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Management ENIC

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ENIC In or ENIC Out

  • Total voters
    209
LeeMcl said:
Moyes / Dyche / Pulis all similar to Frank. I don’t know how he would be progressive at all. Brentford are not a benchmark for continued success. They are a benchmark for stability and low investment = decent returns. I guess that’s what we have become
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I think that's unfair on Frank. You say he's not progressive but look what he's build Brentford into, under tight financial constraints too.

Are you basically saying that because he's built Brentford into a stable mid table PL team, that's his level and he'll never improve a bigger team.

Take a look at the Brentford forum, they're devastated that he might leave, because they know full well that a huge part of their progression has been down to him.
 
FightingIllini said:
From his ascension to the chairmanship until the hiring of Paratici, Levy insisted on a level personal control over the recruitment operation that made a total mockery of anyone else having a "director of football" title, and which by the late 2010's was a laughable disgrace of a dinosaur operation, a decade behind the operational sophistication of any peer club not named United or Chelsea.

There have been improvements since then, starting with hiring Paratici who was allowed a never-before-seen degree of independence. It does seem like Levy has seen the light that the operation can't be under the personal control of a layperson chairman anymore in the modern game. But his role is definitely still too large and prominent in the organization.

It will always be difficult for someone with a public profile as large as his, and who has been synonymous with the day-to-day operation for so long not to always loom in the decision making. He ought to formally step down as chairman, but I ain't holding my breath for that.
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100%. There has been rumblings so you never know (setting down as chairman)
 
Teach said:
100%. There has been rumblings so you never know (setting down as chairman)
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I think the other 75% of the ownership has to ask when is time though. We've floundered since the stadium move and the time you could defend us as outperforming our wage bill consistently was a long time ago. I also think PSR and ESL didn't give us the outcomes that we wanted, so our strategy looks more like Sugar's than at any time previously

I'd also say that Levy wants to stay on and I wouldn't trust him to sell/part-sell it it meant giving up control. Which probably means he should be removed from control.
 
PerthPaul said:
I think that's unfair on Frank. You say he's not progressive but look what he's build Brentford into, under tight financial constraints too.

Are you basically saying that because he's built Brentford into a stable mid table PL team, that's his level and he'll never improve a bigger team.

Take a look at the Brentford forum, they're devastated that he might leave, because they know full well that a huge part of their progression has been down to him.
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Brentford and Tottenham Hotspur are levels apart in every aspect mate. What Brentford fans think of him has absolutely zero relevance to how he might perform at a club 10 x the size and 50 x the fanbase
 
glacierSpurs said:
We need another parade when he's gone. Let's see which is earlier, a next trophy or him fucking off.
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Just imagine the huge wave of euphoria and optimism sweeping across the fanbase. 25 years + of pent up pressurised restraint about to be released and explode...wow, what a party 🥳 🎉 👌

Just hope I'm lucky enough to see the day, and if so, my heart will go out to all those Spurs fans who've not been so lucky. 😢
 
Tottenham Massive said:
Brentford and Tottenham Hotspur are levels apart in every aspect mate. What Brentford fans think of him has absolutely zero relevance to how he might perform at a club 10 x the size and 50 x the fanbase
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Yeah I keep hearing this, but at some point in every managers career they've never managed at a big club.
Poch is an example of someone close to home who proved they can make the step up.
What we see from Frank is the opposite of what we saw from Ange, tactically prowess and flexibility, the ability to develop youth, and the ability to elevate the status of a club over a period of time.

Conte had managed at big clubs, Mourinho had managed at the biggest clubs, neither worked how was intended. Or let me rephrase, neither worked as the fanbase would have liked.

Every 'big' manager out there would be wise to Levy, he's sacked 15 managers in 2 decades, the recruitment team consistently signs mediocre players and if this forum is anything to go by, the fanbase will have the daggers out if there isn't almost instant success. Why would Inzaghi or Ancelotti want to sign up for that?

The Bees fans are upset because they saw a genuine opportunity to continue growth under Frank (if they could keep their players), and they admired his loyalty and respectful nature, attributes we really need at Spurs.
 
PerthPaul said:
I think that's unfair on Frank. You say he's not progressive but look what he's build Brentford into, under tight financial constraints too.

Are you basically saying that because he's built Brentford into a stable mid table PL team, that's his level and he'll never improve a bigger team.

Take a look at the Brentford forum, they're devastated that he might leave, because they know full well that a huge part of their progression has been down to him.
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I am not meaning to be disrespectful to Frank. He’s clearly a capable manager. As were / are the others I mentioned.

Here’s another one, Alan Curbishley. Did brilliant at Charlton. A smaller club, less resources, got the best out of what he had.

What would have made him credible as Tottenham manager any more then Frank ?

Again, I am not meaning to suggest Frank is bad, it’s a consideration of levels.

Finding a reasonable metric to measure him is hard. One could be points per game v Top 6, and here it works out to around 0.8 per game, with his record against Chelsea being the only above that @1.33ppg.
 
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Sir Archibald Crooks said:
Cant say i agree with that. Those 3 are percentage hoofball merchants, the last managers of a bygone era. Frank is a modern thinking tactical coach. It might not work, might be too much of a step up, might be undermined by a shit transfer window but its a decent appointment imo (would have preffered Glasner though).
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Agree all of this

Frank ticks a lot of relevant boxes, Glasner has the added benefit of having won Europa too. This one seems like a matter of timing. Frank seems ready for a move, he's been there 5+ seasons, Glasner prob not ready for a move just yet
 
Tottenham Massive said:
Brentford and Tottenham Hotspur are levels apart in every aspect mate. What Brentford fans think of him has absolutely zero relevance to how he might perform at a club 10 x the size and 50 x the fanbase
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How do you benchmark what makes a manger suitable for this job then? What are the relevant KPIs? Please don’t say “trophies” because we’ve seen that getting in a serial winner isn’t necessarily a good fit for this club with this owner.

If you look at the managers who have done best under Levy - Poch and Harry - they both were able to foster a strong bond with the players and fans, they were able to develop young players into some of the best in the league, they were able to manage up to Levy well for a significant period of time, and they both succeeded in building a strong culture in the dressing room.

Both had no experience of managing a “big club” prior to being here, and both certainly helped to make us a bigger club by taking us into the CL for the first time in Harry’s case, title challenges, consistent CL qualification and the final, and moving to the new stadium in Poch’s case.

Can Frank do a similar job? No idea. It’s a really hard place to manage under Levy’s current constraints. Maybe the trophy hoodoo being off our back will make it a bit easier, maybe the shadow of Ange will make it a bit harder. Hard to say. But I do think his strengths of building a strong family-like bond in the dressing room and setting a culture of hard work and individual responsibility is a good place to start.
 
Top Corner10 said:
Utd 1990 - Fergie won first trophy after season-long struggle with bad form, injuries and fans demanding he be sacked… Utd finished 13th in the league having been 16th until last game. What happened when the board backed Fergie instead of sacking him?
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Jesus, can everyone give the Fergie struggling comparisons a break, football was a million miles away from what it is today. 1990 was 35 years ago. Do you think it would be ok to compare Fergies first few seasons with what happened in 1955?
 
PerthPaul said:
Yeah I keep hearing this, but at some point in every managers career they've never managed at a big club.
Poch is an example of someone close to home who proved they can make the step up.
What we see from Frank is the opposite of what we saw from Ange, tactically prowess and flexibility, the ability to develop youth, and the ability to elevate the status of a club over a period of time.

Conte had managed at big clubs, Mourinho had managed at the biggest clubs, neither worked how was intended. Or let me rephrase, neither worked as the fanbase would have liked.

Every 'big' manager out there would be wise to Levy, he's sacked 15 managers in 2 decades, the recruitment team consistently signs mediocre players and if this forum is anything to go by, the fanbase will have the daggers out if there isn't almost instant success. Why would Inzaghi or Ancelotti want to sign up for that?

The Bees fans are upset because they saw a genuine opportunity to continue growth under Frank (if they could keep their players), and they admired his loyalty and respectful nature, attributes we really need at Spurs.
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Some people seem to think managers usually start out at Real Madrid or Barca then work their way down or something.

We've already established there's no point in us appointing the Joses and Contes because our transfer and wage budget will never allow us to get the players to match. We need to appoint managers on the upswing of their careers.

That's not a defence of ENIC and Levy or approval of the way they do things, it isn't. I want them to fuck off or change their methods but until they do we need a manager who can take a relatively decent but not stellar budget and make it outperform the sum of its parts.
 
CollyQC said:
Jesus, can everyone give the Fergie struggling comparisons a break, football was a million miles away from what it is today. 1990 was 35 years ago. Do you think it would be ok to compare Fergies first few seasons with what happened in 1955?
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Also what happened when Ramos won the league cup despite the league form cratering for six months either side of that win? Oh, 2 points from 8 games the next season. There are zero guarantees really.
 
JimothyCF14 said:
Some people seem to think managers usually start out at Real Madrid or Barca then work their way down or something.

We've already established there's no point in us appointing the Joses and Contes because our transfer and wage budget will never allow us to get the players to match. We need to appoint managers on the upswing of their careers.

That's not a defence of ENIC and Levy or approval of the way they do things, it isn't. I want them to fuck off or change their methods but until they do we need a manager who can take a relatively decent but not stellar budget and make it outperform the sum of its parts.
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I couldn't have put it any better!
 
Rebrov_Likes said:
How do you benchmark what makes a manger suitable for this job then? What are the relevant KPIs? Please don’t say “trophies” because we’ve seen that getting in a serial winner isn’t necessarily a good fit for this club with this owner.

If you look at the managers who have done best under Levy - Poch and Harry - they both were able to foster a strong bond with the players and fans, they were able to develop young players into some of the best in the league, they were able to manage up to Levy well for a significant period of time, and they both succeeded in building a strong culture in the dressing room.

Both had no experience of managing a “big club” prior to being here, and both certainly helped to make us a bigger club by taking us into the CL for the first time in Harry’s case, title challenges, consistent CL qualification and the final, and moving to the new stadium in Poch’s case.

Can Frank do a similar job? No idea. It’s a really hard place to manage under Levy’s current constraints. Maybe the trophy hoodoo being off our back will make it a bit easier, maybe the shadow of Ange will make it a bit harder. Hard to say. But I do think his strengths of building a strong family-like bond in the dressing room and setting a culture of hard work and individual responsibility is a good place to start.
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Excellent post mate
 
LeeMcl said:
I am not meaning to be disrespectful to Frank. He’s clearly a capable manager. As were / are the others I mentioned.

Here’s another one, Alan Curbishley. Did brilliant at Charlton. A smaller club, less resources, got the best out of what he had.

What would have made him credible as Tottenham manager any more then Frank ?

Again, I am not meaning to suggest Frank is bad, it’s a consideration of levels.

Finding a reasonable metric to measure him is hard. One could be points per game v Top 6, and here it works out to around 0.8 per game, with his record against Chelsea being the only above that @1.33ppg.
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I understand your point mate. It is hard to find a reliable metric. Someone asked how Brentford had done in cups under Frank, like that's a point of reference we should use. Brentford on their shoestring budget v the oil barons of Newcastle and Man City. Unless you get some luck it's a complete mismatch and it's unfair to judge a manager with that level of handicap.

I think we need to look at what he can bring away from results. Development of youth, tactical flexibility, calm demeanour, respect, working within financial constraints.....all attributes Frank has that we would want from a manager at Spurs.

The more people on here talk about him not being the man for the job, the more I'm convinced he is!
 
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