Levy out?

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Levy Out?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Not sure. On the fence

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Spursdem said:
My love is for Spurs, top to bottom.

Under our current owners I have seen us compete at the elite level of football for the first time in my life.

This return of zilch is bollocks used by those that have a superficial understanding of the glories of football.

First and foremost, I want to see us win football matches. We do that now, and have done in this current era, at a higher level, than at any other time in my lifetime.

That is to be appreciated.
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Yeah, 23 points in 22 games, winning loads of football matches aren't we currently mate?

Under our current owners we have won one trophy in 11 years, clubs that we are apparently "better than" including United, have won multiple trophies in that time period, we have achieved champions league qualification numerous times and a CL final (which we lost) and the reality is, it could have been much different if our owners would have spent at crucial times over the last 2 windows before this, we could have actually had some silverware but they were more concerned with balancing the books and being frugal.

That's the reality, they are happy to keep us where we are because it makes them money.

Sure, when compared to the past this era looks fantastic in terms of league position, no arguing that whatsoever, we are also financially as stable as we have ever been and the club has a bigger brand value but the reality is, we are celebrating mediocrity, we are celebrating the fact that we are no longer a mid-table club and are instead, a club that finishes between 2nd and 5th but with no silverware to show for it but healthy profit margins.

You might consider that success and want to celebrate it, I consider that an improvement over what was utter shit before but still nowhere near good enough for this football club.

Also, when looking at the current state of things we aren't even moving forwards anymore, currently we are right back to where we were and going backwards but we have a shiny new stadium to show for it.

At the end of the day, Poch is failing, Levy is the man who employs him, the state we are currently in is both down to poor management and lack of investment in the playing squad.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Yeah, 23 points in 22 games, winning loads of football matches aren't we currently mate?

Under our current owners we have won one trophy in 11 years, clubs that we are apparently "better than" including United, have won multiple trophies in that time period, we have achieved champions league qualification numerous times and a CL final (which we lost) and the reality is, it could have been much different if our owners would have spent at crucial times over the last 2 windows before this, we could have actually had some silverware but they were more concerned with balancing the books and being frugal.

That's the reality, they are happy to keep us where we are because it makes them money.

Sure, when compared to the past this era looks fantastic in terms of league position, no arguing that whatsoever, we are also financially as stable as we have ever been and the club has a bigger brand value but the reality is, we are celebrating mediocrity, we are celebrating the fact that we are no longer a mid-table club and are instead, a club that finishes between 2nd and 5th but with no silverware to show for it but healthy profit margins.

You might consider that success and want to celebrate it, I consider that an improvement over what was utter shit before but still nowhere near good enough for this football club.

Also, when looking at the current state of things we aren't even moving forwards anymore, currently we are right back to where we were and going backwards but we have a shiny new stadium to show for it.

At the end of the day, Poch is failing, Levy is the man who employs him, the state we are currently in is both down to poor management and lack of investment in the playing squad.
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OHHHHH

So now we're only talking about recent times again?

Not talking about since 2015 when it suits?

You're floundering, son.
 
Spursdem said:
OHHHHH

So now we're only talking about recent times again?

Not talking about since 2015 when it suits?

You're floundering, son.
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What? My argument is consistent, ENIC aren't good for us, irrespective of peaks and lows since their tenure, we will never consistently win silverware under them, currently we will be lucky to win silverware full stop, if anything we are more likely to go backwards as things stand.

Taking arguments out of context so it suits your biased narrative that favours our owners.

Good job.
 
Spursdem said:
Hahaha

This forum cracks me up.
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You've got a blind spot on this issue mate, that's the problem.

I genuinely think you're a good poster but our owners have done a very good job of building a cult like mentality around them, especially Levy.

People so concerned if we lose them it could all go horribly wrong but have never stopped to think if it could actually be better without them...
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
You've got a blind spot on this issue mate, that's the problem.

I genuinely think you're a good poster but our owners have done a very good job of building a cult like mentality around them, especially Levy.

People so concerned if we lose them it could all go horribly wrong but have never stopped to think if it could actually be better without them...
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Yeaaaaaa

It's not me that's blind mate.

Go look at where we finished the year before ENIC got involved and where we've finished for the past 5 years.

If you still thnk there's been no progress, I've not a clue what to say to open our eyes.

Empirical evidence is apparently not enough.
 
Spursdem said:
Yeaaaaaa

It's not me that's blind mate.

Go look at where we finished the year before ENIC got involved and where we've finished for the past 5 years.

If you still thnk there's been no progress, I've not a clue what to say to open our eyes.

Empirical evidence is apparently not enough.
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I didn't say that we haven't seen progress, at no point did I say that, why do you insist on twisting what I say when others can read what I have wrote?

I said that compared to the past we are doing great, or at least have been up until this point in time where we are currently regressing.

But we are still without a trophy for over a decade whilst all the teams we have apparently surpassed have been winning them, not only that but we are celebrating mediocrity, some of our fans think that because that this is the "best we have ever had it" that we shouldn't want more, they are just happy to be amongst the big boys in the CL or be in the top four because everything was shit before ENIC.

It's such a weak defeatist mentality to think that nobody could do better than ENIC and just surrenders the club to an investment company who couldn't care less about success on the pitch in terms of trophies based on the evidence we have at hand.

My opinion is that we could do better, that we could have owners who put success on the pitch before anything else.

The counterargument to that from people is "We could do a Leeds!" which is the biggest lie ENIC supporters tell themselves and it's exactly what our owners want people to think, it's a typical trickle down economics tactic that never holds any weight under scrutiny.

Also, at the rate we are going we may end up going backwards anyway which would make it even clearer that ENIC are failing where it matters.

I put the club first before any manager, owner or player, that's why I don't get attached to them, I made that mistake with Poch and now am regretting it, sometimes we have to be ruthless in order to improve and I think it's time as supporters that we demand more for our club because like I have said, players, managers and owners come and go but the club is forever and I think it deserves more, it deserves to win things.
 
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Incomplete_usernam said:
I didn't say that we haven't seen progress, at no point did I say that, why do you insist on twisting what I say when others can read what I have wrote?

I said that compared to the past we are doing great, or at least have been up until this point in time where we are currently regressing.

But we are still without a trophy for over a decade whilst all the teams we have apparently surpassed have been winning them, not only that but we are celebrating mediocrity, some of our fans think that because that this is the "best we have ever had it" that we shouldn't want more, they are just happy to be amongst the big boys in the CL or be in the top four because everything was shit before ENIC.

It's such a weak defeatist mentality to think that nobody could do better than ENIC and just surrenders the club to an investment company who couldn't care less about success on the pitch in terms of trophies based on the evidence we have at hand.

My opinion is that we could do better, that we could have owners who put success on the pitch before anything else.

The counterargument to that from people is "We could do a Leeds!" which is the biggest lie ENIC supporters tell themselves and it's exactly what our owners want people to think, it's a typical trickle down economics tactic that never holds any weight under scrutiny.

Also, at the rate we are going we may end up going backwards anyway which would make it even clearer that ENIC are failing where it matters.
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Didn't you say we're back to where we started?

The inference being, no progress has been made.

Ok...question then...seeing as you're so certain there are better owners out there...

Care to venture suggestions...
 
Spursdem said:
Didn't you say we're back to where we started?

The inference being, no progress has been made.

Ok...question then...seeing as you're so certain there are better owners out there...

Care to venture suggestions...
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I said that as things currently stand we are going backwards and showing signs of regression on the football side but have a shiny stadium to show for it and a bigger brand than before, is that not true?

Again this argument is disingenuous and a tactic to try and discredit my points by saying "come on then, who should our owners be" basically saying that if I do not have the answer to that question that it invalidates all my criticism of our owners, which is bullshit and something I expected you would do tbh, just proves to me further you have a blind spot.

It's simple, I want owners that put success on the pitch above everything else.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I said that as things currently stand we are going backwards and showing signs of regression on the football side but have a shiny stadium to show for it and a bigger brand than before, is that not true?

Again this argument is disingenuous and a tactic to try and discredit my points by saying "come on then, who should our owners be" basically saying that if I do not have the answer to that question that it invalidates all my criticism of our owners, which is bullshit and something I expected you would do tbh, just proves to me further you have a blind spot.

It's simple, I want owners that put success on the pitch above everything else.
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There are 19 other owners in the Prem for starters you could take a whack at.

It's only ''disingenuous'' because it stumps you.
 
superstaryid said:
I'd say that was bang on.
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The answer is simple, we have owners who put success on the pitch as a priority, who could do that for us? I don't know that's the honest truth but it's what this club needs to achieve real success and become a true force.

Otherwise we can stick with ENIC, the comfortable, safe choice and allow whatever happens to transpire with the knowledge that it will probably not lead to success in terms of silverware if history is an indicator of anything, which it normally is.

We risk becoming Woolwich, new stadium, fuck all to show for it but we might win a trophy once every so often.

I want more for this club than that personally.
 
Spursdem said:
There are 19 other owners in the Prem for starters you could take a whack at.

It's only ''disingenuous'' because it stumps you.
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No, it's disingenous because it's an impossible question to answer, whatever answer I gave wouldn't satisfy you because in your mind we cannot improve upon ENIC.

I have already said, I want owners that put success on the pitch as a priority above everything else.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
No, it's disingenous because it's an impossible question to answer, whatever answer I gave wouldn't satisfy you because in your mind we cannot improve upon ENIC.

I have already said, I want owners that put success on the pitch as a priority above everything else.
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You've just proven it is you, not I, who is blind.

John Henry is the answer you are looking for.

You make assumptions because I defend. Going to the most extreme because you disagree.
 
Spursdem said:
You've just proven it is you, not I, who is blind.

John Henry is the answer you are looking for.

You make assumptions because I defend. Going to the most extreme because you disagree.
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I am arguing against your defending of ENIC because the positions you defend them on are weak and shows you have a blind spot, you aren't looking at the evidence which tells me you're blindly defending them on the basis of them being better than our previous owners.

Ok, so you think John Henry, the current Liverpool owner, is the only person who could do a better job than ENIC? Do you have any more names you want to throw in the hat?

This is why naming owners is a pointless exercise, I was simply saying I want owners who prioritise success on the pitch.

Also, if you think we can improve upon ENIC why aren't you at this point wanting them out?
 
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