Management ENIC

JohnLondon · 31 Dec 2022

Our success rate on transfers must be the worst in the Premier league. The amount of money we have wasted on average or poor players is shocking. The likes of Ndombele, Sanchez, Lo Celso, Emerson, Reguilon, Bergwjin, Sessegnon, Doherty, Aurier, Gil etc have cost us close to £300 million. How many of these were signed because the manager at the time wanted them or were Levy/ DoF signings, I have no idea. You can add Spence onto that list, another £20m wasted on a player that the manager clearly didn’t want.
You then get onto our youth academy. Over the last 20 or so years since Enic’s ownership, the only player I can think of that has come through the ranks & has been top class is Kane. That a shocking return & makes you wonder what the point of our academy is.

stevee · 31 Dec 2022

Zomb said:
It’s not just first team recruitment that’s the issue. It’s his ultimate failure as a business leader to set a strategy and execute. He’s a poor leader, a one dimensional finance director

Can you explain that a bit more for me ?

How does one set a strategy and execute it successfully ?
What strategy should it be ?

stevee · 31 Dec 2022

JohnLondon said:
Our success rate on transfers must be the worst in the Premier league. The amount of money we have wasted on average or poor players is shocking. The likes of Ndombele, Sanchez, Lo Celso, Emerson, Reguilon, Bergwjin, Sessegnon, Doherty, Aurier, Gil etc have cost us close to £300 million. How many of these were signed because the manager at the time wanted them or were Levy/ DoF signings, I have no idea. You can add Spence onto that list, another £20m wasted on a player that the manager clearly didn’t want.
You then get onto our youth academy. Over the last 20 or so years since Enic’s ownership, the only player I can think of that has come through the ranks & has been top class is Kane. That a shocking return & makes you wonder what the point of our academy is.

None of them are "Levy" signings.

Levy does not identify or scout players.

Players are presented by the scouting team for approval
The manager is then asked if he wants them. (There is ample proof of this)
If the manager says "yes" we sign them, if he says "no" we don't.

There is a strategy of trying to buy a mix of first team players and younger players that can be developed.
But even then the manager has the final say, see Spence.

spids · 31 Dec 2022

JohnLondon said:
Our success rate on transfers must be the worst in the Premier league. The amount of money we have wasted on average or poor players is shocking. The likes of Ndombele, Sanchez, Lo Celso, Emerson, Reguilon, Bergwjin, Sessegnon, Doherty, Aurier, Gil etc have cost us close to £300 million. How many of these were signed because the manager at the time wanted them or were Levy/ DoF signings, I have no idea. You can add Spence onto that list, another £20m wasted on a player that the manager clearly didn’t want.
You then get onto our youth academy. Over the last 20 or so years since Enic’s ownership, the only player I can think of that has come through the ranks & has been top class is Kane. That a shocking return & makes you wonder what the point of our academy is.

All clubs have about a 50-50 success rate with signings. Even Sir Alex Ferguson only got about half of his right. As well as the ones you listed we also have had a lot of very successful signings in the last 15 years or so.

Bale (£5M), Modric (£16.5M), Son (£22M), Dele (£5M), Dembele (£11M), Vertonghen (£10M), Alderweireld (£11M), Rose (£1M), Walker (£2M), Bentancur (£16M), Højbjerg (£12M), Kulusevski (£25M),

stevee · 31 Dec 2022

spids said:
All clubs have about a 50-50 success rate with signings. Even Sir Alex Ferguson only got about half of his right. As well as the ones you listed we also have had a lot of very successful signings in the last 15 years or so.

Bale (£5M), Modric (£16.5M), Son (£22M), Dele (£5M), Dembele (£11M), Vertonghen (£10M), Alderweireld (£11M), Rose (£1M), Walker (£2M), Bentancur (£16M), Højbjerg (£12M), Kulusevski (£25M),

All those with, in effect, a DoF I'm place.

The ones listed previously, no DoF.

JohnLondon · 31 Dec 2022

spids said:
All clubs have about a 50-50 success rate with signings. Even Sir Alex Ferguson only got about half of his right. As well as the ones you listed we also have had a lot of very successful signings in the last 15 years or so.

Bale (£5M), Modric (£16.5M), Son (£22M), Dele (£5M), Dembele (£11M), Vertonghen (£10M), Alderweireld (£11M), Rose (£1M), Walker (£2M), Bentancur (£16M), Højbjerg (£12M), Kulusevski (£25M),

I only listed players over the last 5yrs or so. If you want to go back 15yrs, there’s a whole other list of dross that we have signed.

Ed Vanderlay · 31 Dec 2022

AberdeenYid said:
Heard an interview some time back with Garry Cook, the ex Man City guy, who was there when Abu Dhabi took over. He said that the absolute number one priority for the club was to build their top end training facility, as this is the thing that attracts players over all else. He said it wasn’t the money (what’s an extra £20k per week when you are on £200k per week?), but the environment you spent most of your time in - the training ground.

I’m with him on that, so I for one am delighted we can offer such a facility. I’m pretty sure it has helped attract players to sign for us and will continue to do so. Probably saving us a few quid on salaries too.

It is not showing any signs of helping us develop academy talent , still a shambles

Ed Vanderlay · 31 Dec 2022

stevee said:
It's as I said way back ;

Everything bad = Levy

Everything good = luck, not Levy

Well our two most successful managers Harry and Poch wasn’t part of Danny boys master plan . He sacked Ramos and was terrified we would go down , Redknapp was Levy’s big Sam hire , so it was luck . If LVG had not backed out on Levy we would not have had Poch , so a bit lucky . Santini walks and BMJ takes over not exactly part of Levy’s plan . So his hires that have stayed and done well did have a big slice of luck , his others hires have been pretty pony
Conte is clearly a great manager but he and Levy seem strange bedfellows, I fear Conte goes end of the season, hope not obviously

AberdeenYid · 31 Dec 2022

Ed Vanderlay said:
It is not showing any signs of helping us develop academy talent , still a shambles

100% agree. Our academy should be producing a lot more. Still think we should go balls out for a quality manager to run the academy. I know we’d never attract a high end manager for this role, but someone like Ralph Hassenhutl could come. Pay the man several million a year and he should produce enough quality players to pay for himself many times over.

However, the original point stands. One of the key aspects of a quality training facility is to attract quality players. Just need to get the academy running too now.

skywalker68 · 31 Dec 2022

Richard Arlison said:
And now sold to a new owner who is going HARD in the paint on transfers whilst we stick to the budget. Who knows if these players work out but Chelsea fans will be enjoying it.

That’s the disconnect between what Levy/ENIC think fans want and what most fans want. Most of us can see the massive improvements in the club but the cold truth is that for most fans they want to see the club win more than anything else.

Yes, nobody can deny, that the infrastructure at the club has improved.
Whilst that is all good, the big clubs are judged by what is achieved on the pitch.
To me everything at the club like levy himself is superficial, I know many don't like the way Chelsea do business, but they will be winning again long before we even get a sniff.
It looks increasingly likely Conte will leave in the summer, with poch probably back in and the whole cycle of patience is applied again.

stevee · 31 Dec 2022

Ed Vanderlay said:
Well our two most successful managers Harry and Poch wasn’t part of Danny boys master plan . He sacked Ramos and was terrified we would go down , Redknapp was Levy’s big Sam hire , so it was luck . If LVG had not backed out on Levy we would not have had Poch , so a bit lucky . Santini walks and BMJ takes over not exactly part of Levy’s plan . So his hires that have stayed and done well did have a big slice of luck , his others hires have been pretty pony
Conte is clearly a great manager but he and Levy seem strange bedfellows, I fear Conte goes end of the season, hope not obviously

Yeah, everything good is luck.

Righto

Ed Vanderlay · 31 Dec 2022

Here is a worrying thought, we were very much on the periphery of the Super League but did get an invite . I am glad it never happened but I fear if the greedy gits revisit this in a couple of years they will want the Saudi money . I think there is real chance Newcastle financially bully their way in at our expense .

I am in that Catch 22 of I never want it to return , but would want to be in it out of necessity if it did

Ed Vanderlay · 31 Dec 2022

stevee said:
Yeah, everything good is our luck.

Righto

I am just saying none of it was part of Levy’s strategy , it clearly wasn’t

stevee · 31 Dec 2022

Ed Vanderlay said:
I am just saying none of it was part of Levy’s strategy , it clearly wasn’t

No, you literally said it was luck.

Kosher Kid · 31 Dec 2022

For better or worse said:
I’ve heard it all now. A manager paid to take a dive after a few months that ultimately goes on to tank the rest of his career. He was barely here any time, he wasn’t going to buy a house that quickly, managers never do.

As it’s been widely reported Carrick, Bale, Modric and Berba all wanted moves, and all but one (Modric) downed tools.

as I’ve said I’m not a Levy fan but I’m also not going to make stuff up as it just weakens the argument. I appreciate you don’t care for my opinion but there’s enough other stuff to lay at his feet without this

By the time Santini was appointed the natives were getting restless. ENIC had been in for three years by then, off the back of Sugar's regime, and had already sacked two managers; George Graham and Glenn Hoddle. We had also had David Pleat in charge for nine months as a caretaker.

Sol Campbell had left on a free transfer, to the other lot, and the free 44,000 stadium at Picketts Lock had disappeared up Tessa Jowell's arse.

ENIC were also at their penny pinching worst taking away cup matches from season tickets, increasing the cost of season tickets, starting season ticket waiting lists and taking away benefits from season ticket holders, such as associate club membership, which allowed season ticket holders to get the same discount on club merchandise as members who would pick and choose the games they wanted to attend.

I was angry about ENIC's ownership at the time and it is why I remember all these details so well. It had also become common knowledge by then that Roman Abramovich had approached Levy and made an offer to buy the club before he decided to buy Chelsea. Levy turned him down.

Levy sells Tottenham's best players to whoever he wants to whenever he wants to; unless they run their contracts down like Toby, Eriksen and Danny Rose.

Luka Modric reveals he wants to leave Tottenham for Chelsea

Ed Vanderlay · 31 Dec 2022

AberdeenYid said:
100% agree. Our academy should be producing a lot more. Still think we should go balls out for a quality manager to run the academy. I know we’d never attract a high end manager for this role, but someone like Ralph Hassenhutl could come. Pay the man several million a year and he should produce enough quality players to pay for himself many times over.

However, the original point stands. One of the key aspects of a quality training facility is to attract quality players. Just need to get the academy running too now.

This is not anti ENIC , our academy has produced the occasional gem 4 by my count last 50 years. We have never had 3-4-5 top internationals all come through together, it’s strange

daveyboy88 · 31 Dec 2022

Kosher Kid said:
By the time Santini was appointed the natives were getting restless. ENIC had been in for three years by then, off the back of Sugar's regime, and had already sacked two managers; George Graham and Glenn Hoddle. We had also had David Pleat in charge for nine months as a caretaker.

Sol Campbell had left on a free transfer, to the other lot, and the free 44,000 stadium at Picketts Lock had disappeared up Tessa Jowell's arse.

ENIC were also at their penny pinching worst taking away cup matches from season tickets, increasing the cost of season tickets, starting season ticket waiting lists and taking away benefits from season ticket holders, such as associate club membership, which allowed season ticket holders to get the same discount on club merchandise as members who would pick and choose the games they wanted to attend.

I was angry about ENIC's ownership at the time and it is why I remember all these details so well. It had also become common knowledge by then that Roman Abramovich had approached Levy and made an offer to buy the club before he decided to buy Chelsea. Levy turned him down.

Levy sells Tottenham's best players to whoever he wants to whenever he wants to; unless they run their contracts down like Toby, Eriksen and Danny Rose.

Luka Modric reveals he wants to leave Tottenham for Chelsea

it does feel like the last chance for enic really. if wheels are still spinning in two years time then i think the last of their defenders would have turned. im no defender but i feel i understand the situation the club has been in. enic missed the boat by not loaning the club money when we had berbatov and keane, wise investment then would of easily been paid back as that was a clear opening for the club to really break into the top 2 clubs in the league. then they missed another boat when we had bale and modric, another time they could of lent the club money and been paid back easily from the success that would have followed. thats 2 strikes imo! we now seem at that sort of point again where yet again we need investment to really break into the elite. if they get this wrong then they clearly are not good enough at running a football club as theyve had enough chances.

Ed Vanderlay · 31 Dec 2022

stevee said:
No, you literally said it was luck.

Well if it wasn’t part of his strategy and he stumbled into it despite his best efforts to do something else what would you call it
I’d say he was lucky

stevee · 31 Dec 2022

Ed Vanderlay said:
This is not anti ENIC , our academy has produced the occasional gem 4 by my count last 50 years. We have never had 3-4-5 top internationals all come through together, it’s strange

Agree with that but which team has ?

Even pre Enic we never had that.

Utd lucked out with the 92 lot.
The oil clubs hoovered up the best young talent from around the world, so that doesn't count.

Apart from those, I can't think of a club that produced top players at the same time

The Extra Mile(sey) · 31 Dec 2022

daveyboy88 said:
it does feel like the last chance for enic really. if wheels are still spinning in two years time then i think the last of their defenders would have turned. im no defender but i feel i understand the situation the club has been in. enic missed the boat by not loaning the club money when we had berbatov and keane, wise investment then would of easily been paid back as that was a clear opening for the club to really break into the top 2 clubs in the league. then they missed another boat when we had bale and modric, another time they could of lent the club money and been paid back easily from the success that would have followed. thats 2 strikes imo! we now seem at that sort of point again where yet again we need investment to really break into the elite. if they get this wrong then they clearly are not good enough at running a football club as theyve had enough chances.

It doesn't feel like last chance to me

They can continue screwing things up for 20 more years and they'll still be in charge

Fans can't stay away and they know it

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