Management ENIC

[LeParisien]

But that isn’t the whole story is it?

It clearly shows we were a midtable club for the first decade until ENIC lifted us out of that into a club regularly playing in Europe which has not been the norm in our history.

Not been the norm isn’t exactly correct. It is arguably easier now (PL era) to gain a European place the before the EPL. And yet we managed it 14 times.

You can pull up stats to make any point. Judge it with your eyes I.E what has been played on the pitch in the last few years. Isn’t good is it?

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See my reply to bonaspur23 .

But yes - I agree the football has been terrible post Poch. I think everyone is in agreement with that. I also blame Levy for that. I’m capable of nuanced thinking on this.

I’d just like the other side to also accept the facts which are that Levy saw significant, sustained improved performance in the league.

 

[Deuterz]

Div = perfectly ok, "a playful jibe"

Using cancer = perfectly acceptable

Wishing death on another human being and his family = that's ok too

But apparently it's only one side that's insulting and deranged.

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Both sides are very insulting but the ENIC in side have a habit of whining about how insulting the out side are & how they’re much more reasonable.

Then two of you lot have been carded for disability related insults and a bunch of others just call people cunts or go on about how thick everyone who hates Levy is. Or talk down to them.

 

[LeParisien]

Both sides are very insulting but the ENIC in side have a habit of whining about how insulting the out side are & how they’re much more reasonable.

Then two of you lot have been carded for disability related insults and a bunch of others just call people cunts or go on about how thick everyone who hates Levy is. Or talk down to them.

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Shadydan is ENIC out. Whoops.

 

[Kosher Kid]

We have never competed with europes elite in the Champions League as consistently as we have done under ENIC. European competition has not been the norm in our history but it is now.

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This is a bent analogy and I suspect you know it.

The modern 'Champions League' format that Spurs have qualified for under ENIC has more in common with the UEFA Cup than the Champions Cup or European Cup as it was known as.

Only the Champions played in that knock out tournament. Not the 2nd, 3rd or 4th placed teams.

Spurs regularly competed in Europe through the Cup Winners Cup format and the U.E.F.A. Cup.

All of these competitions were knock out format over two legs. No group matches to generate revenue.

Spurs have followed the money under ENIC.

That is why the top 4 is prioritised over the FA Cup.

It's more lucrative to do this but the club's trophy count has taken a hit because of the club adopting these policies.

 

[Deuterz]

Shadydan is ENIC out. Whoops.

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No he isn’t. He’s a troll who only posts pro ENIC crap, he doesn’t really want them out at all.

He’s constantly on your side during these ‘’debates’’.

 

[Kosher Kid]

Both sides are very insulting but the ENIC in side have a habit of whining about how insulting the out side are & how they’re much more reasonable.

Then two of you lot have been carded for disability related insults and a bunch of others just call people cunts or go on about how thick everyone who hates Levy is. Or talk down to them.

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I like the cunt back and forth outbreaks tbh.

It's funny.

 

[LeParisien]

This is a bent analogy and I suspect you know it.

The modern 'Champions League' format that Spurs have qualified for under ENIC has more in common with the UEFA Cup than the Champions Cup or European Cup as it was known as.

Only the Champions played in that knock out tournament. Not the 2nd, 3rd or 4th placed teams.

Spurs regularly competed in Europe through the Cup Winners Cup format and the U.E.F.A. Cup.

All of these competitions were knock out format over two legs. No group matches to generate revenue.

Spurs have followed the money under ENIC.

That is why the top 4 is prioritised over the FA Cup.

It's more lucrative to do this but the club's trophy count has taken a hit because of the club adopting these policies.

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See my responses to bonaspur23 and Dixiefish61 addressing this point.

I agree that it’s hard to make historical comparisons. I did so taking the data at face value but context matters. However if context matters then it matters to ALL our performance including FA cup wins. It is almost too perfect that our last FA cup win was 2 months before the start of the PL era. The PL had a fairly big impact on the English game…

 

[Bubs]

He’s paid less than Fraser Forster or Davinson Sanchez. I think he’s having more impact than either.

Also the data excludes Ferran Soriano at City. Do we think he might be earning more through legal or illegal channels?

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Is Ferran Soriano known for having criminal tendencies / activities?

 

[Zomb]

As an uncle to two severely disabled children I don't find it a playful jibe, but you keep defending the indefensible.

Wanker.

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And what offends you more? Div (in jest) as opposed to that awful GIF?

 

[Zomb]

Is Ferran Soriano known for having criminal tendencies / activities?

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No but Man City have used back door channels to pay staff previously (Mancini)

 

[LeParisien]

Is Ferran Soriano known for having criminal tendencies / activities?

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Manchester City’s charges brought by the PL (over 100 of them) include that they understated their expenditures on salaries by paying employees extravagant sums for tangential services (eg Mancini for consulting).

 

[Kosher Kid]

See my responses to bonaspur23 and Dixiefish61 addressing this point.

I agree that it’s hard to make historical comparisons. I did so taking the data at face value but context matters. However if context matters then it matters to ALL our performance including FA cup wins. It is almost too perfect that our last FA cup win was 2 months before the start of the PL era. The PL had a fairly impact on the English game…

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Where I think you are wrong is that Spurs always prioritised cup competitions pre ENIC. We were just shit during the Sugar regime.

Winning a domestic or European cup qualified you for the next seasons European competitions.

The F.A. Cup got you Cup Winners Cup football.

The League Cup got you UEFA Cup football.

The ticket revenue and TV money from the extra cup matches was what Spurs chased in the 70's, 80's and 90's from a commercial point of view.

ENIC and Levy clearly took a different approach when they took over from Sugar who quite frankly hadn't got a clue how to run Spurs or any football club.

To be fair to them they never even claimed to be interested in winning cups.

They stated publicly their aim was to increase the WHL capacity to at least 44,000 and qualify regularly for the Champions League.

These were their aims and objectives.

It's all on the record.

 

[LeParisien]

Where I think you are wrong is that Spurs always prioritised cup competitions pre ENIC. We were just shit during the Sugar regime.

Winning a domestic or European cup qualified you for the next seasons European competitions.

The F.A. Cup got you Cup Winners Cup football.

The League Cup got you UEFA Cup football.

The ticket revenue and TV money from the extra cup matches was what Spurs chased in the 70's, 80's and 90's from a commercial point of view.

ENIC and Levy clearly took a different approach when they took over from Sugar who quite frankly hadn't got a clue how to run Spurs or any football club.

To be fair to them they never even claimed to be interested in winning cups.

They stated publicly their aim was to increase the WHL capacity to at least 44,000 and qualify regularly for the Champions League.

These were their aims and objectives.

It's all on the record.

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To say those were their aims does not mean that those were their only aims. It would be disingenuous to say that.

I think I clearly stated that performance in the FA cup is the one area that you can say ENIC look bad compared to our historical performance. However you have to be clear that this trend started before ENIC - we have not done well in the FA cup since the start of the PL era. That is factual.

If fans are saying they would like to make the FA cup a higher priority then that is fair and reasonable and perhaps a critique of our current focus. Someone will need to tell the managers that losing to lower league opposition or relegation threatened teams is not acceptable for a club of our size and ambition.

 

[Kosher Kid]

1. To say those were their aims does not mean that those were their only aims. It would be disingenuous to say that.

I think I clearly stated that performance in the FA cup is the one area that you can say ENIC look bad compared to our historical performance. 2. However you have to be clear that this trend started before ENIC - we have not done well in the FA cup since the start of the PL era. That is factual.

If fans are saying they would like to make the FA cup a higher priority then that is fair and reasonable and perhaps a critique of our current focus. Someone will need to tell the managers that losing to lower league opposition or relegation threatened teams is not acceptable for a club of our size and ambition.

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1. An increased WHL capacity of 44,000 and regular Champions League qualification were 100% the only aims and objectives that ENIC have ever stated publicly to the best of my knowledge.

If that is not the case show me any quotes where they have stated publicly they aim to win trophies and have clear, time framed, targets in place.

The quote above was the famous 5 year plan that ENIC arrived with. It took 10 years to secure a Champions League qualification under ENIC and 18 years to increase the WHL capacity to at least 44,000.

Say it isn't so.

disingenuous my arse.


2. "We were shit under Sugar" covers the period you refer to.

 

[Archie]

Please don’t bring cancer into this. Just stick to facts instead of insults.

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Hes talking about Levy being the cancer we want removed from the club. Stop trying to turn it into something else. Your problem and the problem the rest of the defenders of the bald genius is your running out of places to go and attempting to change the subject and paint an enic outer as some kind of scumbag just wont wash.

We all know if the club was on the verge of going out of business you would still be on the hill defending levy.

 

[LeParisien]

1. An increased WHL capacity of 44,000 and regular Champions League qualification were 100% the only stated aims and objectives that ENIC have ever stated publicly to the best of my knowledge.

If that is not the case show me any quotes where they have stated publicly they aim to win trophies and have clear, time framed, targets in place.

The quote above was the famous 5 year plan that ENIC arrived with. It took 10 years to secure a Champions League qualification under ENIC and 18 years to increase the WHL capacity to at least 44,000.

Say it isn't so.

disingenuous my arse.


2. "We were shit under Sugar" covers the period you refer to.

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It’s disingenuous to say ENIC have only ever had two objectives in 22 years. Ignorance does not imply absence.

We were shit under sugar. But that doesn’t mean you get to ignore any other relevant contextual factors. On your analysis, the changes that occurred in the game with the formation of the PL and the entrance of state-backed owners are entirely irrelevant to the level of competition in the league. Both have been absolutely massive.

 

[Nuts]

Div = perfectly ok, "a playful jibe"

Using cancer = perfectly acceptable

Wishing death on another human being and his family = that's ok too

But apparently it's only one side that's insulting and deranged.

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Again, he was likening Levy's effect on the club to a tumour causing further illness. There is a big difference between that and directly calling someone a 'div' or posting that shit Shady did the other day.

 

[Cranston]

Everyone. Stop being melts.

My sister was Down Syndrome and passed away two years ago. My third son has severe SEN and has just moved schools.

No one is actually offended by this stuff.

 

[LeParisien]

Hes talking about Levy being the cancer we want removed from the club. Stop trying to turn it into something else. Your problem and the problem the rest of the defenders of the bald genius is your running out of places to go and attempting to change the subject and paint an enic outer as some kind of scumbag just wont wash.

We all know if the club was on the verge of going out of business you would still be on the hill defending levy.

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Let’s look back three pages and see how many posts I’ve spent dealing with facts about our club. Now let’s do the same for you.

Seems like it’s you that’s hiding behind drama.

 

[ILSpur]

Overall I think that ENIC and Levy have been very positive for the club since they took over. With other owners who weren’t anywhere near as astute we could have been left behind years ago in terms of development.

I also think they’ve reached their limit and they lack the will and/or knowledge to continue an upward trajectory. It seems like the only thing that will allow them to act how they want and succeed are actually rigorous financial rules or the super league.

Respecting the good things they have done but realizing their limitations aren‘t conflicting ideas.