It was our best chance to win the cup with liverpool and city eliminated plus already beaten manu at wembley and just beaten chelsea away.
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Manager Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter WHITE&BLUE
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By having to beat United and likely Chelsea? Sorry but no, which is why I never jumped up and down when the draw came out for the semi-final.
Of the big 6 we are still the most likely to lose a one-off game in my opinion.
It is the last bit for Pochettino and the collective group (whenever and whoever) to overcome.
Unfortunately your above post proves a sad Spursy mentality issue also referred to as "bottling it" or chocking. This comes from the top of the club down to the majority of fans.
CHANGE. HAVE FAITH. BELIEVE. WE CAN DO IT. BE BRAVE. WHO DARES WINS.
If you want to win title and cups, any club has to beat top 6 teams on the way. How did Leicester win the PL, how did Birmingham win the whatever cup, how did Wigan win the FA cup, how did Liverpool win CL 2004. How did Greece and Denmark win the European championship. How did Spurs win FA cup 1991........etc
So you were expecting Millwall in the semi and probably Reading in the final!
The GK decision. A few weeks ago I wanted lloris to play and if Vorm did not like it tough. However lloris's recent errors meant I thought it was a 50-50 call. Lloris's recent form has in some ways been as bad as Kane's. toby is a different matter and I have been calling for his return for some time and after Brighton believed he justified playing.
I've seen many games where Spurs are the most boring team in the PL, playing super slow, ponderous, deliberate. Many times the first 45 mins is a waste of time.
And Klopp, Wenger, Conte & Guardiola receive 100 times better refereeing than do Spurs, who are battling the officials every game while Martin Tyler and usually Alan Smith excuse it or ignore it.
Chelsea & Woolwich players race around the player after their man has DIVED and is acting on the floor to try and get the 'offender' booked or sent off.
Look at Jack Wilshire pulling the shirt of a player for about 20 yards and the player gets sent off for reacting. Alonso nearly broke Shane Long's leg right in front of Mike Dean - no whistle, no FA action.
Spurs see Harry Kane or Son KICKED and nobody sticks up for them, not even the manager.
I've never heard Poch say anything about the bad tackles dished out to his players EVER! Yet Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho did many many times.
And it's being "soft" if you pick your worst goalie just because he played the early rounds and you feeling sorry for him if he was left out in the semis. That is bollocks!
That doesn't mean that we lack passion or drive, nor that Poch specifically has failed in the ability to inspire them.
We are a scary team for many of our opposition and we struggle with how to break a team down when they pack themselves in defensively. This can lead to us being "boring" to watch. I'd argue that United is the most boring team in the PL, and quite possibly the most boring 2nd place team I've ever seen.
Not according to them, and if you tried to state that to a Liverpool fan that would laugh for the next 10 minutes. Unless you have some statistics on the matter, this is purely just your perception.
What's your point? Are you saying that our players should be diving on the ground, yelling at referees over phantom fouls, and acting like cunts? Are you in any way suggesting that we should be more like them? Are these examples of how Poch is failing to "inspire" our team?
As much as it has become a part of the game, I want no part of it at Spurs.
I don't give a fuck what Ferguson, Wenger, or Mourinho do and 90% of the time I think that those statements are embarrassing. Do you want Poch to criticize every tackle made on us, go ranting on the sidelines, or to have our players get into a bust-up every time we get touched?
We can dish it out just fine it seems, but then we need to overreact when we get touched?? Do you remember how we reacted against chelsea last year when the tackles started getting rough?
Poch is the one closest to the players and the inner workings of the team dynamics. He made the decision that he felt was best and it's fine to debate team selections and strategies. I don't see how this shows him being "soft" though.
There were 10 other players out on the pitch from what I remember, but you choose to only focus on Vorm and stretch this line of reasoning to prove Poch is "soft"? Lame.
I agree with the last paragraph of your post.
The rest of it is fucking garbage tbf
Liverpool are diving all the time, Mane, Millner, et al, and Tottenham are being fouled and getting nothing.
You continue to miss my point.
THEY GET 100 TIMES THE REFEREEING OF SPURS. I want the manager or a spokesman to stand up to the cheating that has gone on against Spurs since Sky supported Woolwich, that's 1980. If Spurs players are fouled they must stick together to get the rotten ref to do his job and protect the safety of the players which is his main remit. They don't have to DIVE but if fouled they must get the dirty player punished, not let off to foul again and again.
I saw one match where the ref gave the guy a talking to and showed 3 fingers meaning that was his third and no more. The same guy continued to foul and the ref still didn't book him.
I am sick of seeing Spurs getting cheated and the media covering it up. I can't listen to Marton Tyler anymore. The FA is anti-England. The British press are hinting that Harry Kane, England's no.1 striker, is a LIAR.
I want Spurs to get fair refereeing. I don't want the cheating that Chelsea and Woolwich do, just fairness.
If Tottenham got that you would soon see Spurs challenging for the title more often and running away with it also.
Spurs were 2-0 up and Chelsea started kicking Tottenham. That's what I remember. Mark Clattenburg allowed them to kick so then Spurs did respond. Oh and Spurs players got banned not the other team that started it and started the post-match riot.
I want Poch to sometimes stick up for his players, that is all.
I like Poch and his tactics are really good and Spurs have played some great football. They have also had some dreadful performances like they mentally weren't there, and that has happened too much.
And he made a blunder picking a guy who cannot lace Lloris' boots just because he felt sorry for him. It cost Spurs 2 goals the goalie could have saved from defensive errors by Dembele and Davis, but that's why he is Vorm and cannot even get into Holland.
The same Toby that played in the loss to Chelsea in last years Semi-final, conceded a free kick from which they scored from to go 1-0 up? The same Toby that played in our loss at Utd earlier in the season, who got beaten in the air by Lukkau who flicked the ball onto Martial to score the winner late in the game?
You continue to miss my point.
THEY GET 100 TIMES THE REFEREEING OF SPURS.[/quote]
Do you really think that the only reason I don't agree with you is that I'm missing your point? No, I understand your point, I just think you are wrong.
Despite your obvious (I hope) hyperbole, I don't agree. All teams get the shaft from referees at some point, and sometimes they are the beneficiaries. We are no different.
To what end? Poch, the club, or players get sent off or banned? If a real injustice has been done to us, I trust in the club to take up the appropriate actions with the FA. We can't sit there and criticize Dele for getting wound up by opposing players and doing stupid things, and then complain that we want our players to retaliate in some way.
I also don't want our players to turn into a bunch of whinny cunts either every time they get touched. I want to have pride in our club and our players.
He does and demonstrates it on a regular basis.
Really, it sounds like your true issue isn't so much about Poch, rather the perceived injustices against the club. Take up you issue in the FA or move it to another thread.
Do you honestly believe that Hugo would have saved that first goal? Honestly? He could have possibly done better on the second goal, but like you said he had no help. Any goalkeeper is destined to let in cheap goals when your midfield and defense are giving the ball away cheaply and allowing for open shots directly onto goal.
Just to summarize, you started talking about how Poch hasn't inspired this team, doesn't stick up his players, and is soft. You haven't even been able to defend one of these points yet. Instead you have just now peddled a conspiracy against the club.
You are wrong and this is now boring.
@gobygonk htf can you disagree with that analysis?
Do you think vorm is shit?
Do you think he was at fault for the first goal?
I wasn't saying he had a decent game but deserved his place
Dembele had a bad game, messed around with the ball in a dangerous area and got dispossessed.
Our form since Xmas has been amazing.
Just curious what you don't agree with?
Definitely agree with you about the refereeing. Need to be more tactical. It’s fine to take the high ground but Poch should point out that we are doing so (which I realise undermines the point somewhat) with a view to getting a better rub of the green.
I tend to think PL refereeing is a disgrace anyhow. Nothing to do with their ability to spot fouls & offsides etc but their game management. Surely a ref says to the Capts and Managers at the beginning “Any hit of a dive, over-reaction or injury feign you’re getting booked. Any argument or disrespect coming my way there’s also a yellow”. Wouldn’t take long to buck up ideas.
Also, my biggest bugbear is that fouls are so rarely given UNLESS the player goes down. Efffectively encourages diving.
Anyway......
Love Pochettino - we’re lucky to have him
Oh dear, the melt down already.
Now we want Poch to change his " demeanor" or his post match presser. He needs to go on the attack and belittle refs, decisions, opposition players etc etc.
If people haven't worked out Poch's character by now, they never will. I find it refreshing that at such a young age for a PL Manager, he remains controlled, considerate and polite. He doesnt seek excuses... Thats his way.
No one is above the badge / club, but so long as he is our manager, and continues to deliver results then lets not turn into ArsenalFanTv please.
Personally I find his approach refreshing. He doesnt buy into the busllhit media crap, or play mind games. Its been a great few years being a Spurs fan, more happy than I can remember. Do I want silverware? Shit yeah... I believe that will come and as long as we are on par with the $$$ clubs, and compete in the CL year in year out, then Poch has my support.
Peace from down under
Now we want Poch to change his " demeanor" or his post match presser. He needs to go on the attack and belittle refs, decisions, opposition players etc etc.
If people haven't worked out Poch's character by now, they never will. I find it refreshing that at such a young age for a PL Manager, he remains controlled, considerate and polite. He doesnt seek excuses... Thats his way.
No one is above the badge / club, but so long as he is our manager, and continues to deliver results then lets not turn into ArsenalFanTv please.
Personally I find his approach refreshing. He doesnt buy into the busllhit media crap, or play mind games. Its been a great few years being a Spurs fan, more happy than I can remember. Do I want silverware? Shit yeah... I believe that will come and as long as we are on par with the $$$ clubs, and compete in the CL year in year out, then Poch has my support.
Peace from down under
fwiw, i agree with gobbygonk on the point that I wish Poch would bitch about poor referee'ing a bit more. it's not that I love complaining about refereeing, but that the likes of pool, utd, cheatski, etc seem to get a couple free points every season off of bitching about the refs. take a look at the table this season, and past seasons, and tell me you wouldn't like a couple free points too?
poch does us no service by giving a free pass to a bunch of wank refs, at least some of whom are likely on the take in one way or another...
poch does us no service by giving a free pass to a bunch of wank refs, at least some of whom are likely on the take in one way or another...
Spot on. Poch is a breath of fresh air compared to the histrionics of the other top managers.
I get the emotion in a game but I find the other managers antics embarrassing and cringeworthy. Do their behaviours ever influence a game?
Poch needs to work on his tactical subs and some team selections but he is young and will learn. Being calm and composed helps better decision making, look how well Chris Hughton and Eddie Howe manage their teams.
The media don't like it as they can't run with a dramatic news story like they can with the Liverpool, chavs, city and united managers.
Not really following......I think its ridiculous to want Poch out, but threads like this arent why we let West Ham shaft us in the Carabou, or bottled it against Utd, or let Chelsea stick 4 past us at the same stage last year, or couldnt overtake Leicester.
Its the mentality of the players thats the problem not that of the fans.
Yep but the mentality comes from the manager or the culture of a club. It has to.
So whilst I completely agree that a forum does not determine a club's outcomes on the pitch neither would I accept it is the players' mentality.
Pochettino has and is creating something at the club but he has to ask that bit more of himself and the players. Be more decisive. Show less favouritism. Be careful with dismissive tones about priorities.
Small things but the difference I believe.
For me I think Poch's biggest faults are changes during a game. The plan B accusation is way off in my opinion.
He has developed us to play a 343, 4231and 433 effectively, but rarely his mid game changes have a desired effect.
I dont think his mentality is a problem though, I think he is struggling to keep all players motivated, in this climate of "Im worth more".
Walker, Toby, Rose and Dier have already shown signs that Pochs vision is not shared. Pochs vision is the same as the fans, a romantic one, but certain players dont care about the new ground, they care about money.
Its not trophies, because if they applied themselves and committed to us, they could win trophies here.
Poch also needs to abandon the chess game approach. I cant remember winning a single game playing like that....we need to play to the players strengths and thats pressing and moving the ball.
We tend to pander to "big teams" and show them too much respect, so instead of talking about the elite, we need to just be the elite.
The summer will the most difficult for a while....it will either make us or break us I feel, but this same old same old cycle needs to change either way.