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Oh FFS said:
No I’m not. I’m talking about prices not being excessive, which the current season tickets are.
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If they are all selling how are they excessive? is a Ferrari excessive or good value for the money? Of course that all depends on your personal circumstance ...

A £20 ticket is excessive for a man with a fiver ... a £2,200 ticket is cheap for a man with millions ... like everything in life it's all relative ....

The club is not responsible for 'social welfare' it's a business and has set it's prices at what the whole market can afford, they've offered concessions on more seats than before .... what else could they do?

If they offered 30,000 tickets at £500 then the current season ticket holders, the ones who in the main are paying the new prices, would have bought them all anyway .... how would this benefit the less well off? none of the 'cheap' tickets would reach the later phases or go on general sale .... so who gains? and just how much would the club have lost to change almost nothing?

Taking the 'cheap ticket' argument to the extreme, would the idea be that every potential season ticket buyer gets means tested? how else can the club tell what they can afford? seriously how the feck would that work ....

The Trust can stand up for it's members who feel priced out, that's their job, but just what's their solution?

I'll repeat the argument that so many don't want to hear ... the club have priced tickets at what the market can afford (in fact they could have gone higher) the take-up is above what they expected, ergo they got it right ...

Yes some people can't afford it, but that's always been the case nothing's changed .... football has not been the cheap 3pm Saturday afternoon pastime for the 'common man' for thirty years .... just wishing it was and shouting loudly about the 'mean old owners' won't change reality ....

Truth is some 80% of the population probably can't afford to go to football every week, the tickets are too expensive, travel is too expensive, catering is too expensive, with games played at stupid o'clock on dates that change at the whim of the paymasters (TV) who can plan for that?

So in reality who can buy season tickets? Only those with a very decent disposable income, drop the tickets by 50% and I'll pretty much guarantee it will be the same original 30,000 season ticket holders that buy them, the same people from the 50,000 on the waiting list that buy the rest ... in the end the low/high price of the tickets will make no significant difference as to who buys them ... the proof of the pudding is as they say in the eating .... and so far the fans can't eat these tickets fast enough .....

If someone wants to put up a social engineering argument that would ensure cheap tickets would only go to those who deserved them ... then go on give it a go ....
 
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BangkokSpud said:
If they are all selling how are they excessive? is a Ferrari excessive or good value for the money? Of course that all depends on your personal circumstance ...

A £20 ticket is excessive for a man with a fiver ... a £2,200 ticket is cheap for a man with millions ... like everything in life it's all relative ....

The club is not responsible for 'social welfare' it's a business and has set it's prices at what the whole market (not just the minority) can afford .... what else could they do?

If they offered 30,000 tickets at £500 then the current season ticket holders, the ones who in the main are paying the new prices, would have bought them all anyway .... how would this benefit the less well off? none of the 'cheap' tickets would reach the later phases or go on general sale .... so who gains? and just how much would the club have lost to change almost nothing?

Taking the 'cheap ticket' argument to the extreme, would the idea be that every potential season ticket buyer gets means tested? how else can the club tell what they can afford? seriously how the feck would that work ....

The Trust can stand up for it's members who feel priced out, that's their job, but just what's their solution?

I'll repeat the argument that so many don't want to hear ... the club have priced tickets at what the market can afford (in fact they could have gone higher) the take-up is above what they expected, ergo they got it right ...

Yes some people can't afford it, but that's always been the case nothing's changed .... football has not been the cheap 3pm Saturday afternoon pastime for the 'common man' for thirty years .... just wishing it was and shouting loudly about the 'mean old owners' won't change reality ....

Truth is some 80% of the population probably can't afford to go to football every week, the tickets are too expensive, travel is too expensive, catering is too expensive, with games played at stupid o'clock on dates that change at the whim of the paymasters (TV) who can plan for that?

So in reality who can buy season tickets? Only those with a very decent disposable income, drop the tickets by 50% and I'll pretty much guarantee it will be the same 30,000 season ticket holders that buy them, the same people from the 50,000 on the waiting list that buy the rest ... in the end the low/high price of the tickets will make no real difference ... the proof of the pudding is as they say in the eating .... and so far the fans can't eat these tickets fast enough .....

If someone wants to put up a social engineering argument that would ensure cheap tickets would only go to those who deserved them ... then go on give it a go ....
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When Poch goes the ground will be half empty within a year - probably less. I remember when we couldn’t sell out the league cup game against woolwich only 3 years ago in a 36,000 seat stadium. The club has left no room for manoeuvre.
 
Joe Clash said:
When Poch goes the ground will be half empty within a year - probably less. I remember when we couldn’t sell out the league cup game against woolwich only 3 years ago in a 36,000 seat stadium. The club has left no room for manoeuvre.
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You make a very good point Joe ... charging 'top EPL prices' means you need to be a 'top EPL team' .... just look at how cheap West Ham have had to go to fill their running track ....

ENIC's gamble (and it's a billion pound gamble) is that they can maintain Spurs at the top level, indeed they must. To do that they will have to compete on salary, transfer fees, facilities the whole works ... pretty sure they know this and the evidence seems to show they are good long term planners ... but only time will tell

One thing we do know, the feckin' ground is the dog's dangles, even 70% finished it looks feckin' fantastic ....
 
Joe Clash said:
When Poch goes the ground will be half empty within a year - probably less. I remember when we couldn’t sell out the league cup game against woolwich only 3 years ago in a 36,000 seat stadium. The club has left no room for manoeuvre.
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Couldn’t sell out the EL games midweek either.

But ENIC are positioning themselves in a great place to sell the club if they need to.

Any future buyer will see that they can make money, our fans are prepared to pay top dollar and the waiting list exists to sustain a decent churn rate over a few seasons.
 
SpursUltra said:
Couldn’t sell out the EL games midweek either.

But ENIC are positioning themselves in a great place to sell the club if they need to.

Any future buyer will see that they can make money, our fans are prepared to pay top dollar and the waiting list exists to sustain a decent churn rate over a few seasons.
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Not sure ‘our’ fans are willing to pay top dollar, but tourists are. I don’t like the way it’s going. I think we’ll end up with a passive, quiet stadium. I’m only a humble member these days and to be honest there’s a better atmosphere in the pub. I haven’t enjoyed the past two seasons going to games - sit down, stand up, do this, do that. I won’t renew my membership next season and I’m not particularly interested in seeing the new ground in person. I liked the old place.
 
Joe Clash said:
Not sure ‘our’ fans are willing to pay top dollar, but tourists are. I don’t like the way it’s going. I think we’ll end up with a passive, quiet stadium. I’m only a humble member these days and to be honest there’s a better atmosphere in the pub. I haven’t enjoyed the past two seasons going to games - sit down, stand up, do this, do that. I won’t renew my membership next season and I’m not particularly interested in seeing the new ground in person. I liked the old place.
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5 separate guys I have bumped into last weeks all phase 1-2-3 ST holders - they have bought west lower, west upper and east upper.
So yes our fans are buying at those prices.

May not be ecstatic about it but they are prepared to pay it. And with 60k on the list again we can afford to churn 5k a year (which is very high) and still continue to sell STs.

Crazy times - those 1882 tickets will be the ultimate in football tourism IMHO.
 
SpursUltra said:
5 separate guys I have bumped into last weeks all phase 1-2-3 ST holders - they have bought west lower, west upper and east upper.
So yes our fans are buying at those prices.

May not be ecstatic about it but they are prepared to pay it. And with 60k on the list again we can afford to churn 5k a year (which is very high) and still continue to sell STs.

Crazy times - those 1882 tickets will be the ultimate in football tourism IMHO.
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Fair enough. I’ve had enough though. Not the prices, just the lack of atmosphere. It’s hardly going to get better is it?
 
Joe Clash said:
Fair enough. I’ve had enough though. Not the prices, just the lack of atmosphere. It’s hardly going to get better is it?
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You can't know that ...

A 17,000 home end, that should work ...
A stadium designed with good acoustics (all about reverberation apparently) that should work ...
A 90% take up of the previous fan base, that should work ...
20,000 new fans who've been on waiting lists for a decade, that should work ...

Sure football is not the same 'animal' passion it was 50 years ago, but don't give up hope just yet .....
 
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Off topic Joe Clash Joe Clash but your latest profile pic is cracking me up.

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Such a shame that the excitement of moving into new stadium has been completely pushed aside by the pricing argument. This could have been avoided by just making the tickets behind the goals a tad cheaper and moving the 1882 seats elsewhere.
 
Nick "Trevor" Sharp said:
I think the argument is less "Pay it and shut up" vs "No one should be priced out", I think it's more a disagreement over whether these prices are reasonable or not.

As I said before I think they're too high, especially the South upper blocks, but I don't think they're disgustingly extortionate either.
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You are right there Nick. Old WHL, North and South cheaper, West expensive, East not as expensive but mainly because of those silly pillars (otherwise it would have been more I'm guessing).

New WHL, West and East were always going to be more expensive because generally deemed to be the best sight lines and especially now with the same uninterrupted view etc. North and South should have been cheaper and for the most part are but things like 1882 in the middle of the south do throw it all out a bit. The way the chat went before the pricing came out about the new south stand being our new home end, a 'white wall' etc. Just feels like its been ruined a bit by the 1882 block in the middle and general price increase that has made people think twice about going there.

In an ideal world we would have cheaper prices and be encouraging more children/young adults in to watch with prices that they can afford. I'd like to see the young adult concession the same as the OAP one. Unfortunately though money is everything now (especially in the EPL).
 
The other thing I don't see people acknowledging is that season tickets selling out this season doesn't make this a good idea, and nobody tried to claim they wouldn't. Rather, it could be a long-term problem because of the demographics change you'll see. Fewer families, for a start, when a Dad going with his two kids behind the goal costs £2,000 compared to less than half that even at most other top clubs in England. Fewer young people. More middle-class, fairly high-income.

Now before anyone starts, I'm not saying these people are any less Yids than the rest of us. But there are differences. They're more likely, for instance, to move abroad in the future, to stop going as much when they have a family, and in some cases to stop going if we're not successful since they have access to so many other hobbies too. Inevitably a bad few years leads to lower crowds. If we've priced people out, then even lowering the prices won't attract them back - the next generation simply won't be there.

The scary part is that people's idea of a bad few years now is 5th or 6th, not midtable. And even with the stadium we'll only be the 6th richest club in England. We have to overachieve massively to be in the top 4 every year, and yet we're setting ourselves up for that to be a minimum expectation rather than an ambition.
 
Mrs Perryman said:
Such a shame that the excitement of moving into new stadium has been completely pushed aside by the pricing argument. This could have been avoided by just making the tickets behind the goals a tad cheaper and moving the 1882 seats elsewhere.
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This!

I've renewed my ST but just feel flat, stoped looking at the latest pictures and going on SSC. The excitement has already gone, when prior to the prices becoming available I've never been so excited about something happening to our club than the new stadium. Hope this feeling changes and there are a number of months away where it might get peaked again but right now it's the thought of going back to Tottenham that's exciting, the stadium is just a side show unfortunately.
 
Guido said:
This!

I've renewed my ST but just feel flat, stoped looking at the latest pictures and going on SSC. The excitement has already gone, when prior to the prices becoming available I've never been so excited about something happening to our club than the new stadium. Hope this feeling changes and there are a number of months away where it might get peaked again but right now it's the thought of going back to Tottenham that's exciting, the stadium is just a side show unfortunately.
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I'm not going to even look at where I'm going to sit until the weekend before the 8th phase opens up.....what's the point of getting my hopes up until I know what availability is left?
 
94Spurs94 said:
The other thing I don't see people acknowledging is that season tickets selling out this season doesn't make this a good idea, and nobody tried to claim they wouldn't. Rather, it could be a long-term problem because of the demographics change you'll see. Fewer families, for a start, when a Dad going with his two kids behind the goal costs £2,000 compared to less than half that even at most other top clubs in England. Fewer young people. More middle-class, fairly high-income.

Now before anyone starts, I'm not saying these people are any less Yids than the rest of us. But there are differences. They're more likely, for instance, to move abroad in the future, to stop going as much when they have a family, and in some cases to stop going if we're not successful since they have access to so many other hobbies too. Inevitably a bad few years leads to lower crowds. If we've priced people out, then even lowering the prices won't attract them back - the next generation simply won't be there.

The scary part is that people's idea of a bad few years now is 5th or 6th, not midtable. And even with the stadium we'll only be the 6th richest club in England. We have to overachieve massively to be in the top 4 every year, and yet we're setting ourselves up for that to be a minimum expectation rather than an ambition.
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This is exactly my thought too. It’s my biggest gripe with the pricing. It doesn’t matter right now because there’s plenty of demand with the current demographic of the fans. However, extrapolate that 10 years down the line and where does the new blood come from? If the younger generations aren’t hooked by then they won’t be buying tickets to replace the current middle agers who have drifted for whatever reason.
It’s a dangerous long term strategy in my eyes.
 
Rocket said:
This is exactly my thought too. It’s my biggest gripe with the pricing. It doesn’t matter right now because there’s plenty of demand with the current demographic of the fans. However, extrapolate that 10 years down the line and where does the new blood come from? If the younger generations aren’t hooked by then they won’t be buying tickets to replace the current middle agers who have drifted for whatever reason.
It’s a dangerous long term strategy in my eyes.
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Makes me think ENIC are planning to sell within a couple of years while things still look as good as they do right now. I don't believe for a moment they're naive enough to think they can keep us in the top 4 in perpetuity and winning the occasional trophy while balancing the books, or that the stadium will continue to be full if they don't.
 
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