Player Micky van de Ven

[PointToPatrik]

I don't think you necessarily need to exit the entire problem group. I do think you need to exit enough of them, alongside bringing in Poch, and new players with better mentality, to change the culture. Mickey for me has enough abilities that I wouldn't rush to exit him under a new coach, though I take your point.

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My stance is that if you want to get rid of the bad eggs then there can be no sacred lambs.

Micky is also a far more prominent voice in said leadership group than Porro or Bentancur for example. It may sound rough but Micky, Romero and Vic are the guys that you cull to make an example for the rest. Just like Poch did when he took over.

Micky is obviously a very good player but if he's set on leaving and is a proper locker room negative then he needs to sold imo unless the new manager manages to completely win him over.

 

[Tomo]

Which is astounding really, some terrible terrible decision making at this club, I mean that's been the case for decades really but usually we're a bit up and down, this consistent run of poor choices is the longest losing streak for a while though.

It's been so abject that many basic facets of the game seem to have been beyond our players for a while, you can only hope that it's salvageable once a decent coach does come in.

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Not our coaches fault though. Frank didn’t hire himself. A club that went from Pochettino and Conte down to Frank gets all it deserves. We can say well he did ok at Brentford but the backroom coach is doing better, Brentford are another Brighton where the style of play and the scouting is already set. Was watching a Brentford fan explaining why they didn’t dip and basically Frank was just the slightly most important coach there, nothing more, disposable. He went from slightly most important to a full level manager with us so not just a jump in clubs but a jump in roles. That’s a much bigger jump than Igor going from Italy to here. Like taking a middle manager and making them CEO. Question is who did this was it Lange, was it Levy.

 

[PointToPatrik]

Not our coaches fault though. Frank didn’t hire himself. A club that went from Pochettino and Conte down to Frank gets all it deserves. We can say well he did ok at Brentford but the backroom coach is doing better, Brentford are another Brighton where the style of play and the scouting is already set. Was watching a Brentford fan explaining why they didn’t dip and basically Frank was just the slightly most important coach there, nothing more, disposable. He went from slightly most important to a full level manager with us. That’s a much bigger jump than Igor going from Italy to here.

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This. In one of the many leaks after Frank's sacking he was apparently shocked at the amount of work other than just setting tactics and the first 11 that was expected of him. At Brentford everything is automated and delegated. He was completely unprepared for being a "real" manager.

 

[Tomo]

This. In one of the many leaks after Frank's sacking he was apparently shocked at the amount of work other than just setting tactics and the first 11 that was expected of him. At Brentford everything is automated and delegated. He was completely unprepared for being a "real" manager.

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Yeh wasn’t one that discipline was handed by another coach so that motivational aspect was someone’s else job. You can’t delegate that with us how we are set up.

 

[Shadydan]

My stance is that if you want to get rid of the bad eggs then there can be no sacred lambs.

Micky is also a far more prominent voice in said leadership group than Porro or Bentancur for example. It may sound rough but Micky, Romero and Vic are the guys that you cull to make an example for the rest. Just like Poch did when he took over.

Micky is obviously a very good player but if he's set on leaving and is a proper locker room negative then he needs to sold imo unless the new manager manages to completely win him over.

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You can move on the problematic players without damaging the squad in the process, I do think Micky looks mentally checked out at the moment but that’s really been more of an issue this season. In his first two seasons he was fine so there’s still something to work with there and I think he could be brought back onside fairly easily.

What I don’t think is very smart is getting rid of two of your best players in the same window.

 

[Herclueless]

This. In one of the many leaks after Frank's sacking he was apparently shocked at the amount of work other than just setting tactics and the first 11 that was expected of him. At Brentford everything is automated and delegated. He was completely unprepared for being a "real" manager.

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You'd think as part of the interview process that would come up during discussions wouldn't you?

Even if it wasn't something he was capable of coping with, it shouldn't have come as a surprise to him, and if it did, then whoever was doing the legwork of recruiting him at the club has cocked up massively.

 

[Harrier]

My stance is that if you want to get rid of the bad eggs then there can be no sacred lambs.

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Absolutely!

Unfortunately for us, from the outside it would seem that three of the most rotten eggs make up our leadership team.

We need to build a strong, winning culture throughout all aspects of the organisation and any players with negative influence need to be shipped out irrespective of how good they are on their day.

We have far too many young players within the squad and any negative senior pros will just end up setting the wrong example.

 

[Don Pedro]

Anyone who thinks they are too big or too good for the club can leave.

I love VDV. such a talent and he was a big part in us winning the Europa League. I've no doubt he's a top player and will be a big success wherever he goes.

But he needs to look in the mirror. He's captained the team this season to some embarrassing performances. He got sent off and gave away a stupid penalty when we were 1-0 up in his last game. He's been ducking challenges and losing duals all season because he doesn't look arsed. The previous 2 seasons, he's missed atleast 3 months of football due to his hamstrings going. He's been a good player for us but he's not been a top player and we will survive without him. Vuskovic can take his place next season. Kevin Danso might not have half the ability of VDV but he's proved himself to have a better attitude and be more reliable. Higher floor and lower ceiling. Lets not forget VDV had has some disastrous games for us too - losing 4-0 to Newcastle in his first seaosn comes to mind. Isak had him on the floor all game chasing his own tail.

When he's good he's very good. Very high ceiling. But he has let us down plenty of times and it now sounds like he's entering Aubameyang territory where he just simply thinks he's above this club and doesn't have the heart for this relegation battle. He thinks he's above all this and probably feels embarrassed playing for us. Thats fine. Thanks for the Europe League and best of luck in your career. We need players who love this club and will die for the badge regardless of circumstances.

 

[GOAT]

NGL I've really gone off this guy in the last few months

 

[Don Pedro]

You can move on the problematic players without damaging the squad in the process, I do think Micky looks mentally checked out at the moment but that’s really been more of an issue this season. In his first two seasons he was fine so there’s still something to work with there and I think he could be brought back onside fairly easily.

What I don’t think is very smart is getting rid of two of your best players in the same window.

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Hard to know. If Romero and VDV think they are too good for the club and almost embarrassed to be assicated with us in this relegation battle, then maybe we are better off without them.

Yes, they are top players and will be a success elsewhere. But they aren't motivated by this relegation battle. They just look checked out and uninterested. That feeds down to other players. Your best players, your leaders, your captains not interested and sulking. Regularly sulking! We played with fight and passion yesterday without them and we got a point against all the odds. We probably bend over and accept our faith yesterday if they are on the pitch sulking. Dragusin was poor yesterday but watch the sprint he made to get back at the end and the block he put in on the last minute ekitike shot? Thats heart, thats passion, thats desire. Something these 2 have lacked all season.

Selling them both in one window looks awful on paper but it might be what we need to unite this group of players and make them proud and passionate to play for spurs again. Nobody should feel better or bigger than the club. These 2 clearly do.

 

[Shadydan]

Hard to know. If Romero and VDV think they are too good for the club and almost embarrassed to be assicated with us in this relegation battle, then maybe we are better off without them.

Yes, they are top players and will be a success elsewhere. But they aren't motivated by this relegation battle. They just look checked out and uninterested. That feeds down to other players. Your best players, your leaders, your captains not interested and sulking. Regularly sulking! We played with fight and passion yesterday without them and we got a point against all the odds. We probably bend over and accept our faith yesterday if they are on the pitch sulking. Dragusin was poor yesterday but watch the sprint he made to get back at the end and the block he put in on the last second ekitike shot? Thats heart, thats passion, thats desire. something these 2 have lacked all season

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Every good player we've had at this club who feel that they can do better than us mentally check out and sulk, we've had it over the years. We've let them all go and we immediately haven't done any better when they left the club.

 

[Don Pedro]

Every good player we've had at this club who feel that they can do better than us mentally check out and sulk, we've had it over the years. We've let them all go and we immediately haven't done any better when they left the club.

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Personally I'd rather we sold them if they have checked out. If they want out then let them go. Vuskovic can come in next season. We can sign another centre back. Danso looks capable.

 

[Shadydan]

Personally I'd rather we sold them if they have checked out. If they want out then let them go. Vuskovic can come in next season. We can sign another centre back. Danso looks capable.

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You think Lange and co have it in them to land a good'un?

I'm not so sure...

 

[Tomo]

You think Lange and co have it in them to land a good'un?

I'm not so sure...

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This is the entire problem with the club right there.

- Romero and VDV checked out.

- Left with Danso and Vuskovic. Need 1 more plus Byfield.

- Don’t want to take the risk cos the club is to shit to be able to scout and buy a suitable CB.

- get stuck with at least one moody barstard who damages the energy of the squad which affects results.

This club only changes when players who don’t want to be here get sold and ADEQUATE replacements come straight in no excuses like a proper top club with decent leadership.

 

[Notabadsquad]

NGL I've really gone off this guy in the last few months

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Fair play in admitting that.

Bloke has been atrocious and I disagree with all this high ceiling observation.

Decent defender but nothing more. Pacy. Maybe somebody can coax out this so,caled quality.

Many of the other ingredients to top class player are abundantly absent.

Hopefully plays himself into the shop window of the top teams in the last 2 months.

 

[Shadydan]

This is the entire problem with the club right there.

- Romero and VDV checked out.

- Left with Danso and Vuskovic. Need 1 more plus Byfield.

- Don’t want to take the risk cos the club is to shit to be able to scout and buy a suitable CB.

- get stuck with at least one moody barstard who damages the energy of the squad which affects results.

This club only changes when players who don’t want to be here get sold and ADEQUATE replacements come straight in no excuses like a proper top club with decent leadership.

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It’s definitely a problem but the club needs to be smart about it, situations like this only get worse if you let them spiral.

Right now Van de Ven looks disillusioned more than anything as the atmosphere around the club is toxic so it’s not surprising some players are frustrated, however that can change very quickly if the club gets the summer right. Bring in the right manager (someone like Poch) rebuild the culture and suddenly the mood around the place shifts - I don’t see players like VdV staying moody if the club starts moving in the right direction.

It actually reminds me a bit of Vertonghen, he’d pretty much checked out before Poch arrived but once the environment changed everything reset.

You don’t always need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, sometimes fixing the direction of the club fixes the players too.

 

[CJJ]

This is the entire problem with the club right there.

- Romero and VDV checked out.

- Left with Danso and Vuskovic. Need 1 more plus Byfield.

- Don’t want to take the risk cos the club is to shit to be able to scout and buy a suitable CB.

- get stuck with at least one moody barstard who damages the energy of the squad which affects results.

This club only changes when players who don’t want to be here get sold and ADEQUATE replacements come straight in no excuses like a proper top club with decent leadership.

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We've still got Phillips, Dragusin, Dorrington etc.

Not saying that's the "right" outcome, but we've been a bit over-stacked for CBs and it stands to remain that we're not short. Ideally Drag moves back to Serie A in place of a suitable replacement, but I think consolidating Romero + VdV into one defender that can stay in defence and be fully fit would be an overall improvement for the squad, and look at whether we have a younger CB to rotate/cover

 

[Harrier]

This is the entire problem with the club right there.

- Romero and VDV checked out.

- Left with Danso and Vuskovic. Need 1 more plus Byfield.

- Don’t want to take the risk cos the club is to shit to be able to scout and buy a suitable CB.

- get stuck with at least one moody barstard who damages the energy of the squad which affects results.

This club only changes when players who don’t want to be here get sold and ADEQUATE replacements come straight in no excuses like a proper top club with decent leadership.

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Yep the recruitment team is woeful but you don’t keep bad eggs because you fear you cannot recruit suitable replacements.

You upgrade the recruitment team to ensure you can scout and acquire the right players.

Anything else is a complete fallacy.

 

[Shadydan]

Yep the recruitment team is woeful but you don’t keep bad eggs because you fear you cannot recruit suitable replacements.

You upgrade the recruitment team to ensure you can scout and acquire the right players.

Anything else is a complete fallacy.

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'Upgraded' from Hitchin to Paratici to Lange, what do you think happens next?

 

[Steve007]

Last season I'd say you were crazy to consider selling VdV. That goal line clearance in the Europa final will be long remembered. As will his pacy runs (back and forward).

He's highly marketable. There would be no shortage of takers and his contract means we can still get a decent return.

I'd love to keep him, if he wanted to stay. But his performances this season aren't indicating that's the case.

No player is bigger than the Club. If they don't want to be here, move them on.