Agree but doing what you can - empty seats, no merch, no beer etc is the best model. It won't make ENIC poor overnight but they rely on their 'customers'.
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Management ENIC
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You mentioning fans when in reality they have very little influence . Football has of course changed and yes to a lot of fans top 4 is considered a success , something we are nowhere near . Having a bloke oversee 23 companies is ridiculous especially when he’d be nothing without the very one that is the base for everything , which he ignores
There’s another term for Levy brain , it’s giving a fuck about the on field situation
You mentioning fans when in reality they have very little influence . Football has of course changed and yes to a lot of fans top 4 is considered a success , something we are nowhere near . Having a bloke oversee 23 companies is ridiculous especially when he’d be nothing without the very one that is the base for everything , which he ignores
There’s another term for Levy brain , it’s giving a fuck about the on field situation
No, the media and the entire prem league, before Levy was even a jizz in the PLs balls was geared towards hyping up the 'top 4' and EU competition, largely diminishing the domestic cups. Fans, like me and yes, I'm pretty sure like you and many others on here bought into the narrative and the story of it
Levy having 23 companies does nothing to change that I'm afraid no matter how hard you try to convince me and yourself otherwise.
This is the Levy / ENIC thread?
"You have Levy brain!"
*comes in to a thread about Levy on a near daily basis, a thread he is universally unpopular in, in order to tirelessly argue in his favour and make pedantic corrections about people's basic venting during a time we are in an abysmal place as a club*.
Good faith arguments with any of these people are pointless. They're just interested in feeling better than others because they're so mature and intellectual and don't engage in all that silly getting annoyed at football stuff even though sport is 99% emotion.
More energy put in to defending a chairman who no matter why or how is failing on a sporting level, than energy put in to caring about the fact we are abysmal.
Well , we shall not be troubling any cups, domestic or otherwise , for the foreseeable will we . Any idea why ?
Probably just accept that you can only piss with the cock you’ve got.
Nobody is going to sell a multi billion company because of some tweets, banners and songs. Just not going to happen.
The only thing that would encourage a sale is if the revenues started to dip alarmingly and that’s not happening either.
Exactly!
I was there when José was sacked just before the League Cup & I couldn't understand why (José is one of my favourite coaches/managers & I was soo excited when he joined) I was so confused, not angry but had no conceivable idea why the club would do such a thing on the eve of a damn trophy when we had at the time a near 10yr drought!
Then I found out why & I was utterly disgusted José has beaten Pep's bullshit soo many times he was THE BEST TO WIN IT - I had tickets to the final & I sold them because I knew we would lose because what kind of message does that send to the players? the fans? it shows they would rather save money than actually win trophies.
I was soo depressed as we had Kane, Son, Bale, Winks, Lloris & Dier in the final but I couldn't do it as I honestly felt betrayed by the club on a personal level.
Most aren't asking for that from my interactions from this group - yes there are a fair few of Levy/Ange out but it seems to me the main focus is showing Levy et al that we want a re-focus of Tottenham to be on the Club/Team & they're not chasing the unattainable.
SpiderSpurs
please correct me if this isn't the vibes you're getting? as I think Mr AberdeenYid considers all concerned with wanting change are a monolith of aims instead of a spectrum of thought.
The starting point for any good faith argument must surely be to accept that other people can have a different opinion to you, yet it still be a valid opinion. Sadly, that is something that most of this forum (and indeed most of the general public / world) fails to do. (I'll leave you to consider which group of like-minded posters on here is the most likely to refuse to accept that someone else can legitimately disagree with them...
)Years ago I was promised by one poster a 'blank-slate good-faith discussion' on my opinions on ENIC's reign - as expected, it became obvious very quickly that the 'good faith' did not extend to accepting that I had different opinions and expectations to that poster, or indeed consideration of any nuance, and therein lies the reason for most of the frustration with the arguing on here. Genuine debating whilst accepting that others may have a different opinion, and trying to undrstand it, is wholesome, and everyone tends to learn from it - conversely, arguing and getting frustrated because others don't agree with you is utterly pointless.
I understand exactly the points you are making.
It's crowd control isn't it?
Stewarding on a forum.
Don't say that or you will be asked to leave the stadium.
Spurs supporters of all stripes need to unite at the moment.
The problem is obvious and those who choose to defend it beyond Ange are going to be lonely.
Unfortunately in life there are many things that are beyond your control
I always go into any conversation here with good faith - I've never & will never insult anyone personally, use demeaning language. I try my hardest not to talk past people & when we do & face an impasse I tend to move on instead of getting 'frustrated' but this comes from my educational background & what I do for a job.The starting point for any good faith argument must surely be to accept that other people can have a different opinion to you, yet it still be a valid opinion. Sadly, that is something that most of this forum (and indeed most of the general public / world) fails to do. (I'll leave you to consider which group of like-minded posters on here is the most likely to refuse to accept that someone else can legitimately disagree with them...
Years ago I was promised by one poster a 'blank-slate good-faith discussion' on my opinions on ENIC's reign - as expected, it became obvious very quickly that the 'good faith' did not extend to accepting that I had different opinions and expectations to that poster, or indeed consideration of any nuance, and therein lies the reason for most of the frustration with the arguing on here. Genuine debating whilst accepting that others may have a different opinion, and trying to undrstand it, is wholesome, and everyone tends to learn from it - conversely, arguing and getting frustrated because others don't agree with you is utterly pointless.
I've never had a problem with disagreements on any forum & I've used forums since the BBS days of ol 28k modems.
There have been times, as I've said before, that Levy's / ENIC actions I have taken personally - you can argue that's immature & I can agree with you to some level but I was passionate about those decisions because I love this club. I also understand not all Spurs fans are a monolith of thought.
Over £250 for a standing ticket to watch Beyonce. The world is fucked isnt it?
That's not a suggestion that's merely a platitude but I get your point.
What we can control is how we show our responses publicly whether or not that does implement change I'm willing to give a few hours of my time to do so.
I take it you aren't a member of the beyhive then ?
That's what the Ossie face is for:
Or Tactics Tim if you prefer:
Or Golfing Gareth if you like em young:
Bears saying, because even if you knew many others act like they don't.
The starting point for any good faith argument must surely be to accept that other people can have a different opinion to you, yet it still be a valid opinion. Sadly, that is something that most of this forum (and indeed most of the general public / world) fails to do. (I'll leave you to consider which group of like-minded posters on here is the most likely to refuse to accept that someone else can legitimately disagree with them...
Years ago I was promised by one poster a 'blank-slate good-faith discussion' on my opinions on ENIC's reign - as expected, it became obvious very quickly that the 'good faith' did not extend to accepting that I had different opinions and expectations to that poster, or indeed consideration of any nuance, and therein lies the reason for most of the frustration with the arguing on here. Genuine debating whilst accepting that others may have a different opinion, and trying to undrstand it, is wholesome, and everyone tends to learn from it - conversely, arguing and getting frustrated because others don't agree with you is utterly pointless.
It is what it is mate. It works both ways. When we were winning games if you had any doubts about Ange and expressed them, you'd get absolutely cut down. We're currently in the worst state we've been for years and the bigger picture is Levy is failing to deliver in many areas for the club. If someone is venting about spending they don't really want or need someone to come in with pedantic corrections.
No 'group' on here accepts people disagree with them. I don't even think there is a Levy In group (its too small) but I'm yet to see any single collection of posters who deal with opposing views in a constructive, fair manner. People take their chances to rub other people's noses in it when they're on top.
I don't know why there is even any debate over Levy now. I'm so disinterested in debating the micro with him and whether the Beyonce concerts benefit us or whether we do spend enough. All I know and care about is we are failing repeatedly and not improving. ENIC haven't delivered on what they promised in any way and they deserve the fans to be outraged. I don't see what some fans are aiming for when they still argue in their favour, look at the fucking state of the club.