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Management Player Power

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Jaynola said:
Valid question and definitely an issue that needs addressing. First, we gotta have the weakest leadership group known to man. I mean, it was already shaky at the knees with Hugo, Dier and Kane...but with Vic, Biss & Sonny? Blimey.

That said, the main problem this once great club of ours has had for the past 25 years is the excessive power the chairman has and, mainly, that weak ass always-the-bridesmaid-never-the-bride culture he's instilled from day one. The lads probably got a Rolex engraved "Carabao Cup semi-finalists 2025".
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Lloris and Kane lead Spurs to their only CL final ever (so far) and overachieved season after season in the EPL by challenging for the title a few times. Kane captained England to the Euro finals 2024 and Lloris captained France to a WC win. What more did you expect from Kane and Lloris?
There is only so much a captain/vice captain can do, they can't win games by themselves.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Even then it depends on the manager to some degree. Doubt any player at Real could turn on Zidane and get away with it.

But fully agree with what you said first. Players at small time clubs know they can outlast the manager. Top clubs that shit won’t fly because a winning team and winning culture is more important than any player.

It’s why Fergie didn’t care about moving Beckham or Ronaldo.
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Which is why it's not as easy to be a head-coach at a top club as many think it is.
Yes, those head-coach have access to some of the best players around but they also have to deal with star egos and their ego-centric behaviour towards the head-coach as well towards each others.
Some of the best ever managers/head-coaches - like Fergie, Clough, Shankley, Sir Bill, Zidane, Conte - were "ruthless" towards players they didn't "like". And it works as long as they get results.
 
Pathfinder said:
Which is why it's not as easy to be a head-coach at a top club as many think it is.
Yes, those head-coach have access to some of the best players around but they also have to deal with star egos and their ego-centric behaviour towards the head-coach as well towards each others.
Some of the best ever managers/head-coaches - like Fergie, Clough, Shankley, Sir Bill, Zidane, Conte - were "ruthless" towards players they didn't "like". And it works as long as they get results.
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1000%

And you can see the difference between this club and Liverpool in terms of culture.

Slopp came in from the Dutch league, not exactly a breeding ground for successful Prem coaches. He straight away made a point with a very important senior player in TAA. He dropped him, then subbed him on 60 mins several times. You could see the dissent from TAA in his body language and to make it an even bigger test, Liverpool were playing very dull football to start the season.

contrast that with the start of Conte's first full season and Jamie Carragher using his platform to tell Spurs fans that Conte's results were "unsustainable" and we were already seeing stories of players not being overly happy about Conte's brutal pre-season and double training sessions where players were running however many KMs on the day before games.

Right now we are a club that has fanbase that is very susceptible to negative narratives about coaches and in reality the only one in recent years who was able to survive the negative doom loop was Poch. But it was also the end of Poch where we started to see the player power stories start in the media leaks about being unhappy with his tactics and training etc. Once he got fired instead of being able to replace spine of the squad, the culture has persisted ever since.
 
_mehstg said:
I think some of the players are not "rushing" back from these injuries but can't decide if it's because of Ange, the state of the club, the toxic atmosphere, combo of all of these. We haven't had a proper leader at this club since Mabbutt. He wouldn't be putting up with this bollocks. He'd go out there patched up week in week out wearing a mask. You had to drag him off the field.
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You could make a case for Ledley in a similar sense too. A proper captain
 
CarrieFi said:
You could make a case for Ledley in a similar sense too. A proper captain
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And Ledley never once felt entitled to pick and choose which manager he wanted to put his body on the line for. Proper club legend.

Kane as well just got on with it under every manager. Never quit on one of them no matter how rough things were. He trained and showed up in games.

Probably something to glean from that in the value if having academy players as leaders.
 
Pathfinder said:
Lloris and Kane lead Spurs to their only CL final ever (so far) and overachieved season after season in the EPL by challenging for the title a few times. Kane captained England to the Euro finals 2024 and Lloris captained France to a WC win. What more did you expect from Kane and Lloris?
There is only so much a captain/vice captain can do, they can't win games by themselves.
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CL final was a fluke and really, we never genuinely challenged for the title...soon as it was within touching distance, the boys crumbled & cried.

Harry & Hugo did well at international level cause they had proper talent around them, teammates with proper nutsacks. And managers who've forgotten more about football than the fat twat will ever know. Heck, even the utter muppets at the FA are more clued up than Levy.

Don't change the fact they failed at Spurs, they got used to (and accepted) the taste of defeat after losing what...100+ games each? Tough they are far from being the main culprits.

Euro 2016, Portugal reach the final vs France in Paris...the Portos have a weaker squad, CR7 goes off injured after bare minutes...look what he did next. Portugal don't bag the trophy if he's not there on the touchline guiding his teammates, shouting at them etc. That's the difference having a proper elite leader can make.
 
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