You confuse a business plan with your gloomy imagination ... they are not the same thing ....
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Management Poch sacked
- Thread starter Stanley
- Start date
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
You confuse a business plan with your gloomy imagination ... they are not the same thing ....
So you want to buy someone proven with PL experience but also add please god don't get Mourinho. I get he's a cunt but he's the exact thing you said you wanted two sentences later.
If you take the average increase in value across the EPL it's around a multiple of 4 ... Spurs is a multiple of well over 10 ... so no it is not similar.
No argument all clubs have massively benefited from TV and EPL revenue increases but we are so far outside the norm that you have to give credit to the owners for taking the opportunity to move the club from mid-table mediocrity to elite level ...
On the pitch in 2000 we were ranked 90th in the UEFA coefficient, level with West Ham, today we are ranked 12th ...
How you can't accept that as a success driven by our owners is very hard to fathom ....
OK, they're not mutually exclusive, though. i want a proven PL manager that is not Mourinho. Is that better?
I wonder if you struggle with filters on comparison websites....
But, anyway, I've changed my mind. I think Mourinho might be good. I just found out we sacked Poch, who I loved and we're going to get Mourinho, who I don't love. i've been watching some vids of him and reading other's thoughts and now I'm feeling a bit more positive and less like a whiney bitch.
Last edited:
Mourinho is a done deal.
Please say it ain’t so
Hey man, you stipulated to the gloomy outlook.
It could just as easily be that this move represents Levy looking to kick the club into a new gear with a manager he trusts to utilize the massively increased financial resources at the club.
I wouldn't have the same faith in Mourinho, but that concept would fit the business plan.
Managers come and go - the business plan remains - loved Poch and what he brought, will support whoever comes next, Mourinho would be great just in terms of the statement by the club in appointing him ... but whoever it is they will just be a cog in the bigger picture ... results matter of course they do, but the management of the business in the end matters more. Just ask Leeds, Portsmouth, or Bury and all the rest who pissed away their futures through bad business management.
I'm a pretty wordy guy, but I lack the words to express my contempt for this line of argument. Just contemptuous, lazy, knowing deceit.
First of all, let’s acknowledge that Poch took over a squad in crisis and elevated them to regular top 4 and a champions league final
Where did to go wrong?
Poch’s system was predictable and very demanding on the squads fitness. We saw some excellent performances; but we also saw what happened when the squad go tired. There was no ‘2nd system’. By February the squad had burnt out. We had lost the elegance of Mousa in midfield, Kane got injured and our older players were exhausted.
But Poch did wonders with our youth players right?
The myth that Poch was able to develop younger players seems disproven. Jannsen, GKN were pretty much disregarded by Poch and never given a chance. – Sanchez and Alli have gone backwards under Poch, Bentaleb and Mason; who were an excellent partnership under Sherwood were disregarded by Poch. The only players from our youth team that have come into the squad over his tenure are Skipp, KWP (barely any playing time) and Winks. Kane of course is the stand out. Brought in under Sherwood and shined under Poch.
But we didn’t buy any players for 2 transfer windows!
And Man City only brought 1; who barely played.
Should Poch have been given more time?
Had we not made top 4 he would have been gone in the summer. Had we not made the ECL final I also suspect he would have been gone in the summer. Its clear that he was given extra time to put things right after the summer window where we spent 170m on players. Clearly those targets were not met and this international break was probably the deadline.
Its clear that Poch could not get the best out of the squad at his disposal. It’s a lot easier to change the coach than change the 30 or so players in the squad.
Mourinho?
Well, he has attended a number of Spurs games this season. This leads me to believe that Poch knew the writing was on the wall after the summer and was fighting to save his job.
If he is coming in, he will have identified 1 or 2 players that he wants. It makes me wonder if Dybala was on his list. (just as Liverpool signed Firmino before Klopp arrived – get me this player and I will join).
Ronaldo seems unhappy at Juventus, get it done Levy
Ok, one step at a time!!
Where did to go wrong?
Poch’s system was predictable and very demanding on the squads fitness. We saw some excellent performances; but we also saw what happened when the squad go tired. There was no ‘2nd system’. By February the squad had burnt out. We had lost the elegance of Mousa in midfield, Kane got injured and our older players were exhausted.
But Poch did wonders with our youth players right?
The myth that Poch was able to develop younger players seems disproven. Jannsen, GKN were pretty much disregarded by Poch and never given a chance. – Sanchez and Alli have gone backwards under Poch, Bentaleb and Mason; who were an excellent partnership under Sherwood were disregarded by Poch. The only players from our youth team that have come into the squad over his tenure are Skipp, KWP (barely any playing time) and Winks. Kane of course is the stand out. Brought in under Sherwood and shined under Poch.
But we didn’t buy any players for 2 transfer windows!
And Man City only brought 1; who barely played.
Should Poch have been given more time?
Had we not made top 4 he would have been gone in the summer. Had we not made the ECL final I also suspect he would have been gone in the summer. Its clear that he was given extra time to put things right after the summer window where we spent 170m on players. Clearly those targets were not met and this international break was probably the deadline.
Its clear that Poch could not get the best out of the squad at his disposal. It’s a lot easier to change the coach than change the 30 or so players in the squad.
Mourinho?
Well, he has attended a number of Spurs games this season. This leads me to believe that Poch knew the writing was on the wall after the summer and was fighting to save his job.
If he is coming in, he will have identified 1 or 2 players that he wants. It makes me wonder if Dybala was on his list. (just as Liverpool signed Firmino before Klopp arrived – get me this player and I will join).
Ronaldo seems unhappy at Juventus, get it done Levy
Ok, one step at a time!!
Poch punched above his weight for 5 years with us.
Can't believe he's gone.
Maureen won't last without backing.
If Levy needed to back anyone it was Poch.
Here we go again.
COYS.
Maybe you lack words because you're ignorant? have you even considered that possibility?
Continually putting managers and players ahead of running a sound business - in the real world you wouldn't last five minutes ... the problem with being ignorant is sometimes you just don't realise you're talking shit - here's a big hint - your posts are full of it.
Yup here we go again - that's how football works.
Poch punched above his weight until he was given the resources to move up another gear, last summer he kept 90% of his squad and gained 100m of new players - then fairly dramatically he failed ... appointing Mourinho is a statement we couldn't have made five years ago, will it work? Who knows but his track record isn't bad ...
However he has to beat Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Woolwich and Utd that's a bloody big ask .... we will all expect him to achieve trophies but the odds are not in his favour, even with Levy's full backing.
I'll preface my post echoing what others have said about it feeling sad even if it's what some of us had hoped for. I'll forever be grateful to Poch for the last 5 years and especially that night in Amsterdam. That being said however, I think a large part of our fan base get too wrapped up with individual people. Ultimately, we are Tottenham Hotspur football club and we will always be bigger than one person.
Poch has delivered some great moments over his 5 years but unfortunately nothing tangible (silverware). Yes, he has worked on a smaller budget than some clubs but I don't think he's been completely screwed over by Levy. He inherited some very, very good players, has bought some good ones but also overseen purchases of a lot of rubbish. He also has a management style that'll work wonders with young, hungry players and that is something we are not seeing the benefits of anymore, Harry Kane's pressing being a perfect example of this as well as Dele and Eriksen's regression over the past 12 months. We talk about an ageing squad in need of an overhaul but we're not a squad full of players in their mid-thirties, we're seeing serious burnout or lack of commitment from players that should be in their peak in their late-twenties. Why? Poch's infamous double training? Not being smart when it comes to our players playing for their countries?
A squad with a core of Lloris, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Toby, N'Dombele, Dele, Eriksen, Son, Lucas and Kane should not be averaging 1 point per game over 25 games with no away win in 10-11 months. That's simply not acceptable for players and a manager that are all earning £80k+ per week. It would be slightly different if performances were good but we've just been outplayed by a newly promoted Sheffield United at home ffs. Something has to change unfortunately and it's a lot easier and cheaper to switch manager.
My final point is just because Poch is the best I've seen in my lifetime doesn't make him invincible in the role and we should always be prepared to upgrade if results are not good enough. We as fans should be willing to say thanks to Poch for taking us to a new level but we need someone else that has a plan B in matches and that is going to stop us leaking goals when we score first to take us to an even higher level. Improvement can be continual, let's not just accept something because we feel a bit of gratitude to the bloke as after all, he would've been off if we had won the CL final (despite claiming he wanted to build a Wenger style legacy at Spurs).
Poch has delivered some great moments over his 5 years but unfortunately nothing tangible (silverware). Yes, he has worked on a smaller budget than some clubs but I don't think he's been completely screwed over by Levy. He inherited some very, very good players, has bought some good ones but also overseen purchases of a lot of rubbish. He also has a management style that'll work wonders with young, hungry players and that is something we are not seeing the benefits of anymore, Harry Kane's pressing being a perfect example of this as well as Dele and Eriksen's regression over the past 12 months. We talk about an ageing squad in need of an overhaul but we're not a squad full of players in their mid-thirties, we're seeing serious burnout or lack of commitment from players that should be in their peak in their late-twenties. Why? Poch's infamous double training? Not being smart when it comes to our players playing for their countries?
A squad with a core of Lloris, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Toby, N'Dombele, Dele, Eriksen, Son, Lucas and Kane should not be averaging 1 point per game over 25 games with no away win in 10-11 months. That's simply not acceptable for players and a manager that are all earning £80k+ per week. It would be slightly different if performances were good but we've just been outplayed by a newly promoted Sheffield United at home ffs. Something has to change unfortunately and it's a lot easier and cheaper to switch manager.
My final point is just because Poch is the best I've seen in my lifetime doesn't make him invincible in the role and we should always be prepared to upgrade if results are not good enough. We as fans should be willing to say thanks to Poch for taking us to a new level but we need someone else that has a plan B in matches and that is going to stop us leaking goals when we score first to take us to an even higher level. Improvement can be continual, let's not just accept something because we feel a bit of gratitude to the bloke as after all, he would've been off if we had won the CL final (despite claiming he wanted to build a Wenger style legacy at Spurs).
