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Player Archie Gray

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Shadydan said:
3 man midfield ideally for the best balance is a 6/8/10

6 -Passing 6
8- Gray/Bergvall/Sarr/Gallagher
10 -Maddison/Xavi

Neither of those 8's excel at attacking or defending, they are runners/ball carriers/box crashers albeit with different technical profiles.

Maybe Bergvall and Gray can grow into 6's when they mature a bit more but for now they are 8's
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I get the idea that you are pushing

Im just saying it’s a bit rigid and maybe based on tactico internet narratives more than reality

That narrative would dictate that Gray and Sarr shouldn’t work, but it does.

Players grow into roles in teams.

We need to sign a passing profile but that don’t mean that every midfield we ever put out needs to include this deep lying playmaker type
 
Timberwolf said:
Bergvall's a rough diamond. He's shown glimpses at being good/excellent at almost everything - he's a menace off the ball, capable of box crashing and scoring improvised finishes, good technically in tight areas, a powerful runner and strong dribbler, and also has a pretty wide range of passing.

The thing is, he's also raw and immature so makes mistakes and lacks positional discipline (which is why I think Frank never trusted him as a CM) and his passing game is inconsistent.

Gray is the far more mature player of the two right now but if Bergvall lives up to his potential and can refine his game, the sky really is the limit. He could be a proper monster if he stays fit and keeps improving.
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I completely agree and hopefully under poch he can turn him into the top player he can be. I personally think its very telling with Bergvall that he didnt come through a top academy in Europe, and that is shown in a lot of the tactical issues he has. Even when people were raving about him las season I actually think his tactical issues and inability to read defensively was a big part of defensive problems last season.

Yeah, he has the raw materials lets hope he kicks on because between the two of them they could form a truly world class midfield if both reach their potential
 
Richard Arlison said:
I get the idea that you are pushing

Im just saying it’s a bit rigid and maybe based on tactico internet narratives more than reality

That narrative would dictate that Gray and Sarr shouldn’t work, but it does.

Players grow into roles in teams.

We need to sign a passing profile but that don’t mean that every midfield we ever put out needs to include this deep lying playmaker type
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On paper if you’re putting those two in a 3 man midfield, who’s actually taking responsibility for progressing the ball and dictating play? Neither of them really excels in that area.

As I’ve said before Gray and Bergvall might eventually develop into a proper No. 6, but that’s a long-term solution not something that fixes the issue right now. If we’re specifically looking to bring in a deep lying passer providing Bentancur and Bissouma leave and we don't sign Palhinha on a perm ten suddenly you’re talking about having seven midfielders competing for three spots, which feels like overkill especially in the No. 8 roles.

Right now it just feels like square pegs in round holes...bringing Gallagher in only adds to the problem particularly when next season we won’t have midweek football and are likely looking at around 45 matches, there's not enough mins to keep everyone involved.
 
Shadydan said:
On paper if you’re putting those two in a 3 man midfield, who’s actually taking responsibility for progressing the ball and dictating play? Neither of them really excels in that area.

As I’ve said before Gray and Bergvall might eventually develop into a proper No. 6, but that’s a long-term solution not something that fixes the issue right now. If we’re specifically looking to bring in a deep lying passer providing Bentancur and Bissouma leave and we don't sign Palhinha on a perm ten suddenly you’re talking about having seven midfielders competing for three spots, which feels like overkill especially in the No. 8 roles.

Right now it just feels like square pegs in round holes...bringing Gallagher in only adds to the problem particularly when next season we won’t have midweek football and are likely looking at around 45 matches, there's not enough mins to keep everyone involved.
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How did it work last night?
 
Shadydan said:
We played a 2 man midfield didn't we? I had Xavi and Tel playing behind RKM

I think either way even if you somehow fit those 2 together you still have 2 other 8's and 7 mids for 3 positions, shows you Gallagher wasn't even needed for depth when we are shoehorning players into positions.
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If we play 4-2-3-1 that’s the same double pivot

I think the premier league is so intense now we need to rethink depth otherwise we get this fucking injury crisis every year
 
Kaz Hirai said:
Yeah let's pray he develops better than winks who just didnt progress as we'd hoped .

He looked like a future superstar that night. 40 winks, The Sandman, the dream weaver, the endorsements were ready to go :harrysmile:
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It was the injury that did him in. After that, he looked half the player he could have been. The Winks-Sissoko double-pivot still gives me night sweats.
 
Richard Arlison said:
I get the idea that you are pushing

Im just saying it’s a bit rigid and maybe based on tactico internet narratives more than reality

That narrative would dictate that Gray and Sarr shouldn’t work, but it does.

Players grow into roles in teams.

We need to sign a passing profile but that don’t mean that every midfield we ever put out needs to include this deep lying playmaker type
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I agree I think it's easy for us to say that we struggle at the moment due to our lack of ball progression in the 6 position, but that's a cumulative issue with what is surrounding that position on the pitch and also a system issue.

It wasn't long ago that our best team of recent history had a midfield of Wanyama, Dembele and Dele - none of whom you would describe as a deep passing player. The system was aggressive and with some bravery and safe first touch football progressed the ball without needing a dedicated passing 6.
 
BAE32 said:
I agree I think it's easy for us to say that we struggle at the moment due to our lack of ball progression in the 6 position, but that's a cumulative issue with what is surrounding that position on the pitch and also a system issue.

It wasn't long ago that our best team of recent history had a midfield of Wanyama, Dembele and Dele - none of whom you would describe as a deep passing player. The system was aggressive and with some bravery and safe first touch football progressed the ball without needing a dedicated passing 6.
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Exactly

Players grow into roles within teams. Gravenberch wasn’t a “6” when he arrived at Liverpool. Neither was Rodri when City signed him.

The team is more important than the profile fit.
Shadydan said:
Regarless selling them and then adding 1 or 2 pass first mids means you have 7/8 players for 3 roles in midfield in a 45 match season, that isn't sustainable at all.
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Disagree. We had that many this season and spent most of the season in an injury crisis
 
Richard Arlison said:
Exactly

Players grow into roles within teams. Gravenberch wasn’t a “6” when he arrived at Liverpool. Neither was Rodri when City signed him.

The team is more important than the profile fit.

Disagree. We had that many this season and spent most of the season in an injury crisis
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And we've never been short of midfielders through the injury crisis.

conversely we've have been short of a passing 6 for a while and had we signed a player of that profile instead of a Gallagher then the squad balance would have been much better and we wouldn't be having this conversation, I just don't know what gallagher brings depth wise that the other 8's don't.
 
Just noticed he has not played any international games this season and only played 2 games last summer for the U21s in the Euros. Group game he started and played 60 mins and the SF a couple of minutes as a sub.
I really think he could do with a rest. Are there U21 games in the upcoming inter break?
 
Shadydan said:
And we've never been short of midfielders through the injury crisis.

conversely we've have been short of a passing 6 for a while and had we signed a player of that profile instead of a Gallagher then the squad balance would have been much better and we wouldn't be having this conversation, I just don't know what gallagher brings depth wise that the other 8's don't.
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Sure we have. Bissouma is only playing again because literally nobody else was fit and Gray was needed at FB
 
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