Similarities with Ashley. One dimensional businessmen
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Management ENIC
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So you want them gone as well , sorry I misunderstood
Sugar didn't buy us till after the FA cup win so....................
I do think we now need a change of leadership that will prioritise winning trophies with the mentality of a big club. I am also very grateful Levy has given us the financial and infrastructure foundations to be a truly big club (whilst acknowledging he has made mistakes along the way). I think it took Levy until 2008/2009 to realise that we cannot truly complete until we had revenue streams to match Man U, Woolwich, Liverpool etc. - we won a trophy and still lost our star players - Berbatov and Keane - to domestic rivals. As a club we now need to say every summer - which 2 or 3 players can take us up a level? Not to make the squad bigger, or to invest in the future, but actually make the first XI better by adding wold class players.
This is fair.
I’m not sure they need to leave but they do need more pressure on them to actually try and win.
It’s not a major shift from them but it’s not happening under their current model.
Levy and ENIC were chancers; just like Sugar.
They saw an opportunity to make money. What many people fail to recognise was at the point that ENIC arrived they thought they would be getting access to a free stadium build at Picketts Lock which was planned for the 2005 World Athletics Championships.
Picketts Lock - Wikipedia
The first five years under ENIC was more of the same that we had under Sugar. Once they realised the free stadium at Picketts Lock was no longer going to happen we got ongoing managerial sackings, the season ticket waiting list and continual sales of the best players to genuinely ambitious clubs.
ENIC did better than Sugar, over their initial 9 year period, in so far as Spurs qualified for European competitions on more occasions.
Spurs played in Europe in season 91/92 and 99/00 during Sugar's nine seasons as chairman. They also won the League Cup once.
Spurs played in Europe in seasons 06/07, 07/08, and 08/09 during Daniel Levy's first nine seasons as chairman. They also won the League Cup once.
The truth is that over the same 9 year time period, that Alan Sugar was Spurs chairman, Spurs gained one more season of 2nd tier European football under ENIC and a slightly better average league finish.
In other words the improvement was insignificant.
What did happen, from season 05 / 06, was that Spurs made steady progress from regularly qualifying for the Europa League to Champions League qualification.
It is fair to say that ENIC began to get better results for Spurs after their initial nine year period in charge.
What should be mentioned though is that under Sugar Spurs did invest heavily in redeveloping the Paxton Road and Park Lane ends of White Hart Lane during a period when there was less TV revenue flowing in than when ENIC took over later on.
In my opinion there is hardly a fag papers difference between Sugar's time in charge and ENIC's initial 9 years in charge.
Sugar hired Ossie Ardiles, Gerry Francis, Christian Gross and George Graham as his managers.
He fired Terry Venables and three of his own picks.
Levy hired Glenn Hoddle, Jacques Santini, Martin Jol, Juande Ramos, Harry Redknapp and David Pleat as a nine month caretaker.
He fired George Graham, David Pleat and 5 of his own picks that he hired during that 9 year period.
My abiding memory of ENIC's early period in charge at Spurs was virtually the whole ground singing; "Stand up if you want Pleat out" and David Pleat actually stood up in the technical area as a deliberate response to those chants.
I knew then what Pleat thought of Levy and ENIC and realised Pleat wasn't such a wanker after all.
Funny you say that because I would and have been crowing about it for 3 years...and as I stated back then the players weren't good enough and we were taking the road to long-term mediocrity. We were passed the reload stage and needed a rebuild and not a personality-lead insta-winner jolt.
At some point you need to bite the bullet but DL was not willing to do that because from a sporting perspective his incentives were corrupted. He wasn't looking at the long-term interests of the club. He was looking at a quick sale off the back of the CL final and Poch's success. That never materialized and here we are.
So, I would have then and every friggin day since. I want this Italian fraud gone as much as I wanted the Portuguese frauds gone. And I've wanted most of the fraud players gone...and that includes the plodding sacred cow because he's holding any rebuild back as well.
If you are not at the top of the food chain you cannot play by the chequebook rules. Project building is the only way we can have sporting success.
Hand on heart...
Oh my! Is this a prediction, hope, or fear Cranny? I'm trying to work it out for myself...nahhhhh, actually I have...
Are there any odds on the trifecta?
Deuterz
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Funny you say that because I would and have been crowing about it for 3 years...and as I stated back then the players weren't good enough and we were taking the road to long-term mediocrity. We were passed the reload stage and needed a rebuild and not a personality-lead insta-winner jolt.
At some point you need to bite the bullet but DL was not willing to do that because from a sporting perspective his incentives were corrupted. He wasn't looking at the long-term interests of the club. He was looking at a quick sale off the back of the CL final and Poch's success. That never materialized and here we are.
So, I would have then and every friggin day since. I want this Italian fraud gone as much as I wanted the Portuguese frauds gone. And I've wanted most of the fraud players gone...and that includes the plodding sacred cow because he's holding any rebuild back as well.
If you are not at the top of the food chain you cannot play by the chequebook rules. Project building is the only way we can have sporting success.
Hand on heart...
Be interesting times on here and at the club if that dictates the next choice of manager.
Looking around for a current young (maybe assistant manager) with a clear vision of how they want to play does not strike me as the move Levy will make though.
Unless he thinks Mason deserves 3 years to build something.
But after Conte not sure who else you could go for from the “elite”. Tuchel at a quick guess.
Yeah, well, my answer to the craven folks in power at the club would be don't put yourself in the firing line if you aren't willing to take the bullets; lead, follow, or get out of the way.
All the more reason the decision to constructively fire Poch was short-sighted and foolish. We had our man, the vibes, the positive new history and culture. It didn't make sense when he was doing it (not backing him) and, for me, it didn't make sense when he was fired. But in my decision making I had the luxury of not thinking any of the players were good enough so I was fine in getting rid of any and all of them...and still am. In fact, I'm at the point where my desire for most to be gone is active and no longer passive...sacred cow included.
In theory I'm cool with it but you need to have a reasonable basis for your faith in someone. Woolwich had that with Arteta and even then it was a pretty big call. But truth is they had hit, for them, what was rock-bottom. Perhaps we need to as well...hence, my desire for the trifecta. Let it get toxic...I can't fucking wait!!!! Like in the US West, let's have a controlled burn!!!!
For Mason, what would be the basis of faith in said player? for me, the coaches he's learned under were not tactical masterminds so what's the basis for faith in him coming good in the technical area or the training ground? And I'd always back the lesser player (particularly one that played on good teams) to be a better coach than the greater player but I'd be dubious of Mason's pedigree and training...plus, there's the Winks factor. But in Mason's case I'd need more to go on. But this could be a goer for DL.
Wouldn't want to guess but feel pretty decent that we may have exhausted the supply. but there seems to be no floor to DL's shamelessness so I expect him to try again (an Italian, of course). The fact is, if/when he re-appoints Poch or otherwise goes the 'project route' then that puts his last 3-5 of folly under the microscope. Hopefully he'll be doing it in a truly toxic environment. It will be of his own making.
What do people mean when they say project manager?
Gives minutes to cheaper Young players, uses press tactics, has never won anything but appeals to everyone’s sympathy for underdogs.
Why would we want that?
Gives minutes to cheaper Young players, uses press tactics, has never won anything but appeals to everyone’s sympathy for underdogs.
Why would we want that?
For me it’s hiring a manager with a longer term view - from both him and the club.
Look at conte. Nobody expects him to be here 4-5 years +. There is constant speculation about him leaving - in part due to his own history as he’s never been at 1 club (Juve) for more than 3 seasons.
But he’s a “winner”.
Although at his first club his win percentage was less than 10%.
I understand the game has changed though. And maybe supporters too. The now culture in life is also in football too.
Where’s the joy in building something organically?
I really thought we had that with Poch , he’d probably still be here if ENIC would have shown some loyalty & commitment
Yeah first sign of trouble they pressed eject.
Sort of prompted my first post on here yesterday. Bill Nicholson had a long time in charge at spurs.
But after his first 5 seasons things weren’t stellar.
6th
8th
3rd
7th
6th
11th
3rd
Is that the “best” people refer to? Or were times just very very different then.
People & owners had more patience, probably owners just left the managers to it as the money involved wasn’t as insane as it is these days .
ENIC pressed eject on Poch because they wouldn’t show him any commitment. Imagine getting to a Champion League final & being rewarded with no new players for 500 days , it’s bound to affect the manager which will then affect the players
They really fucked up there. Not that I’d want poch back , well he’d be mad to come back under the current regime .
I’m with you on the patience with managers (and players).
The flip side is that more managers get a chance these days. There seems to be a long list of potential project managers and the overall quality of coaching seems to have gone up, possibly because opportunities for the top jobs are more liquid.
I think his disdain for the Amazon documentary, which Levy persevered with against his will anyway, was the final straw.
A newly appointed Jose was always gonna add some spice and bump the ratings.
You seem to be a moderate voice on here, Bernard.
Hand on heart, why do you think Levy appointed the likes of Mourinho and Conte when his own ethos is completely and utterly in contrast to how these two elite managers forged their reputation and success?
My own view. in both cases. It was simply to quieten growing resentment within the fanbase as a cheaper alternative to investing the necessary funds into the playing squad.
A gimmick. A popularist move to buy himself more time.
I'd be interested to see some alternative theories though
I think with Jose he was genuinely star struck like a teenage girl at a Bay City Rollers concert , ( showing my age). Conte was available and Levy shat his panties when for the first time the crowd got very hostile over ENIC’s incompetent appointment of Nuno.
Clearly this is only my opinion, but i am comfortable that I am not a million miles off
