Seems to have lost a lot of that confidence that he had at Leeds. That Chelsea game that he dominated in the midfield and looked like a star in the making.
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Player Archie Gray
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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A loan would be a good idea. He is not going to get enough minutes to develop properly this season.
He’s miles behind the other midfielders at the moment and a good PL loan where he will start matches regularly would be best for him.
We have CL, PL and 2 domestic cups, plus we are Spurs there will be injuries
Every single midfielder we have at the club including Bissouma is ahead of him yet posters still can't see the benefits of a loan.
Maddison, Kulu, Palhinha, Sarr, Bergvall, Bentancur, Bissouma are all superior and ahead of him. Even if we sell Bissouma it still makes sense to loan him.
He has been positionally atrocious every time he's played in the middle.
Because Bentancur has such a great track record with availability…
Maybe we get lucky and an offer comes in for Bentancur
Bentancur is generally reliable besides the big injuries he's had. It's not like he gets numerous random injuries.
Are you still not accepting Gray looks absolutely clueless in midfield and clinging on to that game vs Chelsea when he was at Leeds as justification?
Even if Bentancur AND Bissouma went I'd still loan out Gray and bring in someone else. That's how much I believe he is not ready.
His availability is terrible and his mobility is bang average.
Even if Both stay and Palinha comes in, Gray is getting plenty of minutes
you're in dream world because you can't bring yourself to admit it's not looking good so you're just saying outlandish crap based on nothing.
If you actually believe that if BOTH Bentancur and Bissouma stay and if Palihinha is brought in that Gray "gets plenty of minutes" then you're on another planet.
edit
Just to clarify I'm not a Bentancur fan much either. When I say he's "reliable" I'm talking about availability not performance.
As far as I can tell, he has had one good game (against Chelsea before he joined us), similar to Winks (who had one good game against Real, and that got people backing his ability for 5 years, but ultimately the one game was the exception)
Certainly looked totally out of place every game in midfield, to such an extent that at times I would question how he’s made it this far, but when he played in back 4 he looked a lot better. Based on what has been seen so far it could be a case of needing to specialise in defence for him to succeed, unless we really think midfield will be his long term position, in which case he needs to go out to basically learn the role.
But sending him out on loan would screw up his future club trained status for Europe, so that needs to be weighed up..
Certainly looked totally out of place every game in midfield, to such an extent that at times I would question how he’s made it this far, but when he played in back 4 he looked a lot better. Based on what has been seen so far it could be a case of needing to specialise in defence for him to succeed, unless we really think midfield will be his long term position, in which case he needs to go out to basically learn the role.
But sending him out on loan would screw up his future club trained status for Europe, so that needs to be weighed up..
His best season for us was last year with 26 PL appearances. Gray had 28 appearances as an 18 year old last year and will only get better from here.
Anyway, you’re certain you are right. Let’s see.
And at CB as well really. People talked him up there but he was often a few yards behind the defensive line and caught ball watching. We conceded a few chances and goals through that.
At the moment I’m not seeing it in any position or in any part of his game and don’t really see the big scope to improve into. I think he’s fairly basic unfortunately.
The difference is this season we have a coaching staff who train patterns of play and positioning, & have a track record of improving players.
In particular, Justin Cochrane is credited with helping bring Kobbie Mainoo through when he was Head of Player Development at yanited.
With Palhinha likely to sign, we don't have to play Archie Gray every week, or change his position on a regular basis.
Let our coaches coach, and see how they can develop the 19-year-old Archie. He played a lot of football last season, both for club and the U21s. If he's not getting enough game time by Christmas, we can always consider a loan in the January window.
In particular, Justin Cochrane is credited with helping bring Kobbie Mainoo through when he was Head of Player Development at yanited.
With Palhinha likely to sign, we don't have to play Archie Gray every week, or change his position on a regular basis.
Let our coaches coach, and see how they can develop the 19-year-old Archie. He played a lot of football last season, both for club and the U21s. If he's not getting enough game time by Christmas, we can always consider a loan in the January window.
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Yeah, he was not good as a CB. He played with heart but an objective assessment of his displays would be that he struggled manfully.
If we want him to become club-trained then yeah, makes sense to keep him here but the best thing for his actual football would be a loan.
Which position? We’ve just signed an experienced DM. Where does he play ahead of any other midfielders?
Maybe if Bissouma goes he gets more game time. Otherwise he’s a squad gap player this year.
That's what he and the coaching staff need to figure out
People has patience for Bergvall but almost none for Archie. Sad.
He needs to be playing beside real good players to improve. Your confidence can't be sky high playing out of positions numerous times last season beside Davies and Radu, no disrespects to both.
If he can have game time beside Bentancur and the incoming Palhinha this season, I think he will grow alot. He has to stay with us. Our core youngsters have to stay and grow together.
He needs to be playing beside real good players to improve. Your confidence can't be sky high playing out of positions numerous times last season beside Davies and Radu, no disrespects to both.
If he can have game time beside Bentancur and the incoming Palhinha this season, I think he will grow alot. He has to stay with us. Our core youngsters have to stay and grow together.
Yeah. Think he just needs to play games and find his position
I think this is a case of expectation and reality actively undermining the player. So here's the problem if he'd gone to Brentford under Frank working every day with Cochrane, flying under the radar good games poor ones loads of indifferent in and out the side he'd have probably felt less emotional scrutiny. By the time he's ready for the Spurs move in 18 months guess what Levy wouldn't pay what they'd want. He really should be out on loan and allowed time to learn. Yes he cost alot but he is not ready yet to start at Spurs.
Remember similar discussions about Sarr after his first season with us, some saying keep, some saying he needed a loan, some referencing the AC Milan performance, some the 6-1 defeat to Newcastle where he went off after 23 mins at 5-0 down. He started 2 PL games that season aged 20 and a couple of season's later and he got the winning assist in the Europa League final and just scored a 45 yard worldie against Woolwich (albeit in preseason). Gray's 19, he'll develop.