Combatting racism in football

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Smoked Salmon

Finest human being of all time
You're right, you are going to get shit for that! :dembelewtf:

Segregating fans based on ethnicity is neither a short or long term solution. By putting them all in Block 28, you're giving the racist fans exactly what they want. How would they ever get them back into other areas of the stadium again? How would that procedure even work...do they have to say they're black when buying a ticket therefore being allocated a particular seat?

Do you honestly think the fans in segregated areas wouldn't get singled out by chants from other areas of the stadium? We may as well cage them and remove any toilet facilities from their area as well.

You're taking a million steps back in time if you're advocating this, even for one game.

Here's a couple of solutions - if fans of all ethnicities, religions and races cannot get along, then fans should be banned from that club until they can, whether it be a week, a month or a year. On top of that, deduct points. As soon as fans can't watch their beloved club, and they directly affect their league position, I'm sure they'll stop.
I never said I was advocating it. I said that I don't think the motivation for the suggestion was meant to be racist and that as a short term measure it might prevent racist attacks, but that it was open to abuse by institutionalised racism itself and therefore not a realistic idea. I also made it clear twice in the post that it would apply to black supporters and then rest of their party (whatever the ethnicity), so it wouldn't be pure ethnic segregation. I'd go further and say that with such an idea black supporters could still sit in the other parts of the stadium of they wanted to take the risk, but that this would act as a safety zone, if you will. I am just trying to look at it beyond the automatic knee-jerk reaction that some will succumb to. I am not advocating pure, choice-less racial segregation at all.
 
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Smoked Salmon

Finest human being of all time
Isn't that what's happening now? I don't think that's what this bloke is suggesting.
I don't mean mixed crowds. I mean that as a black supporter you'd register for the safety zone and give names and details of those in your party. That way it wouldn't be a case of keeping people apart "because they're black", rather giving black supporters a safety zone in the short term while proper measures are put into place to make sure they will not be abused in the rest of the stadium. If you didn't want to sit in the safety zone (as a black supporter) then you take the risk in the main stadium in spite of the insufficient security measures.
 
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Smoked Salmon

Finest human being of all time
I don't mean mixed crowds. I mean that as a black supporter you'd register for the safety zone and give names and details of those in your party. That way it wouldn't be a case of keeping people apart "because they're black", rather giving black supporters a safety zone in the short term while proper measures are put into place to make sure they will not be abused in the rest of the stadium. If you didn't want to sit in the safety zone (as a black supporter) then you take the risk in the main stadium in spite of the insufficient security measures.
In essence, what I am suggesting is a short term refuge zone.
 
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Belgian Spur

Supporter
I don't mean mixed crowds. I mean that as a black supporter you'd register for the safety zone and give names and details of those in your party. That way it wouldn't be a case of keeping people apart "because they're black", rather giving black supporters a safety zone in the short term while proper measures are put into place to make sure they will not be abused in the rest of the stadium. If you didn't want to sit in the safety zone (as a black supporter) then you take the risk in the main stadium in spite of the insufficient security measures.
I understand your point and i do agree that the president probably didnt even realise how inherently racist his idea was due to being part of a social structure and culture that has deep rooted racism. He probably thought, seperating them would make it safer, without realising what he was actually advocating.

The thing is however that these safe zones would become targets for the other fans as they would create subgroups in the ground, creating a very visible identity for both groups with all the point scoring and group dynamics linked to those phenomena, making the social dynamics of mistrust between groups even more apparent and the security in the safe zones would probably only serve to keep the attackers out. The fact of creating subgroups would then become even more dangerous outside the grounds where the security is absent, its all a bit lords of the flies from there on.

I'm afraid it would only make the situation of us vs the others worse and a lot more visible too. Add to that the fact that there would be registration for the parties that went to the safe zone, making them even easier to identify or single out (databases are only as safe as the users that create them) for extremist movements in the society. You'd essentially create a hit list for right wing pigs.
 
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Joe Clash

Closed Account
I understand your point and i do agree that the president probably didnt even realise how inherently racist his idea was due to being part of a social structure and culture that has deep rooted racism. He probably thought, seperating them would make it safer, without realising what he was actually advocating.

The thing is however that these safe zones would become targets for the other fans as they would create subgroups in the ground, creating a very visible identity for both groups with all the point scoring and group dynamics linked to those phenomena, making the social dynamics of mistrust between groups even more apparent and the security in the safe zones would probably only serve to keep the attackers out. The fact of creating subgroups would then become even more dangerous outside the grounds where the security is absent, its all a bit lords of the flies from there on.

I'm afraid it would only make the situation of us vs the others worse and a lot more visible too. Add to that the fact that there would be registration for the parties that went to the safe zone, making them even easier to identify or single out (databases are only as safe as the users that create them) for extremist movements in the society. You'd essentially create a hit list for right wing pigs.
Indeed. I know Sal's post was well meant, but these are the realities.
 
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Joe Clash

Closed Account
If a club can't guarantee the safety of supporters inside the ground, they should be banned from European football. It's that simple.
 
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Millbanks

Spurs - Champions Cup of Europe Winners 2011
giving black supporters a safety zone
What makes it safe? What stops any old racist white man getting a ticket in the 'safety zone'? Are they going to police it properly? Why not just police all stands properly if that works?

I'm not looking for an argument, and for sure none of us have the solution, but I don't see how simply plonking all the black guys together with their black/white friends will help them and the racist arseholes in the rest of the stadium have a nice day out.

They need to leave the stadium together. They need to have pre-match drinks together. They need to live in the city together. I don't think segregating them for 90 minutes a week is going to keep them safe.
 
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*Banned from football altogether. Or at least from playing in front of fans.
I was thinking along these lines too. Make them play behind closed doors until they sort their act out.

But that penalises the black fans as well as the racist cunts & possibly stigmatises them further as being "responsible". Seems a bit unfair on people of whatever colour who just want to go & cheer their team on to go that route. The club should weed out the fucking lot of them in a zero tolerance clampdown & issue them all with lifetime bans.

Difficult to Police with fake ID's being available etc but it's a start. Segregation is a seriously dangerous & dirty path to go down.
 
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What concerns me is the hypocrisy shown by the governing bodies when dealing with these blatant cases of racism.
For example Article14 of UEFA's disciplinary regs. specifies a fine of only €50k (for a second offence!!!!!!) with the worst punishment being disqualification from the tournament.
Then of course there's the ultimate deterrent...the 'Say No To Racism' campaign.
I have some suggestions.......
Fine for the first offence: €500k member association & €500k club.
Second offence: €1,000,000 member association & club banned for 2 seasons from UEFA competitions.
Third offence: 5 year ban of member association & clubs from UEFA competitions.
Get fackin' real UEFA.
 
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Smoked Salmon

Finest human being of all time
What makes it safe? What stops any old racist white man getting a ticket in the 'safety zone'? Are they going to police it properly? Why not just police all stands properly if that works?

I'm not looking for an argument, and for sure none of us have the solution, but I don't see how simply plonking all the black guys together with their black/white friends will help them and the racist arseholes in the rest of the stadium have a nice day out.

They need to leave the stadium together. They need to have pre-match drinks together. They need to live in the city together. I don't think segregating them for 90 minutes a week is going to keep them safe.
I agree with all that in the sense that proper policing and security is what is needed. That's why I said only as a temporary measure until the security issue has been gotten to grips with....and I think it's a problem that goes beyond just individual clubs and is presently a shambles. The safety zone would be an interim measure while the security measure are put in place, whether that means hiring more staff, new training, new equipment, CCTV or whatever else. That's not going to happen at the flip of a switch, so the safety zone would be an option for targeted fans while the protection measures aren't in place.

As for playing behind closed doors, I think it punishes the good fans and still doesn't really get to grips with what happens once the terraces are open again. That said, I do accept that the financial drain it would cause might prompt clubs to act more quickly.
 
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