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Manager Mauricio Pochettino

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mouse said:
Sorry but no. Literally the only teams to have got anything from City this Season (i.e. Liverpool) have pressed them into next week. In fact Bristol City did the same when they played them in the League Cup and gave them a very hard game. City are just better than most teams at playing around it. They are always conscious of the counter and tend to play a 2-3-5 shape when attacking, packing the middle in anticipation of moves breaking down. You could see Delph tucking in to cover when they got forward.

We struggled with consistent intensity when we pressed them last Saturday night and we were nowhere near convincing enough when we were in possession. Dembele was outnumbered in the middle but did slowly grow into the game. The killer blow came when they shifted to a back three and moved Sterling to the middle.
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Except Liverpool were not pressing them high up the pitch all game like we tried to which left the likes of Silva and KdB loads of spaces. At times our midfield was completely empty .

Liverpool in both CL games when they didn't have the ball didn't press their CBs, they were blocking and creating overloads in all spaces where KdB and Silva like to operate and they only pressed high when they instantly lost the ball in the final 3rd.

Real Madrid is probably the only team in Europe capable of outfootballing them because they have the tools to.
 
mouse said:
A lot of criticism aimed at Poch with regard to timing of substitutions, but what i would say is that we've seen us lose two big games from the opposition manger making a tactical change that have resulted in a goal(s) very quickly after the change.

Even the most perceptive and reactive managers are going to struggle to instantly counter formation changes. Especially if the opposition make a change that is unpredictable.

Poch has to see the change, ascertain whether if it will cause problems then decide how he will counter it, relay those instructions to the pitch or if he needs to use a player on the bench get that player to warm up and instigate the sub - all whilst the ball is still in play.

Its very easy to say "he's not reactive" enough. But i think a lot of the time he has faith in the versatility of the players on the pitch and their ability to change shape dynamically as the game develops. He would rather allow them to show if they can handle a change in threat rather than relying on taking a risk on putting a "cold" player in.

Finally (i must make this point at least once a season), a manger takes a risk every time they change a game, a manager who makes a change that obviously wins a game (sub scores the winning goal for example) is hailed as a genius, but get it wrong and unless the sub themselves makes a drastic error then it won't generally be picked up.

If it were up to some of the reactionary posters on here we would see a triple sub at 20 mins unless we where 3-0 up.
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Spot on mate.

The Juventus Wembley game was a classic, so many pundits said Poch didn't change it quickly enough (The fucking ball never went out of play from their first goal to their 2nd! How the fuck can he physically make a change?). It's up to the players on the pitch to adapt on the pitch, this is what they are trained to do, it's the players that have to look for solutions. Had we defended better there would have been no goal scored.
 
mouse said:
A lot of criticism aimed at Poch with regard to timing of substitutions, but what i would say is that we've seen us lose two big games from the opposition manger making a tactical change that have resulted in a goal(s) very quickly after the change.

Even the most perceptive and reactive managers are going to struggle to instantly counter formation changes. Especially if the opposition make a change that is unpredictable.

Poch has to see the change, ascertain whether if it will cause problems then decide how he will counter it, relay those instructions to the pitch or if he needs to use a player on the bench get that player to warm up and instigate the sub - all whilst the ball is still in play.

Its very easy to say "he's not reactive" enough. But i think a lot of the time he has faith in the versatility of the players on the pitch and their ability to change shape dynamically as the game develops. He would rather allow them to show if they can handle a change in threat rather than relying on taking a risk on putting a "cold" player in.

Finally (i must make this point at least once a season), a manger takes a risk every time they change a game, a manager who makes a change that obviously wins a game (sub scores the winning goal for example) is hailed as a genius, but get it wrong and unless the sub themselves makes a drastic error then it won't generally be picked up.

If it were up to some of the reactionary posters on here we would see a triple sub at 20 mins unless we where 3-0 up.
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I like this a lot, very thoughtful post.

A player who can be a bit of an issue for me in this regard is Eric Dier who can be a bit slow to enact the transition from defence to attack, especially when we change shape. It's a frustrating one because he can be very good and has a lot of positive qualities, but I've seen his performance levels as quite unpredictable this season.
 
Guido said:
Spot on mate.

The Juventus Wembley game was a classic, so many pundits said Poch didn't change it quickly enough (The fucking ball never went out of play from their first goal to their 2nd! How the fuck can he physically make a change?). It's up to the players on the pitch to adapt on the pitch, this is what they are trained to do, it's the players that have to look for solutions. Had we defended better there would have been no goal scored.
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It might sound a bit odd considering our squad but I think in the summer we should be looking at a dynamic but quite deep lying midfielder to cover our defence. I'd also like to see Wanyama get more minutes between now and the end of the season.
 
ErikLamela'sHip said:
It might sound a bit odd considering our squad but I think in the summer we should be looking at a dynamic but quite deep lying midfielder to cover our defence. I'd also like to see Wanyama get more minutes between now and the end of the season.
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Wishful thinking perhaps...but Ruben Neves could do that job. Control from deep with his array of passing and positional play. I'm sure there are many like him out there, but his name comes to mind due to his form throughout the season being spoken about in high regard.
 
ErikLamela'sHip said:
It might sound a bit odd considering our squad but I think in the summer we should be looking at a dynamic but quite deep lying midfielder to cover our defence. I'd also like to see Wanyama get more minutes between now and the end of the season.
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I love our options, Wanyama was utterly superb last year, this year his injury has really caused him problems and is nowhere near last years levels. I'm a big Dier fan and love his versatility, he is a key, key player for us (as DM a fit Wanyama is a better DM IMO, but Dier is a better RB and CB than Wanyama). Dembele is a god but acknowledge he will be on the wayne soon, if not already because of persistent injury. And Winks, who I love, isn't their yet, he needs a good run of games but what I want to see from him is he needs to effect games (Wanyama, Dier and Dembele all effect games in their own way). He's still young so it's not an expectation of him yet but he dose need to turn in a handful of games whereby he effects the game through him to be taken seriously, not convinced he has done this at all yet, despite putting in some great performances. He can add a completely different dimension to us, a deep lying playmaker, a Pirlo type if you will.

This role needs a personality, great defensives qualities, breaking up play, covering defence and stopping/slowing breaks. The other personality is for a player that can control the pace/tempo of the game, transition and break the lines with dribbles or passing (maybe both). Don't think there is a player that can cover both/all of these attributes, but Dembele comes closest, which is what makes him so unique. Finally there is a player that brings athleticism, a box to box player that makes late runs, Naby Keita is one of the best players at this. We've got Dele that started off in this role too.

So, such a complex role to fill, usually there is a double pivot that share out those responsibilities but they need to work well together. But most importantly no matter who the personnel is it would be nice to have them all fit.
 
Guido said:
Spot on mate.

The Juventus Wembley game was a classic, so many pundits said Poch didn't change it quickly enough (The fucking ball never went out of play from their first goal to their 2nd! How the fuck can he physically make a change?). It's up to the players on the pitch to adapt on the pitch, this is what they are trained to do, it's the players that have to look for solutions. Had we defended better there would have been no goal scored.
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A huge amount of over simplification in the mainstream media - football and otherwise.

Opinions are either black or white - never grey. It fuels the narrative of conflict and controversy that keeps the machine profitable. Less chance for overlap or a middle ground being reached.

This trickles down to the supporters who lap it up because the opinion will support pre-conceived agendas.

We are all guilty of it to some degree i suppose.
 
If we win the cup and top 4, season is 9/10 (considering 'wembley factor')

If we 'just' get top 4 it will be 6/10

If we get neither it will be hard for Poch to hold core of current team together.
 
Personally, I think he’s taken the club as far as it can go under him - he’s not a winner, and that’s what this squad needs now; the talent is there, but the tactics are not.

I know he’s seen as a Saint amongst fans, but the reality is he’s been more Keegan than Clough.
 
Kalopsia said:
Personally, I think he’s taken the club as far as it can go under him - he’s not a winner, and that’s what this squad needs now; the talent is there, but the tactics are not.

I know he’s seen as a Saint amongst fans, but the reality is he’s been more Keegan than Clough.
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Have you considered the very real possibility it could go backwards without him? Ridiculous comment.
 
I’m not criticizing Poch, there’s no one else in the world I’d rather have. And I’m not saying the late subs are a problem that’s holding us back - what I’d really like is to better understand it.

I’d hypothesize that we’ve made far fewer subs than the average PL club. I’d also hypothesize that our average 1st/2nd subs appearance is probably somewhere around 8 minutes later than the average, probably across the board even if you parsed our specific scenario (i.e. trailing by one goal away). I’d say that the trend is strong enough that it likely discounts any idea that Poch gets caught out without having plans A-Z prepared and players sufficiently warmed up for those.

It’s seems likely to be something ingrained into his coaching ethos, the late sub. I haven’t read his book, not done a deep dive for Poch comments on coaching strategy, but if there’s anyone that could shed light on that I’d love to understand it. It’s fascinating because to me it does seem like a specific ideal that runs somewhat against popular conception.
 
Kalopsia said:
Personally, I think he’s taken the club as far as it can go under him - he’s not a winner, and that’s what this squad needs now; the talent is there, but the tactics are not.

I know he’s seen as a Saint amongst fans, but the reality is he’s been more Keegan than Clough.
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MemphisWill said:
I’d say that the trend is strong enough that it likely discounts any idea that Poch gets caught out without having plans A-Z prepared and players sufficiently warmed up for those.
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The point is that if the opponent changes the game unpredictably; i.e. makes a change to the formation or lineup that hasn't been already considered when the coaching staff have been analyzing the opponents previous games. There is a minimum amount of time required to make adjustments for that in game.

Poch has done it himself a few times in a bid to gain an advantage tactically. Lining up to beat Woolwich on the break in his first or second season comes to mind, when everyone was talking about our "high press", or moving Eriksen to the centre pair - and some not so successful - playing Son at left back against Chelsea.

He certainly has room to improve till he gets to Pep's level of reading the game and changing it to get the win.
 
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