Dele

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Your comment has nothing to do with the preceding posts, 'pal'.


We just bury the memory of players most of us were deeply fond of after a few years away from the club? .....Fuck that.
No but be realistic. He was a sensational player when dovetailing with Kane. Southgate done him in (as he was a truly woeful midfielder) and he never recovered. It’s been years since he was a PL player
 
If you are citing Modic an Berbatov in the context I did you wouldn't mention Bale, so it's clear you did not understand the point I was making. As for the world class debate its not a particularly compelling one for me. Bowen of West Ham is a fantastic player his relationship or rank to other players in a world eleven not withstanding.

The point was football isn't all about running at pace as the late Stan Bowls would attest. Dele Alli at his best was a fantastic player combative possessed of wonderful timing capable of deft trickry and audacious finishing. He was head and shoulders above many of his contemporaries. And as they are the one percent playing elite men's football they themselves are outstanding. He was also limited and poorly coached ...all these things can be true. We can also have the my list of world class players chat too if you like. 👍
Carrick was also world class and I bet you any money Pep would choose him over those three wankers - Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes
 
Fair points, I wasn't criticising your opinion, just sharing my perspective. I understood your point, I was referring to 'posts' plural, i.e. others had mentioned Bale.

Yeah, go on. I genuinely am curious about people views on this. I'm tempted to set up a poll, but I'd want to know the list of players beforehand so we don't waste the first wave of voters. Can't please everyone, obvs, but would be interesting to see how it went.
Wow world class is a funny one. For example Dimitar Berbatov had periods of world class form in a career that in its totality for me was a bit short of that level. So was he overall a world class player...exactly like Rafa Van der Vart I'd say no he wasn't. Luka Modric, Gareth Bale, Kylian Mpabbe, Muhammad Salah,Harry Kane, Manuel Nuer, Lionel Messi, Christiano Ronaldo. Last ten years all of these names unarguably world class for me. Right now still playing top level...that's a very very small pool of footballers and it's mostly French.
 
The only players we have had in recent years I’d call world class would be Modric, Bale and Kane.

Ledley could have been world class but for injury. It’s a term that gets thrown around too much. Like ‘genius’ I hear that word thrown about far too lightly as well.
 
The only players we have had in recent years I’d call world class would be Modric, Bale and Kane.

Ledley could have been world class but for injury. It’s a term that gets thrown around too much. Like ‘genius’ I hear that word thrown about far too lightly as well.
You missed some...Walker was and still is WC. Dembele had as part of his skillset some WC abilities. That said, I have a hard time agreeing with Kane being WC because he doesn't have anything that is unstoppable. Each of the others had 'unstoppable' qualities such that they could dictate a match...thus WC.

Dele was never WC, if someone has suggested that.
 
Fair points, I wasn't criticising your opinion, just sharing my perspective. I understood your point, I was referring to 'posts' plural, i.e. others had mentioned Bale.

Yeah, go on. I genuinely am curious about people views on this. I'm tempted to set up a poll, but I'd want to know the list of players beforehand so we don't waste the first wave of voters. Can't please everyone, obvs, but would be interesting to see how it went.

From just my time supporting Spurs:

Kane, Bale, Modric, Walker, Defoe, Berbatov, RVdV, Verts, Toby, King, Son, Dembele, Lloris, Vicario, Romero,

You think Defoe was world class? :pochshock2:
 
Gave us many fantastic moments at his peak. Great goals. An eye for an assist. A bit of a bastard. Played with a huge smile.

I died on the “he’s still got it - just give him time” hill many times.

I hope he does get back to a semblance of what he was. Or at least hope he’s in a positive place.
 
The only players we have had in recent years I’d call world class would be Modric, Bale and Kane.

Ledley could have been world class but for injury. It’s a term that gets thrown around too much. Like ‘genius’ I hear that word thrown about far too lightly as well.
My definition is being one of the better players in any of the world's best teams on a regular basis. i.e. teams that are in or around the final of the CL/WC/Euros regularly. It's a bit more flexible that the 'World XI', which is far too limiting and like asking someone what their favourite film is.
 
You missed some...Walker was and still is WC. Dembele had as part of his skillset some WC abilities. That said, I have a hard time agreeing with Kane being WC because he doesn't have anything that is unstoppable. Each of the others had 'unstoppable' qualities such that they could dictate a match...thus WC.

Dele was never WC, if someone has suggested that.

Kane is pretty much the dictionary definition of world class. He starts up-front for any team in the world, nobody doesn’t find a place for him. He absolutely has unstoppable qualities, he showed that last week with two goals from nothing at all. Instinctive finisher who regularly adds lots of goals from nothing to his team.

I dunno what constitutes ‘unstoppable’ if not beautiful outside the box finishes, half volleys in to the corner, perfectly placed scarily good cross-field passes, goals from the halfway line etc. He’s not physical if that’s the definition but he has plenty in his locker that if he gets right a defender can do nothing about.

Dele had magic in his locker but his inability to do a lot of the stuff a midfielder needs to do meant he was effective only in a very niche second striker role. And a team had to sacrifice in order to accommodate that.

There were times I thought he flirted with it because yes he was a moments player, but the moments were glorious and sexy as hell. Little flicks and chips and moments of sheer audacity.

I don’t think (apart from maybe one season?) he was ever consistently creative enough to be up there with the other advanced midfielders and that, combined with not being good at other functional midfield stuff, meant never world class. Again he flirted with it (some lovely through balls at times) but never quite became a player who knitted things together rather than only applying a finishing touch.*

*Kane on the other hand does it all. He can dictate and knit play and finish things off. Yeah he can be defended against (if the other team plan their entire game around his ability and dedicate a player to stopping him!) but he has so many strings to his bow, including game intelligence when it comes to holding the ball up & drawing fouls.
 
He absolutely has unstoppable qualities
iu

but he has plenty in his locker that if he gets right a defender can do nothing about
Not a single one...can't beat a man off the dribble, can do it physically, can do it for pace, etc etc etc. We've gone over this a thousand times...he does not now and has not ever had one of these qualities. that's fine as it doesn't make you a shitty player...but it does make you imminently stoppable. No one could take the ball off Dembele, Walker has/had pace, stamina, physicality that no winger could match; Bale had power and pace with a brilliant left foot that no FB in the world could defend as 1 of those would always gain an edge.

How is this difficult to understand? All of HK's qualities can be defended by even an average PL defender. What makes him hte player that he is is that he has all of the requisite qualities in some decent measure but NONE in abundance. This should not be a controversial take! but that makes a player dependent on service which you've constantly been whining about lately when he's not bagged one.

Dele had magic in his locker but his inability to do a lot of the stuff a midfielder needs to do meant he was effective only in a very niche second striker role. And a team had to sacrifice in order to accommodate that.
garbage player that cherry picked some shiny objects and folks lost their minds and perspective. When he was shit they always thought he had more to his game than he did. Horrible footballer.

Little flicks and chips and moments of sheer audacity.
Don't forget the nutmegs!!!! Bet you have a few posters of those.

Again he flirted with it
Not to keen observers of play and not shiny objects.

*Kane on the other hand does it all. He can dictate and knit play and finish things off. Yeah he can be defended against (if the other team plan their entire game around his ability and dedicate a player to stopping him!) but he has so many strings to his bow, including game intelligence when it comes to holding the ball up & drawing fouls.
Amazing that a player with this legendary skillset never seemed to come up big in the big games....I'm sure VVD STILL has nightmares of facing him in the CL final!!!!

todd: "Kane starts, we lose"...Kane started, we lost! But his "game intelligence" was on glaring display...when he was picking himself up off the ground after another VVD mauling.
 
iu


Not a single one...can't beat a man off the dribble, can do it physically, can do it for pace, etc etc etc. We've gone over this a thousand times...he does not now and has not ever had one of these qualities. that's fine as it doesn't make you a shitty player...but it does make you imminently stoppable. No one could take the ball off Dembele, Walker has/had pace, stamina, physicality that no winger could match; Bale had power and pace with a brilliant left foot that no FB in the world could defend as 1 of those would always gain an edge.

How is this difficult to understand? All of HK's qualities can be defended by even an average PL defender. What makes him hte player that he is is that he has all of the requisite qualities in some decent measure but NONE in abundance. This should not be a controversial take! but that makes a player dependent on service which you've constantly been whining about lately when he's not bagged one.


garbage player that cherry picked some shiny objects and folks lost their minds and perspective. When he was shit they always thought he had more to his game than he did. Horrible footballer.


Don't forget the nutmegs!!!! Bet you have a few posters of those.


Not to keen observers of play and not shiny objects.


Amazing that a player with this legendary skillset never seemed to come up big in the big games....I'm sure VVD STILL has nightmares of facing him in the CL final!!!!

todd: "Kane starts, we lose"...Kane started, we lost! But his "game intelligence" was on glaring display...when he was picking himself up off the ground after another VVD mauling.

You’re acting like the only unstoppable qualities are physical. All your examples are physical!

Kane has unstoppable technical qualities. And if average defenders could stop them he wouldn’t be well over xG every season providing goals that don’t happen otherwise, or creating more than midfielders whilst being a striker. He can deliver pinpoint accuracy passes and as a defender whenever he’s allowed to shoot it’s a heart in mouth moment because his finishing in and around the box is scary good.

I prefer players who aren’t ALL about so called shiny objects (and Dele was very much mostly about those moments) but they were very shiny. And they won big games. Teammates who didn’t have the ability to do what he did had to carry the load a bit more but it worked and we were a brilliant team with him and Kane working off each other.

Kane wasn’t fit for the CL final. At all. You need to give the Jonathan Liew article another read because he grasps this player perfectly. He’s a stunningly good footballer who has been unerringly unlucky with the moments he’s been provided to take the next step. The only time he’s really had personal responsibility was the France penalty miss.
 
Kane wasn’t fit for the CL final.
then his game intelligence should have told him to sit down.

You’re acting like the only unstoppable qualities are physical. All your examples are physical!
Football is an athletic endeavor...no matter what you'd like to consider of the non-physical things, they cannot be implemented without the physical FFS!

Kane has unstoppable technical qualities.
He really doesn't...without the time and space being made for him.

The physical limited Dele as well because he was a shit all around footballer...so whatever "magic" you think he had (he didn't) it couldn't be realized consistently becuase he didn't have the physical tools to impose it on the fucking game!!!!! This is easy!
 
He really doesn't...without the time and space being made for him.

Lol again. Go watch the goals that happened literally last week. One is where he’s surrounded in the box and wins the game in the dying minutes with zero space or time, just a bit of instinctive, incredible finishing.

Kane can be impossible to defend against. So could Dele, actually. He just didn’t do the regular stuff well enough consistently to be placed in that world class zone.
 
☝️ Kane was fit for the Champions League final. Poch had him mark VVD to stop Liverpool coming out through him. It was a tactical decision. This has been confirmed by David Pleat ( yes I know, but he’s closer to the club than any of us ).
 
☝️ Kane was fit for the Champions League final. Poch had him mark VVD to stop Liverpool coming out through him. It was a tactical decision. This has been confirmed by David Pleat ( yes I know, but he’s closer to the club than any of us ).

He wasn’t match fit. As we are seeing with Bentacour and Maddison you don’t come back in and hit the ground running.
Playing in the heat of Spain wouldn’t have helped.

Not heard that before what pleat says. Sounds like the stupidest plan ever.
And going one nil down and Liverpool more than happy to just sit back probably meant it was proven obsolete in the second minute.

But I wonder if Harry knows you only mark players when you’re out of possession.
 
He wasn’t match fit. As we are seeing with Bentacour and Maddison you don’t come back in and hit the ground running.
Playing in the heat of Spain wouldn’t have helped.

Not heard that before what pleat says. Sounds like the stupidest plan ever.
And going one nil down and Liverpool more than happy to just sit back probably meant it was proven obsolete in the second minute.

But I wonder if Harry knows you only mark players when you’re out of possession.
☝️ what about Son as wingback ?
 
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