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Player João Palhinha

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Matt1882 said:
On the contrary, there's a danger of underrating him based on nasty, shitty team performances.
We've all been guilty of singling out individuals through all this turgid shite and missing the fact the whole team was awful.
Unlike certain players, who for the benefit of fairness I won't name this time, he has at least always put in 100% for every minute of games.
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Yeah I know what you mean.

He's always gonna be fairly limited technically but if De Zerbi's system works around his weaknesses it might not be an issue. For instance, he can drop into the back line rather than being expected to take it on the half turn from the keeper - when he's facing the play his passing isn't that bad.

If we want to play possession football and take on top teams that press like dogs, it might be tricky with Palhinha in the pivot, but he could always be a horses for courses player that we bring in and out depending on the opposition.

A month ago I 100% wanted him gone, but if De Zerbi thinks he's got something we need then I'm all for backing the manager. Against Villa we saw he can work fairly well in a possession-based team if the coaching is right (albeit against weak opposition).
 
Harrier said:
Kompany wants to play Tiki-taka in a one horse league.

The Premier League is a different beast entirely and Sunday demonstrated there’s a use for JP and we weren’t exactly playing hoof ball either.
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AberdeenYid said:
But different for him at Bayern. They have half a dozen tough matches a season, all in Europe. Maybe two against Dortmund every few years. They can play expansive football. We have growing to do. Hard work to undertake.

I enjoyed us against Villa because Gallagher was pressing like a lunatic and if ever a player got past him, they slammed straight into JP. I was actually laughing at this a couple of times. It was lovely to see.

Playing the “Spurs Way”? Bringing back memories of Hoddle, Waddle, Ginola? Fuck no. What we need in the next couple of seasons? Fuck aye.

I’d be looking to play Pal in front of the back four and have Gallagher and a creative ten further up. A sort of 41221 formation.

Have opponents, who want to go through the middle, to have to deal with Gallagher, Pal and then a big handy bastard centre half and we’d see some skid marks on shorts.
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If we got him cheap, squad player, he's probably very useful to have around. Im not against that.

If we buy him to be a first 11 player - I still think as I did when we signed him - I just think its not the signal I want to see.

As I say, I like him a lot - Im not here to slag him or be unreasonable - I just think a player as one dimensional as he is, dictates a certain level of ambition/certain direction of style

Id much rather a more rounded player, someone able to use the ball better, work in tight spaces better - and I think thats the sort of player RDZ would want too.

He might prove me wrong. I dont particularly rate Hoijberg and RDZ made him a big part of the team at Marseille - so it can happen - Id prefer a little more ambition though, a bit more aspiration

So I suppose for me its a question of his role. As a squad player, not a bad idea, get him in to close games out etc. As a regular starter? No thanks.
 
Timberwolf said:
A month ago I 100% wanted him gone, but if De Zerbi thinks he's got something we need then I'm all for backing the manager. Against Villa we saw he can work fairly well in a possession-based team if the coaching is right (albeit against weak opposition).
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Slightly broader point - Im not reading much into RDZs comments about, and use of players.

He is doing what he needs to do right now to get the results we need right now.

I would expect come the summer, he will be ruthless.

So while he is backing the like of Muani, Richarlison etc right now - talking them up, using them...

...I dont think for a second that means theyll be around past the summer.

Theres a whole raft of players that will apply too as well. Biss, Palinha, Spence, Tel... who knows who RDZ REALLY rates, and who he is just working with as he has no choice?
 
postbox said:
Slightly broader point - Im not reading much into RDZs comments about, and use of players.

He is doing what he needs to do right now to get the results we need right now.

I would expect come the summer, he will be ruthless.

So while he is backing the like of Muani, Richarlison etc right now - talking them up, using them...

...I dont think for a second that means theyll be around past the summer.

Theres a whole raft of players that will apply too as well. Biss, Palinha, Spence, Tel... who knows who RDZ REALLY rates, and who he is just working with as he has no choice?
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Yeah it's a fair point, but we can't read his mind and maybe he does genuinely rate some of these players the fans had all but written off too.

I'm sure in some cases you're right, but in others he may be actually impressed and feel these players have qualities we need moving forward.
 
Timberwolf said:
Yeah it's a fair point, but we can't read his mind and maybe he does genuinely rate some of these players the fans had all but written off too.

I'm sure in some cases you're right, but in others he may be actually impressed and feel these players have qualities we need moving forward.
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Absolutely, but only time will tell

It might be he really does love Muani, and pushes us to sign him in the summer!

But - right now - its all to be taken with a pinch of salt for me
 
Timberwolf said:
Yeah it's a fair point, but we can't read his mind and maybe he does genuinely rate some of these players the fans had all but written off too.

I'm sure in some cases you're right, but in others he may be actually impressed and feel these players have qualities we need moving forward.
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He can rate the players and still realise we need some better ones in certain areas. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
 
postbox said:
If we got him cheap, squad player, he's probably very useful to have around. Im not against that.

If we buy him to be a first 11 player - I still think as I did when we signed him - I just think its not the signal I want to see.

As I say, I like him a lot - Im not here to slag him or be unreasonable - I just think a player as one dimensional as he is, dictates a certain level of ambition/certain direction of style

Id much rather a more rounded player, someone able to use the ball better, work in tight spaces better - and I think thats the sort of player RDZ would want too.

He might prove me wrong. I dont particularly rate Hoijberg and RDZ made him a big part of the team at Marseille - so it can happen - Id prefer a little more ambition though, a bit more aspiration

So I suppose for me its a question of his role. As a squad player, not a bad idea, get him in to close games out etc. As a regular starter? No thanks.
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I get this. I really do. I think I just have a more old fashioned way of looking at players.

I want my 6 to break up play, get the ball back and give it to the closest player who is more skilful than he is. I don’t care if he can make a defence splitting pass with the outside of his boot after dropping the shoulder past three opponents. We should have other players who do that.

It’s in the same area for me as “goalkeepers need to be good with their feet”. Why? I’d prefer they were good with their hands. Stop goals going in and roll or throw the ball to another player. Or hoof it halfway into the oppo half.

Also see wingers who track back. No. Fullbacks who can attack effectively. No. Strikers who press. No.

A defence that stops goals, a midfield that sets them up and an attack that scores them. Very Big Sam, but I do fear we over-complicate what is a rather simple game.
 
AberdeenYid said:
I get this. I really do. I think I just have a more old fashioned way of looking at players.

I want my 6 to break up play, get the ball back and give it to the closest player who is more skilful than he is. I don’t care if he can make a defence splitting pass with the outside of his boot after dropping the shoulder past three opponents. We should have other players who do that.

It’s in the same area for me as “goalkeepers need to be good with their feet”. Why? I’d prefer they were good with their hands. Stop goals going in and roll or throw the ball to another player. Or hoof it halfway into the oppo half.

Also see wingers who track back. No. Fullbacks who can attack effectively. No. Strikers who press. No.

A defence that stops goals, a midfield that sets them up and an attack that scores them. Very Big Sam, but I do fear we over-complicate what is a rather simple game.
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Thats fair. And its not really an either/or thing - more a spectrum

The game has been complicated by the way coaches set up and play, we have to accept that (to a degree)

I like a keeper to put his foot on the ball, and be able to pass properly. I think in recent games Kinskys ability to play a pass and not flap and panic when receiving a pass - has been a massive boost to the side.

That said, he does still need to do the primary job of a keeper well - or else whats the point?

Same with wingers tracking, you do want them to do that, and competently so - but not at the cost of the good attacking stuff they are there for...

All about the balance, isnt it?

And I suppose thats where we might disagree on Palinha, for me the balance with him is skewed too much to the defensive, and I think we need a little more from the attacking/passing/composed side of things too from that position
 
postbox said:
Thats fair. And its not really an either/or thing - more a spectrum

The game has been complicated by the way coaches set up and play, we have to accept that (to a degree)

I like a keeper to put his foot on the ball, and be able to pass properly. I think in recent games Kinskys ability to play a pass and not flap and panic when receiving a pass - has been a massive boost to the side.

That said, he does still need to do the primary job of a keeper well - or else whats the point?

Same with wingers tracking, you do want them to do that, and competently so - but not at the cost of the good attacking stuff they are there for...

All about the balance, isnt it?

And I suppose thats where we might disagree on Palinha, for me the balance with him is skewed too much to the defensive, and I think we need a little more from the attacking/passing/composed side of things too from that position
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Spectrum is fair. Just mine is stuck in about 1981.

I really don’t want track back wingers. Defenders should be good enough without us having to dilute our attacking play. Can’t ever remember Waddle or Ginola shuttling back to get the ball. They managed fine. Game has changed I suppose.

Think it’s because I’ve been saying for years that we need a hard bastard in the middle of the park and we now have one, I’m desperate not to let him go. Same as my thoughts on Romero.
 
Hairy Cane said:
Man love……..there I said it.
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Get in the queue!
Happy Celebration GIF by Tottenham Hotspur
 
AberdeenYid said:
Spectrum is fair. Just mine is stuck in about 1981.

I really don’t want track back wingers. Defenders should be good enough without us having to dilute our attacking play. Can’t ever remember Waddle or Ginola shuttling back to get the ball. They managed fine. Game has changed I suppose.

Think it’s because I’ve been saying for years that we need a hard bastard in the middle of the park and we now have one, I’m desperate not to let him go. Same as my thoughts on Romero.
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You are talking about an era where full backs rarely got forward. The overlap didn't really start until the mid 90s hence wide players were able to stroll back or hang around in the touchline just inside their half.
 
Timberwolf said:
If we want to play possession football and take on top teams that press like dogs, it might be tricky with Palhinha in the pivot, but he could always be a horses for courses player that we bring in and out depending on the opposition.
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One player that can cover for either fullback going foward, and can also defend the box vs big strikers, sounds like a good deal to me. A lot of folks won't want to admit it, but vs Villa he pinged a couple of very impressive switches to find distant players. I think he's a better passer than folks give him credit for around here.
 
postbox said:
I said when we brought him in, Ive nothing against him - I think he is excellent at what he does, but...

...I think signing him signals something about the team you want to be

Look at Bayern, immediately ditched him because they want to play proper football.

I think we should do the same.

I like him a lot, I absolutely love his mentality. As a ball winner/midfield enforcer he might be the best there is, but in a team that really wants to play proper football - he doesnt have the game.

I would return him to Bayern with great gratitude for his efforts this year, considering his goals etc its not exaggerating to suggest he played a bigger part than most in our staying up (when we do!)

But we should be aiming higher.
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Totally disagree. And more importantly, so does RDZ. He's staying
 
postbox said:
If we sign Palinha as a 1st team regular, I think thats a mistake.

If we sign him as a good squad option, a good attitude/leader in the dressing room, someone to come in and close out games - thats fine by me
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I mean this is called having a squad - he may very well need to start games and keep things tight against teams with ridiculously mobile and dynamic MF 3
 
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Whether we stay up or not, we are not entering a transition phase. We get rid of the old guard that put us in this invidious position and move into a grand rebuild. That doesn’t just include the team on the pitch, it includes the coaches, the medics and of course the Club Management.
But specifically regarding the team rebuild, in the transitional phase of that, I believe that Palhinha has a very real role to play in that, with his drive, verve and personality. He may not make the final destination but I believe he could be instrumental in that rebuild. So I vote to keep him.
 
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