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Player Archie Gray

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Papafeels said:
Speaking of making up crap. Do you have this ocean of readily available data you said you had, that explicitly showed that he was one of the Worst midfielders in the league?
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His numbers on Fbref were pretty damn terrible before the site lost its data a few weeks ago. Even worse progressive passing than Palhinha or Bentancur, which was surprising, and average/poor in most other areas.

I think Gray's got bags of potential and think his attitude is brilliant. Think he could potentially develop into a really great player. But at the same time, I think one of the many factors behind our struggle this season is that we've been regularly playing a 19 y/o prospect in one of the most important positions in the park when he's still a way off being top 6 or even top half standard as a midfielder.

His best performances this season have been at full-back imo. He's getting there as a midfielder and he's got tons of time to improve, but he's not good enough to be relied on there yet. Bergvall's far more ready to play in the PL an 8 - it's a shame Frank was too cowardly to regularly him in his best position before he got injured.
 
Sir Archibald Crooks said:
Blimey tough crowd. I'm not seeing Archie Gray amongst the multitude of problems we have at the moment. He's a decent footballer who has done pretty well over 2 seasons under terrible management in a basket case environment....at 19. There is a player there given a bit of proper coaching and a half decent side. How good we dont know yet.
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Gray is part of the problem at Spurs unfortunately. We spent 40m on him and hes nowhere near prem starter level for a top 6 side.

That money could have been spent on someone else with more experience. Look at the impact gallagher has made and cost less than Gray.
 
PatagoniaPhil said:
Gray is part of the problem at Spurs unfortunately. We spent 40m on him and hes nowhere near prem starter level for a top 6 side.

That money could have been spent on someone else with more experience. Look at the impact gallagher has made and cost less than Gray.
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Think we need to be patient with him and judge him on where he is in a couple years time.

But as a general piece of squad building, it was a massive mistake. That summer we desperately needed experienced bodies in the squad. Getting 1 teenage midfielder on the cheap (Bergvall) was fine, but shelling out a huge chunk of our budget on another young prospect was poor from Lange.

We basically needed him to instantly be top 6 standard given the fee we paid and the make-up of our squad and he's still not there yet 18 months later.

Going young is fine IF you supplement that with experience. Lange punted almost exclusively on youth that summer and it's a big part of why we've been in this mess for the past 2 seasons.

Feels mental to say, but in retrospect there's no way we're 17th in the table last season and in a relegation fight this one if we have Hojbjerg fit and playing semi-regularly over the past 2 seasons. And that's mr pointy average man Hojbjerg. Sometimes you just need a few PL-proven all-rounders to keep the base level of the squad at a certain standard.
 
Timberwolf said:
Think we need to be patient with him and judge him on where he is in a couple years time.

But as a general piece of squad building, it was a massive mistake. That summer we desperately needed experienced bodies in the squad. Getting 1 teenage midfielder on the cheap (Bergvall) was fine, but shelling out a huge chunk of our budget on another young prospect was poor from Lange.

We basically needed him to instantly be top 6 standard given the fee we paid and the make-up of our squad and he's still not there yet 18 months later.

Going young is fine IF you supplement that with experience. Lange punted almost exclusively on youth that summer and it's a big part of why we've been in this mess for the past 2 seasons.
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Sarr, Berval and Vuskevic were good punts. Not too expensive. 40m for a prospect is 4x too much. Especially ine tgat doest score or create.

Kinsky was a waste too. 12m on a young unproven keeper.
 
PatagoniaPhil said:
Sarr, Berval and Vuskevic were good punts. Not too expensive. 40m for a prospect is 4x too much. Especially ine tgat doest score or create.

Kinsky was a waste too. 12m on a young unproven keeper.
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Yeah - someone in the profile of Alex Scott would've been a better signing. 3 years older, about 10-15m cheaper. Still a v.talented kid with high up-side but with that bit more experience. Risk/Reward much better balanced.

Think he went to Bournemouth a year earlier so not really an option the summer we got Gray, but that's a type of deal that would've made more sense.
 
PatagoniaPhil said:
Gray is part of the problem at Spurs unfortunately. We spent 40m on him and hes nowhere near prem starter level for a top 6 side.

That money could have been spent on someone else with more experience. Look at the impact gallagher has made and cost less than Gray.
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Um... Has Gallagher made an impact greater than Gray since the time they've both been starting together?

I like both as footballers. But I've been disappointed in Gallagher since he arrived and think Gray's been one of our best performed players in the last month. 🤷‍♂️
 
Just don’t see what he excels at, or what potential he has to be an elite player. 40m was nuts.

He should be out on loan along with Odobert, Bergval, Tel getting regular starts and developing. Not playing for a team who are supposed to be a top 6 side.
 
bus-conductor said:
Just don’t see what he excels at, or what potential he has to be an elite player. 40m was nuts.

He should be out on loan along with Odobert, Bergval, Tel getting regular starts and developing. Not playing for a team who are supposed to be a top 6 side.
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100pc. He looks timid, plays timid. Doesnt bring much to the table.

Im not ever sure our scouting department watches games. They probably filter on age in ascneing order with senior club appearences.

All those players you mentioned would be loaned at Strasbourg or Girona if the were owned by Chelsea or City.

The way this club is run is amateur. So far behind the curve. Its worse than the Alan Sugar days. At least they used to buy some prem proven players like Fox, Dozzell and Rosenthal. This lot are even worse.
 
Some of these takes are nonsense.

Gray is a gem. He's been one of the only ones that looks like he's been trying under Frank.

Will be a star for us. Hoping Ivor and then Poch (probably) can help, rather than hinder, the kid.
 
Bill-bao Bob said:
Some of these takes are nonsense.

Gray is a gem. He's been one of the only ones that looks like he's been trying under Frank.

Will be a star for us. Hoping Ivor and then Poch (probably) can help, rather than hinder, the kid.
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No doubt on the potential but we should have signed him to a long contract and loaned him back to Leeds where he was playing regularly in midfield. At the same time we should have signed someone ready for the first team on a 3 year deal. I think that is more sensible planning.
 
Crockett said:
No doubt on the potential but we should have signed him to a long contract and loaned him back to Leeds where he was playing regularly in midfield. At the same time we should have signed someone ready for the first team on a 3 year deal. I think that is more sensible planning.
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How do you think this place would have reacted if we spent £40m on a player and loaned him out when we were struggling with injuries last season?

He contributed last season massively. Covered a number of positions when needed.

He's been a victim of the shit-show that has been the last couple of seasons. Get proper managers behind him and he'll shine even more.
 
Timberwolf said:
His numbers on Fbref were pretty damn terrible before the site lost its data a few weeks ago. Even worse progressive passing than Palhinha or Bentancur, which was surprising, and average/poor in most other areas.

I think Gray's got bags of potential and think his attitude is brilliant. Think he could potentially develop into a really great player. But at the same time, I think one of the many factors behind our struggle this season is that we've been regularly playing a 19 y/o prospect in one of the most important positions in the park when he's still a way off being top 6 or even top half standard as a midfielder.

His best performances this season have been at full-back imo. He's getting there as a midfielder and he's got tons of time to improve, but he's not good enough to be relied on there yet. Bergvall's far more ready to play in the PL an 8 - it's a shame Frank was too cowardly to regularly him in his best position before he got injured.
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He is (when compared to other midfielder)
10% percentile in assisted goals
1% expected assisted goals
5% in shots
33% in non penalty goals
1% in shot creating chances
2% in progressive passes
2% in tackles won
27% in aerials won

The only stat he is good at is clearances 97%



Those were the stats of him playing in midfield which i have posted a few times. Saying that, he definitely has played better when played as a rb.
 
Bill-bao Bob said:
How do you think this place would have reacted if we spent £40m on a player and loaned him out when we were struggling with injuries last season?

He contributed last season massively. Covered a number of positions when needed.

He's been a victim of the shit-show that has been the last couple of seasons. Get proper managers behind him and he'll shine even more.
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When we signed him we couldn’t have known he would plug gaps. We signed him as a midfielder.

To have squad depth in defence maybe don’t loan a youth international who actually plays the position to Stoke then never recall him!
 
Crockett said:
When we signed him we couldn’t have known he would plug gaps. We signed him as a midfielder.

To have squad depth in defence maybe don’t loan a youth international who actually plays the position to Stoke then never recall him!
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Of course we couldn't have known but even take away the injury point...we spend £40m on a player, I want him with us, not out on loan.
 
Matt1882 said:
Gallagher cost a lot more than Gray.
Gray is on aprox £3.9m a year for 6 years. £23.4m.
Gallagher is on a 5 year contract at £9.75m - £48.75m

And Gallagher will have larger bonuses.
And Gallagher, if he does well, will likely push for a new contract on even more.
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You can knock off one of Gray's years to make it apples with apples.

But if they do well, it's Gray who would actually see higher wage inflation.

Either way though, you're right. Gallagher was more expensive - and I think will add more to the first team. Better player right now.
 
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