missing for the majority of the season.

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I hear you and the answer is 1 .

But medical statisticians on here will tell you that n = 1 studies never prove anything apart from when they prove everything.

I’ve left this ambiguous on purpose; just in case there are a few Statisticians reading this ( Bazali ? or possibly his good mate Deuterz ) reading this .

 

[Phomesy]

I can't think of a returning sacked manager who has really achieved anything second time round.

As much as I loved what Poch did - I think we were his pinnacle.

We need new blood, new ideas, new methodology and a new sense of purpose - and in reality, pretty much a new squad.

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Agree. I've actually voted Poch on the New Manager thread but that's just simply because of exhaustion from it all...

 

[Mick Cooper]

I hear you and the answer is 1 .

But medical statisticians on here will tell you that n = 1 studies never prove anything apart from when they prove everything.

I’ve left this ambiguous on purpose; just in case there are a few Statisticians reading this ( Bazali ? or possibly his good mate Deuterz ) reading this .

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Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's the holy grail of managers, I just think that he got massive amounts of desperately unfair criticism and abuse - and people seem desperate to piss on his grave at every opportunity. Ditto Frank who had an unfit or crippled squad to try to perform miracles with. We have a squad if all were fully fit and playing to their best and remained fit throughout the season would, at best have been somewhere between 5 and 7th IMHO - because we no longer have peak form Kane, Lloris, Son to dig us out of trouble.
I doubt we will ever attract a top end manager as long as our squad is as "meh" as it is currently and the management fail to open their wallets for top class performers.

But hey - we can get Beyonce and Taylor Swift to play here........ sadly they're even more shite at football than they are at making decent music.

 

[GinolasLeftFoot]

Do you Ange fan boi's have posters of Graham and Ramos on the wall, and relentlessly wank over them too?

No, why not? They won silverware too.

 

[Phomesy]

Do you Ange fan boi's have posters of Graham and Ramos on the wall, and relentlessly wank over them too?

No, why not? They won silverware too.

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Christ this take is so fucking lame. Ramos won the (lesser) League Cup trophy with Jol's team not his own. Then, when he had a summer to make the side his own, got 2 points from 8 games and was sacked.

So no, he and Graham (for similar reasons) don't have the same sense of fond memories as a manager whose second last game in charge was us winning our first European trophy in 40 years. This might be hard to understand for someone as spectacularly dim as you are so here's a few videos and pictures that might help you get it:


View: https://x.com/soccerforeverhq/status/1926073949718192351


View: https://x.com/TottenhamTiers/status/1931016375071387761


View: https://x.com/thespursweb/status/1928499793514377609


Since then, you got what you wanted, he was sacked, and we're on the brink of relegation. I suggest you worry more about that than normal people looking back with some fondness on the comparative sunlit uplands of the Postecoglou era than the absolute shit fest you've been applauding all year.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

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I think it should be mandatory to have any gifs of Trump behind a spoiler! Gives me the eebee jeebees every time it comes up!

 

[Deuterz]

Christ this take is so fucking lame. Ramos won the (lesser) League Cup trophy

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Lesser in prestige but actually harder to win and we beat much better teams to do it. From a fan perspective not as big, from a manager getting credit perspective a bigger deal.

 

[Percy Clay]

For the life of me, I'll never understand why any Spurs fan would try to diminish the winning of a major trophy. I couldn't care less whether we had a tougher run to win the League Cup in 2008.

I enjoyed that victory immensely because it had been nearly a decade since our previous trophy. The Europa League gave me even more joy because it was a European trophy, and it had been 17 years since the League Cup win.

We can debate the merits, or otherwise, of managers over the years. I would prefer if the discussions were civil, but in these times of incivilty, I suppose that is too much to expect.

Surely the one thing that should bring joy to all fans is the celebration, without equivocation, of a trophy win?