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Management ENIC

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ENIC In or ENIC Out

  • Total voters
    209
LeParisien said:
Every club should have to be self-sufficient.
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How an earth is that going to increase competition in football? That was the old model that saw the same handful of clubs dominate their domestic leagues and hoover up all the CL revenue year after year.

Allowing states with infinite resources to own football clubs isn't ideal (especially morally dubious ones), but Football is probably more equitable now than it's been for decades.

If you make self sufficiency a hard and fast requirement, then every provincial club may as well pack up. If you want completely fair competition the whole game needs restructuring and converting to something akin to US sports, where resources are far more equitably shared amongst the whole league.

Until that, allowing some degree of "financially safe" owner investment is the only way to avoid the monopoly the old money (G14 type) clubs used to have (and in some cases, still do) over the rest of Europe.
 
SpiderSpurs said:
He'd earn more from a day tripper than a ST holder in a seat though.

Like I said earlier...Not a lot they can do with the march/protest outside, however, the sit in is a different story I think.
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Demand by day trippers isn't enough. Season tickets were invented for a reason - it's the most secure and profitable way of filling a stadium. Otherwise you get boom and bust.

How long do you think the sit in will last? Can't see it being impactful. Paying a handful of stewards to stay over isn't going to get anyone's attention, and they'll be shouting/singing to an empty stadium.

The only thing that is ever going to rate attention is an organized boycott or (early doors) walkout. Supporters don't want to do it because they don't want to buy a ticket they don't use. Understandable, but nothing is going to happen without sacrifice. I know people want to be able to sing them out of the club but that's just delusional.
 
bus-conductor said:
How an earth is that going to increase competition in football? That was the old model that saw the same handful of clubs dominate their domestic leagues and hoover up all the CL revenue year after year.

Allowing states with infinite resources to own football clubs isn't ideal (especially morally dubious ones), but Football is probably more equitable now than it's been for decades.

If you make self sufficiency a hard and fast requirement, then every provincial club may as well pack up. If you want completely fair competition the whole game needs restructuring and converting to something akin to US sports, where resources are far more equitably shared amongst the whole league.

Until that, allowing some degree of "financially safe" owner investment is the only way to avoid the monopoly the old money (G14 type) clubs used to have (and in some cases, still do) over the rest of Europe.
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For the past 25 years, only 7 teams have finished in the top 3. (Big 6 and Leicester).


For the 25 years before that there were 20 different teams in the top 3:
United, Woolwich, Liverpool, Leeds, Chelsea, Newcastle, Blackburn, Villa, Nottingham Forest, Norwich, Spurs, Sheffield Wednesday, Palace, Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Watford, Ipswich, West Brom, QPR.

Your chance of competing near the top and going on an extended cup run was much higher in the past before wealth concentrated at the top. Opportunity has shrunk over the past generation compared to the one before.

It’s astonishing to me that people still debate the fact that greater wealth tends towards greater inequality and less opportunity. It is now harder for good sporting decisions and luck to make a difference because it has to overcome vast differences in wealth.
 
Dark Shadow said:
Probably right BF. Reminds me of the story of Levy going to meet with the NFL and taking a shit on the boardroom table and coming away without the deal he wanted. Was it someone on here who posted it?
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Depressing isn’t it. If you don’t trust them at every turn then I don’t think you can go wrong. The only way they go is if someone comes in with an absolutely stupid bid above their valuation. ☹️
 
LeParisien said:
For the past 25 years, only 7 teams have finished in the top 3. (Big 6 and Leicester).


For the 25 years before that there were 20 different teams in the top 3:
United, Woolwich, Liverpool, Leeds, Chelsea, Newcastle, Blackburn, Villa, Nottingham Forest, Norwich, Spurs, Sheffield Wednesday, Palace, Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Watford, Ipswich, West Brom, QPR.

Your chance of competing near the top and going on an extended cup run was much higher in the past before wealth concentrated at the top. Opportunity has shrunk over the past generation compared to the one before.

It’s astonishing to me that people still debate the fact that greater wealth tends towards greater inequality and less opportunity. It is now harder for good sporting decisions and luck to make a difference because it has to overcome vast differences in wealth.
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Rubbish , the reason is the PL and CL came along with enormous riches . Spurs and Everton went skint at the wrong time and spent an eternity in the wilderness. Jack Walker bought an early league title for Blackburn but his family had no interest in continuing it.

Once you were regularly hitting top 4 it became very difficult to drop out as your income was so much greater than the others . Liverpool slipped up because of financial mismanagement by Hicks and Gillette , creating an opportunity. Woolwich because of getting rid of the odious David Dein and not getting rid of a past it Wenger . Without a couple of hiccups like that other teams would have struggled to muscle in , it’s how we got in then City came along . Leeds won a league title and silly bollocks Ridsdale bet the house on black and it came up Red .


The super league is a similar idea protect the biggest and richest clubs from being challenged by pesky newbies with money
 
LeParisien said:
The game is about glory is cool but it’s just a slogan.

Most people on this board will say the Poch years were the best or among the best years they can remember. Was there glory there?

Or were the Ramos years better because we won a league cup?

There is SO much more to supporting a team than winning things and most normal every day fans who aren’t internet weirdos can see that.
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I mean, we never hear Ramos for Graham's name being sung lol...... if it was about Glory these two would be modern-day legends of our club yet we have people on here bed wetting themselves for the return of a manager who was incapable of getting over the finish line.
 
FightingIllini said:
It's all flavors of the same idea.

But I just can't emphasize enough the extent to which the NFL franchise ideology means a world where there just aren't any underdogs and thereby just isn't any glory, not in the way football supporters are used to understanding it.

The size, stability and permanence of owner profits are the sole guiding light. It's awful.

So my biggest emphasis in these conversations is not so much that we as fans ought to support one style or faction of ownership over another or one set of financial regulations over another, it's that we as fans have a different and independent interest in all of this, and we should not forget that or be ashamed of advocating for it.
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Precisely -

Everyone has a different opinion of what glory is...

For the me the entire game has moved beyond being able to have the word glory attached to it for any achievement because of generally what you have to do to get there...
 
Ed Vanderlay said:
Rubbish , the reason is the PL and CL came along with enormous riches . Spurs and Everton went skint at the wrong time and spent an eternity in the wilderness. Jack Walker bought an early league title for Blackburn but his family had no interest in continuing it.

Once you were regularly hitting top 4 it became very difficult to drop out as your income was so much greater than the others . Liverpool slipped up because of financial mismanagement by Hicks and Gillette , creating an opportunity. Woolwich because of getting rid of the odious David Dein and not getting rid of a past it Wenger . Without a couple of hiccups like that other teams would have struggled to muscle in , it’s how we got in then City came along . Leeds won a league title and silly bollocks Ridsdale bet the house on black and it came up Red .


The super league is a similar idea protect the biggest and richest clubs from being challenged by pesky newbies with money
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Surely we got in because of good management..... if others got in because of bad?
 
dudu said:
Surely we got in because of good management..... if others got in because of bad?
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I think Levy does deserve some credit yes , along with the players and a couple of managers . There was a period where everyone was pulling in the same direction , seems a long time ago now though.

Let’s be honest though when he took over we were in a bit of a mess , but nothing compared to Villa and even Leicester who under new ownership achieved more in a much shorter time frame. Look where Marinakis has taken Forest from in a fraction of the time.

So yes some credit goes to Levy, but the facts are at least 3 smaller clubs from far far worse starting positions achieved as much in less time
Leicester fell away post the owners death
Villa are yet to consolidate the way we did under the Poch era
Forest have not even confirmed top 4 yet

But from where those 3 were , to where they got in the time they did it our progression was pedestrian.

I am not sure Forest or Villa will sustain it as long as we did under Poch, in fact I’m confident they will not . The Villa and Forest owners are smart cookies though
 
MemphisWill said:
Demand by day trippers isn't enough. Season tickets were invented for a reason - it's the most secure and profitable way of filling a stadium. Otherwise you get boom and bust.

How long do you think the sit in will last? Can't see it being impactful. Paying a handful of stewards to stay over isn't going to get anyone's attention, and they'll be shouting/singing to an empty stadium.

The only thing that is ever going to rate attention is an organized boycott or (early doors) walkout. Supporters don't want to do it because they don't want to buy a ticket they don't use. Understandable, but nothing is going to happen without sacrifice. I know people want to be able to sing them out of the club but that's just delusional.
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You think an empty stadium will make Levy take notice?

Let's say every ST holder doesn't attend a game, while the stadium will mostly be empty, Levy has already had the money, so what's the point?

ST sells on the exchange, chances are whoever picks it up will spend in the shop and on manky sausage rolls and warm pre filled pints - Levy makes more money, so what's the point?

The sit in might not make much impact, however, it's a start and is better than the 20 blokes that used to stand outside the club shop.

From small acorns...
 
MemphisWill said:
Demand by day trippers isn't enough. Season tickets were invented for a reason - it's the most secure and profitable way of filling a stadium. Otherwise you get boom and bust.

The only thing that is ever going to rate attention is an organized boycott or (early doors) walkout. Supporters don't want to do it because they don't want to buy a ticket they don't use. Understandable, but nothing is going to happen without sacrifice. I know people want to be able to sing them out of the club but that's just delusional.
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I don’t think you’re right about this. I’m a season ticket holder & in the ground I often get speaking to overseas visitors. To be clear I have no problem with that, I love that we have fans from all over, but the point I want to make is that they often tell me how much they’ve paid. Its mental, can be hundreds of pounds. The demand is huge.
But even if it wasnt, and lets say 20 000 season ticket holder didnt renew and the seats were left empty. ENIC wouldnt be encouraged to sell up, the loss of ticket sale income would pale into insignificance against selling their asset in a fire sale, instead they’d wait it out and look forward to less militant fans taking up the seats when performances improved.
Going to the games and chanting Enic out isnt going to work like magic, but it definitely not a waste of time, it’s got the media speaking about how badly Levy has been mis-managing the on pitch performance over a number of years, it is being heard by the club sponsors which could affect revenue and although everyone says Levy doesn’t care we remember how his wife (who knows him better than us) attempted to reassure him the other season when he was getting stick.
In good times he enjoys going to his super luxury lounge (it’s so much more than a private box) and entertaining his family, guests and business contacts. When everyone is chanting and holding him to account that experience is diminished. He may want to give the impression it doesn’t matter but it has to get him thinking about doing more to win a trophy.
 
SpiderSpurs said:
You think an empty stadium will make Levy take notice?

Let's say every ST holder doesn't attend a game, while the stadium will mostly be empty, Levy has already had the money, so what's the point?

ST sells on the exchange, chances are whoever picks it up will spend in the shop and on manky sausage rolls and warm pre filled pints - Levy makes more money, so what's the point?

The sit in might not make much impact, however, it's a start and is better than the 20 blokes that used to stand outside the club shop.

From small acorns...
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It’s about optics I think , a televised game with hardly anyone there would hurt him , obviously not financially but it would hurt his pride

It’s a huge ask for ST holders but I think what Memphis is implying is not to sell your ticket on , yup that’s a loss to the fan
 
MiddxSpur said:
I don’t think you’re right about this. I’m a season ticket holder & in the ground I often get speaking to overseas visitors. To be clear I have no problem with that, I love that we have fans from all over, but the point I want to make is that they often tell me how much they’ve paid. Its mental, can be hundreds of pounds. The demand is huge.
But even if it wasnt, and lets say 20 000 season ticket holder didnt renew and the seats were left empty. ENIC wouldnt be encouraged to sell up, the loss of ticket sale income would pale into insignificance against selling their asset in a fire sale, instead they’d wait it out and look forward to less militant fans taking up the seats when performances improved.
Going to the games and chanting Enic out isnt going to work like magic, but it definitely not a waste of time, it’s got the media speaking about how badly Levy has been mis-managing the on pitch performance over a number of years, it is being heard by the club sponsors which could affect revenue and although everyone says Levy doesn’t care we remember how his wife (who knows him better than us) attempted to reassure him the other season when he was getting stick.
In good times he enjoys going to his super luxury lounge (it’s so much more than a private box) and entertaining his family, guests and business contacts. When everyone is chanting and holding him to account that experience is diminished. He may want to give the impression it doesn’t matter but it has to get him thinking about doing more to win a trophy.
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Good post. I think you’re both right though.

He won’t be liking the poor coverage of him but it will be because he won’t understand why. We’ve heard numerous times that him and the board don’t understand the negativity they get, they think they are doing a good job.

The demand for season tickets won’t drop off, like you say, they’ll always be someone to take them. If they do go down it will only be by a few thousand maximum. Although fans on the whole are fickle, it was easy to get a ticket on the exchange under Conte, harder at the start under Ange and easy again now However the season ticket sales stay flat.
 

View: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNd1L9STY/




finish him video games GIF


King got to throw a pigskin 🏈
 
MemphisWill said:
Demand by day trippers isn't enough. Season tickets were invented for a reason - it's the most secure and profitable way of filling a stadium. Otherwise you get boom and bust.

How long do you think the sit in will last? Can't see it being impactful. Paying a handful of stewards to stay over isn't going to get anyone's attention, and they'll be shouting/singing to an empty stadium.

The only thing that is ever going to rate attention is an organized boycott or (early doors) walkout. Supporters don't want to do it because they don't want to buy a ticket they don't use. Understandable, but nothing is going to happen without sacrifice. I know people want to be able to sing them out of the club but that's just delusional.
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Yep - walkouts at 25 mins every home game until the end of the season should but won't happen.
Its the only way to bring enough attention to it and Levy would be squirming.
 
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