I'd argue that sending a text involving the word "chinky" is pretty racist. Unless there's a meaning for that word I'm unaware of?
I know that I wouldn't want him anywhere near my business or my football club.
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Mackay hired by Wigan
- Thread starter Juicy Sushi
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I know that I wouldn't want him anywhere near my business or my football club.
Really?
"How many people do you know that would be in the exact same boat if someone leaked their text messages or, as per this forum or facebook, the jokes they post. The things people say in private, or under the cover of a pseudonym are not necessarily reflective of things they actually believe or mean."
" If someone looked at every text message and email you'd sent your mates/workmates in the last 5 years, would you still apply the same principles?"
"A lot of it is just opinion formed on conjecture (as per normal)"
" (as so far, you're referencing conjecture and unfounded/unproven offences)"
Where did the Daily Mail and the Telegraph get those quotes? The submission Cardiff made to the FA. Mackay does not contest the contents of that submission, as he publically apologized for saying them, therefore admitting the texts are correct and what he really said.
Speech is an action. When you speak, or text, you are doing something. If you don't do things without meaning, then you don't speak without meaning either. He meant those words, because if he didn't, he wouldn't have used them in the first place.
Did he say the things he is alleged to have said? According to Malky Mackay himself, yes. Is the matter being investigated by the FA? Yes. Are the allegations presented to the FA broader than a series of text remarks of a nasty nature? According to all parties, yes.
Am I judging Malky Mackay on anything he hasn't done? He says he said that stuff. He did manage the team (and was rubbish at it), he did buy those players, and he did get hired subsequently by someone who has said that players who receive racial abuse should not fight it.
The fraud allegation will be a matter for the courts. Everything else has been factually established by Mackay and Whellan themselves.
Either those things are ok, or they are not. I think they are not. And I think that passing it off as only football, or only banter are not excuses which are acceptable to make.
Making racist remarks IS racist behaviour. It's not separate from that.
He gets support from the same old boys club that backs others who say the same things. Whelan says the same stuff. Richard Keys says the same stuff. It's not ok for them, it's not ok for Mackay.
Are any of the people he disparaged (or of those ethnic groups) saying he's a good person?
Lovely smileHere's the lady in question
Stop stringing the same bow, I'll make this simple.
You said he was 'taking money' and you said he committed fraud. You have no evidence of that.
The conjecture comment is about your comments of fraud, not the text messages.
Yes.
It doesn't surprise me you have the view you do, as you don't seem to understand what I'm saying and you're dragging it out of context to justify your own mission and/or self justification.
Looks like old Dave Whelan in on the action now!! Attacking the Jews.... he's off the good list now then!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30137728
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30137728
Always thought he was dodgy when he named the stadium after himself!
Glad to know one agent is saying he was nice to Kim, but he didn't actually say the words weren't used. And they still aren't appropriate.
Nothing but banter, nothing to see here...
Yes, it has racist connotations, but there's a history of misunderstanding over the word:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinky
The problem is with education - people say things and often don't understand how offensive it is (sometimes using words as slang and/or affectionate abbreviation), and sometimes people use a word to incite hatred.
Someone could say "Do you want anything from the Chinky" in reference to a takeaway with no harmful intent, and then someone could shout "Stupid Chinky" to an east asian, which is directly abusive and intentionally offensive.
It's often the same with the whole 'Yid' word. Or even the 'n' word (where, apparently, it's only racist if the person saying it isn't black).
People say things to their workmates/friends to sound 'funny' or 'cool' all the time, I witness it often and it makes me uncomfortable, but I wouldn't say that I thought they were racist, just ignorant.
I shudder when people use the phrase 'coloured' in a conversation with me, but I know for a fact that it's an education problem rather than racism.
He's very much of "that" generation thats for sure! no excuse for a guy who has been a very public figure his whole adult life though
In North America, those words are just considered racist full stop. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. The user does not get a monopoly on the choice of meaning. The word has that connotation, it is the one usually intended, and as a result, the word is considered racist. Use in any other sense is not considered erudition, it's willful ignorance.
It's not North America.
In North America you can run around with a gun and call it 'freedom'. Shit like that gets you jailed over here as it's seen as intention.
Gets you jailed here in Canada too for similar.
Point is that it's different cultures. Judging a situation in a country with a different culture to your own is also reasonably ignorant.
Lots of encyclopedias, TV Shows and educational books up until the 70's used all manner of (now considered) offensive terms. Many working class families suffered from lack of education and/or out of date cultural perceptions. As a result, some people only know what they know and consequently lack the education to learn that it's no longer acceptable to use some terms.
Like I said before, I hear older guys (50+ years old) using the term 'coloured' and it gripes me, but I have to accept that they don't mean it offensively, it's just a term that they were brought up using that was 'okay' at that time in life. It'd be different if someone called someone else something offensive to their face, as that would then be racist and there'd be no excuses, but you can't automatically assume people are being racist otherwise the category broadens.
Examples of racism that people use without meaning to sound like 'a racist' are:
Irish jokes (paddy and murphy)
Scottish jokes (references to drugs, obesity and alcohol abuse)
Welsh jokes ('sheep shaggers' and what-not)
That's before we even get into the category of things that spurs fans sing at football matches.
You have been making the argument though, that such language is ok, be it because of their age, or because others have said worse. You feel that although you may not say it yourself, others doing so shouldn't be challenged on it. I fail to see how that's a worthwhile approach. Either it's acceptable or its not. And it's not the Mackay's and Whelan's of England who get to decided that but those the remarks refer to. And they don't feel it is ok.
And I'm quite happy to get into the category of what Spurs fans sing. It's not ok either. We don't get to take umbrage at anti-semetic chants directed at Spurs if we say similarly offensive stuff at others.
I didn't say it was okay, I said I wouldn't condone it, but the over reaction of people saying he should never be allowed to manage again is ridiculous considering the fact that he's yet to be charged.
If he had directly abused a player, i.e. said something to a player with racial intent, then it would be different, but so far there's nothing at all to suggest that his conduct with players reflects what a handful of messages said.
Out of 10,000 messages I'd expect much more for the Daily Mail to chew on if he was actually guilty of being a racist, homophobe or sexist - However I also accept that he has no excuse for saying the things he did.
If he's a bad man for over-paying at £8m for Caulker and £2.5m for Odemwingie then Baldini would need investigating
im suprised Whelan went that whole interview without saying how he broke his leg in a cup final once
Oh dear oh dear oh Dave Whelan... what an upstanding pillar of the North!
...any road oop, if he wants to doth 'is cloth cap t't stereotypes, then he don't need loook n'furrrther than t'owt 'is cobbled street terraced house, t't outdoor privvy, where 'ee keeps 'is homing pigeons an' whippets... nay fookin' Jews t't b'sin fer miles oop there in God's own cuntry... in't it looverly?
faaakin' Northern Monkey!
It was probably the Jews fault!