The people that think this lad is going to be anything more than an average PL CM need to think again. He has no outstanding attributes other than above average technique and above average is it, nothing more than that. He’s slow as fuck, he turns like the QE2 and he’s weak as piss. Oliver Skipp offered more than he does.
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Player Archie Gray
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Oliver Skipp v a 19 year old Archie Grey, no question at all that Skipp plays each time. Longer term, don’t know. But would reflect that 22-23 years old is still sometime away, and £40m looks really rash spending.
Still very young so still think we shouldn't be drawing massive conclusions about him. There really aren't many teenagers playing regularly in CM at all in the PL. Like literally 1 or 2 others. The fact he's holding his own is genuinely something - it's easy to say you've seen 100s of better youngsters, but have you seen them do it aged 19 in the best league in world? That's a different thing entirely to youth football.
But atm, yes, he doesn't look like a £40m player and we're banking on potential. When you spend such big money on these youngsters, you kinda need them to explode within a few years and the more I see of Archie the more I wonder if we've bought him more on hype and one amazing game vs Chelsea than his true potential.
Jury very much still out on him, and I think he'll prove to be a useful long-term squad player at the very least, but we need more in that position if we want to compete at the top of the table.
If we had better players in his position I think he'd ideally be better off going on loan tbh. Bergvall's the one with the higher ceiling that we should be persevering with right now in central midfield but Frank doesn't trust him.
But atm, yes, he doesn't look like a £40m player and we're banking on potential. When you spend such big money on these youngsters, you kinda need them to explode within a few years and the more I see of Archie the more I wonder if we've bought him more on hype and one amazing game vs Chelsea than his true potential.
Jury very much still out on him, and I think he'll prove to be a useful long-term squad player at the very least, but we need more in that position if we want to compete at the top of the table.
If we had better players in his position I think he'd ideally be better off going on loan tbh. Bergvall's the one with the higher ceiling that we should be persevering with right now in central midfield but Frank doesn't trust him.
Could we possibly do worse by the lad? Still a teen, should have been out on loan for further development, not conscripted into four different positions between last year and this (central defender, right back, holding midfielder, attacking midfielder) and expected to be a key contributor to an allegedly top team.
Foolish to judge too early. But whatever faults we are finding now, I expect the blame lies more with our disastrous management and development than with him.
Foolish to judge too early. But whatever faults we are finding now, I expect the blame lies more with our disastrous management and development than with him.
Probably but he’s 19 and not far off our current midfield.
I’d rather keep him over Bentancur.
I would keep Archie’s dear old Nan over Bentancur.
For me, Frank's inability to either identify, or have the confidence to play, players like Bergvall, who we absolutely need to develop as quickly as possible, is a death sentence for his tenure here. I really don't have any confidence that Frank can figure this absolutely key aspect out.
Gray has good qualities to be a 8 or a 6, or even as a CB, but a 10 he certainly is not.
The poster who said that he is weak is dead wrong- Archie held off a CB and then turned them into the box before getting hacked down on a non-call that should have been a pen today. That wouldn't have happened if he was "weak".
Frank playing him as a 10 today was a waste, but it's not Gray's fault. There are many of our players at the moment, as with last season, who look worse than they actually are because of insufficiently good coaching.
The poster who said that he is weak is dead wrong- Archie held off a CB and then turned them into the box before getting hacked down on a non-call that should have been a pen today. That wouldn't have happened if he was "weak".
Frank playing him as a 10 today was a waste, but it's not Gray's fault. There are many of our players at the moment, as with last season, who look worse than they actually are because of insufficiently good coaching.
Unfortunately, the evidence points to this.
He seems a nothing player. The sort who some fans elevate when we winning.
Looks like a Skipp, Winks, Carroll or Mason..
None of those players ever were a successful Premier League CB, which Archie already is.
I very much doubt Gray is being coached towards a more expansive passing game by conservative, tinkering Frank, which is something that is very much needed with young players to help encourage them to grow into their overall potential game.
Honestly I think your comments are indicative of a depressed fanbase, externalizing frustration with the poor coaching and projecting it onto the players themselves.
This has become a thing Frank does , throws a bit of shit and hope that it sticks .
This was done off a nice little cameo there at the end of the last game .
How many different positions has he tried young players like Gray and Bergvell , they're not alone , he's just guessing on a weekly basis .
He experiments alot but can't seem to make any useful conclusions from the results. Not being able to figure out a best way to integrate all our best players is going to be his downfall.
Yeah I came into this season thinking Bergvall was arguably our best player. Not the complete package exactly but certainly the player most likely to explode and potentially become a talisman. No coincidence he was our player of the season last year yet this year he's been nowhere near those levels.
We've really lacked dynamism in the middle of the park without him and I'd much rather we give him games in his best position and let him make mistakes but develop rather than farming him out at CAM and LW where he's a bit shit.
When people talk about our squad lacking talent, Bergvall's a prime example of decent talent being mis-used.
100%. Its a damn shame too.
Madness. Bentancur showed again last night that he’s levels above him. I’d wager Gray never gets to Bentancur’s level.
Bentancur was much better than him last night. Gray is just a kid but he’s 19 now and played a lot of first team football. I don’t see much in his game that makes me think he’ll kick and be a top centre mid. He doesn’t really have any outstanding attributes to be honest. He’s very risk free just like all our midfielders and there is the problem. Maybe he’d flourish more with different types like a playmaker sitting deep and a clever 10?
19 years old is young but there’s hundreds of teenagers playing first team football all over the world that have more to their game than Archie.
The Grayter agenda is weird but whatever, let them do whatever makes them feel good.
It has to be about feels because logic tells you the entire team was awful but picking out the 19 year old who had your best chance cleared almost off the line and should’ve been awarded a penalty, isn’t the most rational position to take.
The rational position to take would be watching his overall performance and noting that he was nowhere near being in the game for a full 90 minutes in the midfield again. He literally is a yard off the pace in every match he plays in there chasing shadows. As a PL level CM he is poor and I’d expect a player like him to be getting regular minutes in a team like a relegation fodder Southampton side, not Tottenham Hotspur. Yes he’s 19 but he seriously has nothing outstanding to his game that suggests he’s ever going to impose himself. He’s a decent passer of the ball and is a little press resistant but that is literally it. He’s below par by a long way on strength, agility, burst of pace, pace over longer distances, aggression. Physically he is absolutely poor for this level right now. He’s 19 so this will improve but RIGHT NOW he is nowhere near it.
Archie 'does nothing' Gray, he's an expert in existing.
He’s 19 man.. not got a problem with him at all, the fact he’s got these expectations in the first place is the fault of our recruitment