Management ENIC

[FightingIllini]

Sure - but we bought Richarlison that summer. If that was Conte's plan, he still didn't do it.

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Yeah....there was a lot of that that season. Who knows what was in that barmy head of his.

The outcome is that it isn't money related because we still clearly spend it.

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But in aggregate, at the end of the day, we've extended our resources less than everyone else. Given our manager less of what the club takes in than anybody else. In squad depth, in age profile, in that marginal bit of quality, death by a thousand cuts.

Bar the unprecedented betrayal and murder of the best project Levy had ever stumbled upon in Summer 2018, it hasn't generally been a story of one massive failure, it's just the slow buildup of refusal to act competitively at the margin.

 

[CJJ]

What the flying fook does that have to do with the points you've raised?

I hate to break it to you but the more matches you win, the higher you finish in the table hence why it's relative.

Yes, relative to the top 6...probably because the top 6 teams are normally the teams who compete for the league...

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That is the entire point I raised. We've been around the top 6 in terms of wage spend the whole time and people say it is not enough.
I showed there was little to no correlation between league finish between the top 6 salary clubs.

That article says the same thing.

Thus "There are actual studies on this, wages have always been correlated with team performance." is what I'm saying is not at all the case in context of the PL and the position we are in.

 

[CJJ]

But in aggregate, at the end of the day, we've extended our resources less than everyone else. Given our manager less of what the club takes in than anybody else. In squad depth, in age profile, in that marginal bit of quality, death by a thousand cuts.

Bar the unprecedented betrayal and murder of the best project Levy had ever stumbled upon in Summer 2018, it hasn't generally been a story of one massive failure, it's just the slow buildup of refusal to act competitively at the margin.

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It isn't "less than everyone else" though. Less than team that win the PL title, yes - because that unlocks a different level of finances and prestige that attracts the top players.
I don't think it is at all "less than everyone else" when comparing to teams in our situation and stature. We're battling well above our position for a team with a new stadium.

When comparing to Liverpool, we've spent a lot more money on the squad. They have, on a few occasions, spend more money on individual players, but they have also typically had summers (like last summer) when they have been unambitious in the market. We shouldn't ever be compared to cheats like City and Chelsea as it's not a fair comparison

 

[Shadydan]

That is the entire point I raised. We've been around the top 6 in terms of wage spend the whole time and people say it is not enough.
I showed there was little to no correlation between league finish between the top 6 salary clubs.

That article says the same thing.

Thus "There are actual studies on this, wages have always been correlated with team performance." is what I'm saying is not at all the case in context of the PL and the position we are in.

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We haven't been anywhere near 'around the top 6', the closest we've ever been to the top team in the league is £1.2m less per week for 1 year, that isn't around or close and isn't sustainable if you want to compete with the top teams.

As I said the vast majority of teams in your chart all have had a small differential between them, bar Liverpool's over performance but this takes me back to the point of Liverpool being a well ran club and doing things the right way, whilst our board...

 

[CJJ]

We haven't been anywhere near 'around the top 6', the closest we've ever been to the top team in the league is £1.2m less per week for 1 year, that isn't around or close and isn't sustainable if you want to compete with the top teams.

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2022-2023 Premier League Wages | FBref.com

Check out 2022-2023 for the Premier League Wages season.

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2022/23 - We were 5th, paying more than Woolwich

2023-2024 Premier League Wages | FBref.com

Check out 2023-2024 for the Premier League Wages season.

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2023/24 - 6th, within £400k per week of Liverpool.

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2024/25 - 7th behind villa, but still one VVD salary from Liverpool - who walked the title

For the record, this is the frustration - people criticise without having to actually base the argument factually. The only real difference between Liverpool and ourselves in May 2019 was 90 mins. Then we gave Poch £200m and he pissed it up the wall on a bunch of imposters.

People use the term "well run club" in lieu of actually how the club is ran, and base it off how well they do in the league.
Imagine if we had the transfers Liverpool had last summer. A crocked midfielder and a backup keeper for 12 months time.

 

[MemphisWill]

Harry Kane was at our place when Vlahovic went to Juventus , and Vlahovic would have relished playing alongside HK .

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It's not the 90s anymore, they wouldn't have played together.

 

[Shadydan]

This is what I'm talking about btw

Look at the gap between us and our top 5 'rivals' and then look at the gap to the teams below us

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You can go back to 2013/14 and you will see how far we've been off our rivals and how big the gap has been.

 

[Kevin Ball]

I'm sure it makes sense if you invent Vlahovic's dialogue in your head.

When have we ever, pretty much since Redknapp left, played 2 up front? We signed lots of strikers when Kane was here and I can count on one hand how many times they played with him. Crazy to think that someone in Italy would turn down Juventus for Spurs, not least at that time.


Davinson Sanchez, Foyth, Aurier, Llorente joined in August 2017 (Summer window 17/18)
Lucas Moura joined in January 2018 (Winter window 17/18)
We then had no major incomings in 18/19 (two windows)
Clarke and Ndombele joined in July 2019, with Sess a month later (Summer window 19/20)

So no, not a fact at all - an "old wives tale".


Care to give a reference for that?

We know that Poch turned down Tielemens to replace Mousa Dembele in the winter window of 18/19

"Pertinently, the report reveals that Tottenham directors wanted to sanction a loan deal with an option to buy clause but Pochettino wasn't convinced by Tielemans, paving the way for Leicester to clinch his signature."

Widely reported at the time.

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So with your own admittance we went at least 2 windows without buying a player , this while we're sitting on £178mil from CL competition alone , that's without gate money , sponsorship , PL money from SKY , merchandise and shirt sales and the money from refreshment outfits inside the stadium . So with at least £300mil , more like £400mil burning a hole in his pockets "Where did all the money Go" ??

 

[CJJ]

So with your own admittance we went at least 2 windows without buying a player , this while we're sitting on £178mil from CL competition alone , that's without gate money , sponsorship , PL money from SKY , merchandise and shirt sales and the money from refreshment outfits inside the stadium . So with at least £300mil , more like £400mil burning a hole in his pockets "Where did all the money Go" ??

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No it was the two windows before that. We spend it all on Ndombele, Sessegnon, and Lo Celso.

 

[FightingIllini]

It isn't "less than everyone else" though.

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When comparing to Liverpool, we've spent a lot more money on the squad.

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Alisson 55M
TAA HGP Van Dijk 75M Konate 36M Robertson 8M
Gravenberch 34M Szoboszlai 60M MacAllister 55M
Diaz 47M Gakpo 37M Salah 43M

Nunez 64M Jota 41M

Vicario 17M
Porro 39M VDV 43M Romero 42M Udogie 15M
Bentancur 21M Bissouma 25M Maddison 40M
Johnson 40M Solanke 65M Son 22M

Richarlison 60M Kulusevski 37M

 

[Kevin Ball]

No it was the two windows before that. We spend it all on Ndombele, Sessegnon, and Lo Celso.

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Ndombele £64mil , Sessegnon £30mil and LoCelso £46mil . That accounts for SKY money and sponsorship money , what happened to £178mil CL money , it's never been accounted for

 

[Shadydan]

2022-2023 Premier League Wages | FBref.com

Check out 2022-2023 for the Premier League Wages season.

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2022/23 - We were 5th, paying more than Woolwich

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Yet £1m per week behind Liverpool and double the amount behind Utd...

2023-2024 Premier League Wages | FBref.com

Check out 2023-2024 for the Premier League Wages season.

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2023/24 - 6th, within £400k per week of Liverpool.

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Yet £800k per week behind Chelsea and £1.7m behind Utd...

Premier League Wages | FBref.com

Check out 2025-2026 for the Premier League Wages season.

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2024/25 - 7th behind villa, but still one VVD salary from Liverpool - who walked the title

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The fact that we're even behind Villa who overtook us last season isn't a flex

Yes we've covered Liverpool...they over perform because they are arguably the best ran club in the league whilst we are nowhere near that.

For the record, this is the frustration - people criticise without having to actually base the argument factually. The only real difference between Liverpool and ourselves in May 2019 was 90 mins. Then we gave Poch £200m and he pissed it up the wall on a bunch of imposters.

People use the term "well run club" in lieu of actually how the club is ran, and base it off how well they do in the league.
Imagine if we had the transfers Liverpool had last summer. A crocked midfielder and a backup keeper for 12 months time.

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This is a factual argument though, you can bring up the isolated moments we missed out on trophies or getting over the line but the point is about competing consistently, that's what their owners have set them up for...we only compete if the stars align which is once in a blue moon.

There's a clear flaw in ENIC's plan and strategy and the wages thing wouldn't be a conversation had this board actually stuck to a plan and had a consistent strategy.

I hate giving Liverpool props btw but they are the literal example that we should be following.

I don't even know how long you've been coming on here but I'm far from an ENIC hater, let me tell you and have been accused of defending them but anyone can see that the board are holding this club back.

 

[CJJ]

Alisson 55M
TAA HGP Van Dijk 75M Konate 36M Robertson 8M
Gravenberch 34M Szoboszlai 60M MacAllister 55M
Diaz 47M Gakpo 37M Salah 43M

Nunez 64M Jota 41M

Vicario 17M
Porro 39M VDV 43M Romero 42M Udogie 15M
Bentancur 21M Bissouma 25M Maddison 40M
Johnson 40M Solanke 65M Son 22M

Richarlison 60M Kulusevski 37M

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I know you keep posting it but I want to make sure.

You realise "wages to turnover" is massively favouring badly-run clubs don't you? Like clubs who don't make a lot of money

For like the 10000th time, have you seen Real Madrid right next to us? It isn't what you think it is, as much as the patronising GIF attempts.

In addition "spending money on the squad" is not the same as "how much our first 11 cost". We're nearly £400m in the hole from Postecoglu alone, spending money on players that just haven't worked out.

 

[FightingIllini]

You realise "wages to turnover" is massively favouring badly-run clubs don't you?

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It's not "favoring" anything, it's apples-to-apples hard data that always has and always will tell the crystal-clear truth about this administration.

Unlike your miserable, pathetic flailing.

 

[CJJ]

Yet £1m per week behind Liverpool and double the amount behind Utd...

Yet £800k per week behind Chelsea and £1.7m behind Utd...

The fact that we're even behind Villa who overtook us last season isn't a flex

Yes we've covered Liverpool...they over perform because they are arguably the best ran club in the league whilst we are nowhere near that.



This is a factual argument though, you can bring up the isolated moments we missed out on trophies or getting over the line but the point is about competing consistently, that's what their owners have set them up for...we only compete if the stars align which is once in a blue moon.

There's a clear flaw in ENIC's plan and strategy and the wages thing wouldn't be a conversation had this board actually stuck to a plan and had a consistent strategy.

I hate giving Liverpool props btw but they are the literal example that we should be following.

I don't even know how long you've been coming on here but I'm far from an ENIC hater, let me tell you and have been accused of defending them but anyone can see that the board are holding this club back.

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If Liverpool are a "well run club" despite not having one of the top 4 wage bills, nor a high net spend, how is this whole topic even valid? Surely you can see that? You said "This is a factual argument though" and "they are the literal example that we should be following"

 

[Honest John]

I don't even know how long you've been coming on here but I'm far from an ENIC hater, let me tell you and have been accused of defending them but anyone can see that the board are holding this club back.

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[scarletjim]

So with your own admittance we went at least 2 windows without buying a player , this while we're sitting on £178mil from CL competition alone , that's without gate money , sponsorship , PL money from SKY , merchandise and shirt sales and the money from refreshment outfits inside the stadium . So with at least £300mil , more like £400mil burning a hole in his pockets "Where did all the money Go" ??

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So presumably you're going to apologise for being so adamant that it was 3 windows when actually it was 2, and explain why you made such a basic error? As without that level of humility, it will be hard to take anything else you say seriously...

 

[Kevin Ball]

If Liverpool are a "well run club" despite not having one of the top 4 wage bills, nor a high net spend, how is this whole topic even valid? Surely you can see that? You said "This is a factual argument though" and "they are the literal example that we should be following"

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The fact is that after years of under-funding we have become at the foot of the ladder when it comes to top players desired go to clubs . Top players want to win honours , so given the choice Liverpool or Tottenham they would rather go to Liverpool because they have a long history of winning cups and leagues . We on the other hand had a 3-4yr spell in the top 4 of the league table , and instead of building on that , Levy has opted for cheap players rather than top players . We've fallen down the league and it's going to take a masterstroke to get us back in the top 4 regularly . Levy needs to do his bit and get us 2 or 3 elite players , if he fails to do that it's going to be more of the same . You excusing his behaviour makes him think he can carry on doing it .

 

[Kevin Ball]

So presumably you're going to apologise for being so adamant that it was 3 windows when actually it was 2, and explain why you made such a basic error? As without that level of humility, it will be hard to take anything else you say seriously...

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I still think it's 3 windows and all the group of us that travel to games think it's 3 windows , it was you that said it was 2

 

[scarletjim]

I still think it's 3 windows and all the group of us that travel to games think it's 3 windows , it was you that said it was 2

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CJJ has literally outlined for you the players signed in each window around that period - what are the 3 consecutive windows where you believe we didn't sign any players?