He did well. But he lacks final 3rd penetration to be a top full back. Harsh but true.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Ex-Spurs Player Kyle Walker-Peters
- Thread starter SchmoodSpur2013
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
Name better EPL right backs, defensively he's good, attacking maybe not so much ... it's all about opinions but I don't think you will be able to list that many.
The average goals per game has increased from 2.6 in the decade 2000-2010 to 2.75 in the last eight years, last year saw a record 1,072 goals scored, the most ever in a 38 game season ... they're facts not fiction
What rule changes - are you from Mars? - Have you not heard of VAR which will lead to more penalties, will stop defenders using illegal tactics in the box, the previous changes in contact rules, the changes in the handball rules, the changes in penalty kick rules ...
Trouble with making unsupportable comments is that you're the one who ends up speaking Grade A horseshit ...
There's disagreeing which is good for debate, and then there's just being a dick ... which were you going for?
T.A.A., Walker, Cancelo, AWB... How on earth can you claim he's at their level? Or even Bellerin or Aurier, he's played at handful of games against easy teams!
The rules have not been completely rewritten, and actually, in case you'd missed it, the PL have basically said they're going to ignore the new handball interpretation, and it will be as you were, and in general we'll see minimal VAR involvement in the PL. Clean sheets will not become a rarity, as you suggest. There's already been 5 in 7 games played. The number of goals are going up due to the disparity between the top teams and rest, so we're seeing more thrashings.
KWP being as good as every other defender in the league and new rules leading to the extinction of clean sheets is a black hole discussion akin to your belief that trophies won indicates the quality of the player. I really can't be bothered.
I think suggesting KWP is one of the top RBs in the EPL is quite a stretch given how little he's played and how many mistakes he's made. Kyle Walker not Peters, Alexander-Arnold, Pereira, Wan-Bissaka, Doherty. Those are top, proven RBs in the PL.
I don't know if rule changes have made it easier to score goals or not, but I think it's a mistake to say that rule changes that make goal scoring easier devalue defense. It changes the nature of what kind of offense and what kind of defense is valuable. For instance, the NBA made changes some years ago that prevented players from being as hands on when playing defense....you couldn't just stick your forearm into a guy. This didn't make defense less valuable. It meant that thuggish players that relied on strength were less valuable. But guys who could really move their feet on defense became MORE valuable.
The rule changes you're talking about in the PL would make masters of the dark arts like Vertonghen less valuable. (Not a knock on Vertonghen, I love the guy. But we all know it's true). But other defenders who don't rely on those tactics will be more valuable.
Nor can I ... you argue assumptions over evidence time after time, when you continue to ignore the factual evidence then what is the point debating with you ...
Look at the last few posts -
I said "KWP is as good as pretty much any EPL defender"
You said "That's just silly"
I said "I don't think you will be able to list many better right backs"
You listed four and that's fair enough I didn't say he was the very best
So what's your argument, only four better (and Walker is questionable) makes him pretty much as good or better than 13 others so who's replacing him?
I said "under the new rules the forwards have all the advantages "
You said "what new rules exactly do you think are going to change football"
I said " VAR which will lead to more penalties, will stop defenders using illegal tactics in the box, the previous changes in contact rules, the changes in the handball rules, the changes in penalty kick rules"
You said "The rules have not been completely rewritten"
Nobody ever said they had, so what's your argument here?
I said "there will be more goals, more defenders caught out, more opportunities created so to expect clean sheets every week is no longer realistic"
You said "You really do talk some grade A horse shit at times"
I said "goals per game has increased from 2.6 in the decade 2000-2010 to 2.75 in the last eight years, last year saw a record 1,072 goals scored, the most ever in a 38 game season"
You said "Clean sheets will not become a rarity, as you suggest"
Well I never suggested that and nor was I arguing that, just saying for us to expect clean sheets every week is not realistic ... again what's your argument?
Look at bfwolf's post a reasoned sensible response ... then look at your nonsense about horse-shit ... can you see the difference?
Blimey I've got way to much free time .... lol
Last edited:
Good post, never claimed KWP was the best just already up there with most of them, remember he's only played 10 EPL games in his entire career, we should give the lad a chance before crucifying him.
I personally think the rule changes make goal-scoring easier, in fact I believe that's the whole point of the changes goals means entertainment, the TV companies want excitement not tactics. The evidence shows that across Europe more and more goals are being scored ... you can make many assumptions as to why but making defending more difficult certainly must be considered a reason.
Your last paragraph is huge, the reason Pep has spent countless millions on defenders and why Liverpool, Utd, Woolwich and ourselves are all looking to do the same, is because suddenly a good defender has gone from a Cyril Knowles - Roberts - Adams - Harris the, they will not pass under any circumstances hard as nails kick you as soon as look at you defenders, into a player who is confident on the ball positionally aware, mobile, and very versatile.
A modern defender needs to not only be able to defend but also have all the skills that a midfield player has, it's why they've gone from cheap last thought signings to today's must have players ... it's why our academy is very highly focused on developing fully skilled defenders, they are the upgrade everybody will be looking for ....
So is KWP the finished article, clearly not yet, but he's no 1990's clogger either.
Last edited:
Really don't think that anyone can bitch about KWP's performance yesterday.
As with any player he needs a run of games to be judged over, and at the same time a run of games will help him get used to playing with his team mates, speed of PL etc - remember he's still only made about 10 appearances in PL in his career.
ManCity will not be an easy place to go to though, will Poch opt for the experience of Aurier, but accepting that he has made more mistakes at Spurs than might be expected of an international defender or stick with KWP. Or does he simply start rotating them, as he used to do with full backs.
Last edited:
Would be fucking stupid to opt for Aurier ahead of KWP.
This pretty much happens EVERY time. KWP has a good game and then he's suddenly dropped the following week. Happened on the opening day 17/18 after he was given MOTM against Newcastle. It happened again last season when he was given MOTM against Bournemouth. Let's not make the same mistake again.
Is it likely he has his work cut out against City? Of course. He's young, inexperienced and he'll be going up against arguably the best team in Europe. If he's not allowed to make mistakes or learn from them, what's the point?
Pochettino was brave enough to start Foyth against City last season and I have no doubt he'll do the same with KWP. It might mean Sissoko starts and helps him out and Alderweireld comes across to cover him a lot more (We may even go 3 at the back to compensate), but he needs to start.
This pretty much happens EVERY time. KWP has a good game and then he's suddenly dropped the following week. Happened on the opening day 17/18 after he was given MOTM against Newcastle. It happened again last season when he was given MOTM against Bournemouth. Let's not make the same mistake again.
Is it likely he has his work cut out against City? Of course. He's young, inexperienced and he'll be going up against arguably the best team in Europe. If he's not allowed to make mistakes or learn from them, what's the point?
Pochettino was brave enough to start Foyth against City last season and I have no doubt he'll do the same with KWP. It might mean Sissoko starts and helps him out and Alderweireld comes across to cover him a lot more (We may even go 3 at the back to compensate), but he needs to start.
That's my concern as well, but to be fair he absolutley roasted Trippier last season as well, with Trippier not knowing whether to stick or twist with his positonal play. Same with Foyth in first half of the 1-0 league game before working out how to play Stirling better in the 2nd half.
You'd have been happy with us paying £50 mil for a 21-year-old right back with 1 season under his belt rather than giving KWP, an academy product, a chance?
I think some people are massively overestimating how important a FB is to an entire season. We got to the CL final despite having chronic issues in those positions. City won the league with Zinchenko and Danilo playing significant roles.
I'm more than happy to wait until January and see how things pan out.
Good enough to play against lower PL sides but when it comes to the best this bloke is out of his depth.
Good thing we don't play against Barca at the Nou Camp every week.
Give the lad a chance. Only with experience and games under his belt will he improve. Right now he is doing well
Last edited:
I can't believe the amount of people who want/expect a ready made, world class player to stroll out of the academy... people do realise that apart from the odd freak exception, world class players are MADE, not born?
KWP is as good, if not better than most WITH HIS LIMITED experience, but that will only come with MORE experience..
Of course, it's partly up to Poch WHEN to Give him that experience, but also up to KWP to grab it with both hands when given...
Which I think he's starting to...
KWP is as good, if not better than most WITH HIS LIMITED experience, but that will only come with MORE experience..
Of course, it's partly up to Poch WHEN to Give him that experience, but also up to KWP to grab it with both hands when given...
Which I think he's starting to...
He was my MOTM yesterday. In the first half miles better than anyone else in a Spurs shirt, and for the 2nd was consistently high level with the rest of the team stepping up after some tweaks.
So, I promise I will not do this after every game because it will get boring but because it's the first game of the season and therefore so soon since King Frodo binning off I am going to make comparisons seeing especially as I've been saying he's a better footballer than Frodo.
The first and very obvious point, he gets up and down the pitch. If an attack brakes down where he is pushing high he does get back to contribute to the defence. He did this brilliantly yesterday. Tripps was usually not even in the TV frame.
The second - Probably one area where he has struggled with is his physicality, he can get pushed or bullied off the ball. Not in this game, I thought he used his body really well, so if it got physical he always won the foul as he got his body between ball and oppo. To bring this back to Tripp's, he didn't have that 1 or 2yrd of reactionary speed to create that body position, Tripps would frequently be seeing curling up lying on the floor doing his best impression of one of those miniature fortune teller fish you get in a Christmas cracker, meanwhile the oppo were attacking our goal.
Thirdly, technically good baller. This is the biggest area of difference between the two players, KWP is adept with the ball at his feet. He can pass off either foot. This impacts us and how we play and dominate games because he can play out from the back, as a team we have always had the players to do this, with the exception of Tripps. We've now got a balance across the entire back-line, no weak link to be pressed into a mistake every time they were pressed. We played some nice triangles rather than doing what Trips would do knock the ball back to where it came. It also means KWP can go on the inside and the outside of the oppo, may times yesterday he brought the ball on the inside, into midfield, this allowed some movement from say Sissoko to spin out wide to the touchline. He is prepared and capable of taking on the opp, committing them. I've seen KWP in the youth teams taking on the oppo four or 5 times per game, a run of games to build his confidence will I am sure we will see him do this more.
Fourthly, whilst not the fastest, he still a significant upgrade on Tripps in that dept.
Finally, variety. Even when Tripps had a good game you knew what that meant, each one of those rare good games was an identikit the rare other good games. KWP is harder to play against because he has a variety to his game. He's not just going to cross but he can. But he will also look to go down the line, get behind the defence, come inside. There is more to his game, so much more.
*Caveat - we dominated possession, there will be other games where he is tested more, where teams may double up on him and use their wings more.
He's still a young inexperienced player, he has a long way to go and many areas to improve on and will no doubt struggle in some games this season but we genuinely do have the makings of a very good player in KWP. I hope he's sat at the training ground right now doing his recovery with that big old smile on his face rewatching what he did in that game. I hope that fuels his confidence and takes into the next game which will be a big test for him.
But anyone shitting themselves about our RB position I hope you saw yesterday that we did resolve our problem of our RB, WE SOLD HIM.
So, I promise I will not do this after every game because it will get boring but because it's the first game of the season and therefore so soon since King Frodo binning off I am going to make comparisons seeing especially as I've been saying he's a better footballer than Frodo.
The first and very obvious point, he gets up and down the pitch. If an attack brakes down where he is pushing high he does get back to contribute to the defence. He did this brilliantly yesterday. Tripps was usually not even in the TV frame.
The second - Probably one area where he has struggled with is his physicality, he can get pushed or bullied off the ball. Not in this game, I thought he used his body really well, so if it got physical he always won the foul as he got his body between ball and oppo. To bring this back to Tripp's, he didn't have that 1 or 2yrd of reactionary speed to create that body position, Tripps would frequently be seeing curling up lying on the floor doing his best impression of one of those miniature fortune teller fish you get in a Christmas cracker, meanwhile the oppo were attacking our goal.
Thirdly, technically good baller. This is the biggest area of difference between the two players, KWP is adept with the ball at his feet. He can pass off either foot. This impacts us and how we play and dominate games because he can play out from the back, as a team we have always had the players to do this, with the exception of Tripps. We've now got a balance across the entire back-line, no weak link to be pressed into a mistake every time they were pressed. We played some nice triangles rather than doing what Trips would do knock the ball back to where it came. It also means KWP can go on the inside and the outside of the oppo, may times yesterday he brought the ball on the inside, into midfield, this allowed some movement from say Sissoko to spin out wide to the touchline. He is prepared and capable of taking on the opp, committing them. I've seen KWP in the youth teams taking on the oppo four or 5 times per game, a run of games to build his confidence will I am sure we will see him do this more.
Fourthly, whilst not the fastest, he still a significant upgrade on Tripps in that dept.
Finally, variety. Even when Tripps had a good game you knew what that meant, each one of those rare good games was an identikit the rare other good games. KWP is harder to play against because he has a variety to his game. He's not just going to cross but he can. But he will also look to go down the line, get behind the defence, come inside. There is more to his game, so much more.
*Caveat - we dominated possession, there will be other games where he is tested more, where teams may double up on him and use their wings more.
He's still a young inexperienced player, he has a long way to go and many areas to improve on and will no doubt struggle in some games this season but we genuinely do have the makings of a very good player in KWP. I hope he's sat at the training ground right now doing his recovery with that big old smile on his face rewatching what he did in that game. I hope that fuels his confidence and takes into the next game which will be a big test for him.
But anyone shitting themselves about our RB position I hope you saw yesterday that we did resolve our problem of our RB, WE SOLD HIM.
Last edited:
KWP is a decent player but if he needs experience then he must be sent on loan
Spurs need quality at the back and Wan Bissaka can easily develop into the best right back in the league.. KWP's ceiling is far lower and is at best a squad option even after he fully develops
anyway the window is shut and not much can be done except hope that he doesnt leak many goals
He will get experience by playing regularly for us. Don't like it? Tough, deal with it.
I think he is great going forward and had a good game. I think his real test will be defending against top wingers. He has the pace but we will see if he has the physical and positional sense to become our first choice RB. Aurier will probably be selected against City. Poch has always rotated his full backs from game to game as he expects them to cover a lot of ground.