• The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Management Roberto De Zerbi

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Strawman?



Obviously but we're talking about just one more game.



Porro coming in field is fine and it's working, what we lack for deep passing he is providing it, you don't want Porro stuck on the wing in this team when he is arguably the best progressive passer in the side, all well and good saying that you want the full backs to stay wide but you're not going to progress the ball very well...i.e Frank ball.



Pointless changing the system now, it's what it is - this system has allowed us to be even within a chance of surviving and we are winning the xg battle more often than not, it means the issue is down to personnel, not the system.
A part of your second from last paragraph reads like you think not having inverted fullbacks in football is a quirk of Thomas Frank's. I don't remember our club having inverted fullbacks before Postecoglou was manager.

Personally I don't see how it's any better for Porro to pass the ball forward coming inside, than passing it forward from the wing, If that's not the case then why not just put Porro in the midfield to start with, and play Spence at RB, then we can have Porro's passing from inside, and Spence using the wing.

I know none of this is going to happen and De Zerbi isn't going to risk changing much now, I'm just stating Porro can be Porro in the midfield if that's where we need him.
 
A part of your second from last paragraph reads like you think not having inverted fullbacks in football is a quirk of Thomas Frank's. I don't remember our club having inverted fullbacks before Postecoglou was manager.

Either Conte or Mourinho did it. I think Mourinho had weird stuff where we had one LB and a RWB or something lop sided like that
 
A part of your second from last paragraph reads like you think not having inverted fullbacks in football is a quirk of Thomas Frank's. I don't remember our club having inverted fullbacks before Postecoglou was manager.

Personally I don't see how it's any better for Porro to pass the ball forward coming inside, than passing it forward from the wing, If that's not the case then why not just put Porro in the midfield to start with, and play Spence at RB, then we can have Porro's passing from inside, and Spence using the wing.

I know none of this is going to happen and De Zerbi isn't going to risk changing much now, I'm just stating Porro can be Porro in the midfield if that's where we need him.

Frank didn’t avoid inverted full backs because he’s some football purist, he did it because his system was heavily wing oriented and very predictable in possession which then eventually got figured out. The reality is most top sides now use at least one inverted full back in build up and that’s not a Spurs specific thing, it’s basically just where modern football has gone.

As for Porro coming inside, we build in a 3-2-5 shape with VDV, Danso and Palhinha forming the back three, Porro and Bentancur operate as the pivots. That structure improves our ball progression and gets Porro involved centrally in more dangerous areas - that’s far more effective than pinning him wide where he mainly ends up spamming low percentage crosses and h also doesn’t really have the explosiveness or acceleration to consistently beat players on the outside like a natural winger anyway.
 
That's true, he did, but what I always understand "inverted fullbacks" to mean is where they tuck into midfield and will make under-lapping runs beyond the winger.

I think the Mourinho concept was that they pack into a midfield giving 4 or 5 CMs (depending on formation) and then chaos beyond that.

IIRC that was the point of Doherty
 
Frank didn’t avoid inverted full backs because he’s some football purist, he did it because his system was heavily wing oriented and very predictable in possession which then eventually got figured out. The reality is most top sides now use at least one inverted full back in build up and that’s not a Spurs specific thing, it’s basically just where modern football has gone.

As for Porro coming inside, we build in a 3-2-5 shape with VDV, Danso and Palhinha forming the back three, Porro and Bentancur operate as the pivots. That structure improves our ball progression and gets Porro involved centrally in more dangerous areas - that’s far more effective than pinning him wide where he mainly ends up spamming low percentage crosses and h also doesn’t really have the explosiveness or acceleration to consistently beat players on the outside like a natural winger anyway.
I don't get where the LB fits into that set up, it also seems like Muani is going to be coming deep because there's nobody positioned between our byline and Muani on the right flank.

Anyway lets suppose Porro gets the ball to one of our wide forwards, aren't we now just doing the Thomas Frank wing play?

Surely if the ball goes from Porro to Richarlison one of the two wide players is going to need to become available by moving closer to him and finding space, otherwise it's going to be Richarlison vs two CBs, and Gallagher is going to be tracked in midfield.

I've noticed quite a few of our goals have been from the ball ping ponging about in the opposition area where they failed to clear it, and it's eventually fallen to Palhinha, Gallagher, or whoever, there hasn't been many decisive goals where Porro has picked out a wide player from his inverted position, that wide player has done a defender, passed and the CF scores a smacker!!

So I'm unsure that the set up of the team is responsible for the recent uptick in form, rather it could be De Zerbi making the team motivated to chase everything down, even if it seems a lost cause.

I remember the England team with the Beckham long pass to Owen routine, it's what they set out to do, and they did it, if we're setting out to get Porro to feed the wide forwards and for them to feed the CF, we're not doing it.
 
Last edited:
I am certain he'll be gone by Xmas, irrespective of which league we are in.

He'll walk due to lack of club direction, player funding, etc, etc.
I don't really get that vibe tbh. Maybe he's just a better politician that I took him for, but he does seem genuinely impressed with the quality of the squad and the attitude of the players, given he thought he was walking into a smoking crater of a dressing room.

I think if he go down your prediction is far more likely. The weight of the situation and the size of the job might just drive him nuts, especially if we're forced to sell a bunch of players he would prefer to keep.

If we stay up I think he'll be backed enough for him to be happy. Bear in mind, at Brighton he had zero control and all his best players sold from under him and at Marseille they basically turn over half the squad every window. He's on mega-bucks at Spurs and will have some control so I think he'll see out a season at least before he starts getting itchy feet.
 
Modern day managers seem to be scared to take a leap of faith and change out a so called seasoned professional and give a young player a chance. Danny Rose vs Woolwich sometimes all it takes is a leap of faith and a bit of bravery to try and make something happen instead of hoping. All De Zerbi is doing at this point is hoping.
This is literally what Bournemouth do.

If we signed Rayan and Kroupi, they'd be in the same situation as Souza.
 
This is literally what Bournemouth do.

If we signed Rayan and Kroupi, they'd be in the same situation as Souza.
I dunno - Rayan's roughly same deal we did for Odobert in terms of age and fee. We've given Odobert plenty of minutes when he's been available.

The difference is Rayan looks the real deal and Odobert has the mentality of a field mouse.

The main issue is scouting imo. We've given plenty of young players minutes over the past 2 seasons but frankly none have been as good as Kroupi or Rayan. Even Bergvall, for all his talent, is still too flaky in possession for RDZ to trust him.
 
I dunno - Rayan's roughly same deal we did for Odobert in terms of age and fee. We've given Odobert plenty of minutes when he's been available.

The difference is Rayan looks the real deal and Odobert has the mentality of a field mouse.

The main issue is scouting imo. We've given plenty of young players minutes over the past 2 seasons but frankly none have been as good as Kroupi or Rayan. Even Bergvall, for all his talent, is still too flaky in possession for RDZ to trust him.

Bergvall would have been getting mins for Barca by now if he signed for them I reckon.

Our main issue is profiling and not actually having any sort of plan for our players when we sign them, if you look at the kind of young talent we've bought in they haven't really fit into what we are trying to do and they haven't been given any sort of consistent nurturing plan.

To be fair we have been a fekin mess, 4 coaches in 2 years, injuries galore etc...but I believe that if Brighton signed Gray for example he'd be balling out and we'd be pinning for him.

I do think that's it's probably easier for Bournemouth to scout and sign these kind of young players as well, they can sell them the dream of playing Prem football, nurture them and sell them onto a bigger club once they level up, I don't think we can promise that because there aren't so many places to go when you leave Tottenham unless you're truly exceptional.
 
I am certain he'll be gone by Xmas, irrespective of which league we are in.

He'll walk due to lack of club direction, player funding, etc, etc.
I don't think he stays if we go down personally. He's too big a name for the Championship. Which is a shame because if he stayed, I think we walk it and it'd be a lovely palette cleanser of a season.

He's saying all the right things cos that's what the players need to hear in a relegation fight. The messaging will change after Sunday.
 
This is literally what Bournemouth do.

If we signed Rayan and Kroupi, they'd be in the same situation as Souza.
There is something inherently wrong with this club and how it operates. From the very top right down to the players. It needs a complete internal overhaul. This club should not be in this position where with the money it invests we can't even put out a product of the youth academy that could do more in a season than what Tel or Muani or both combined have done. I saw a few youngsters play in Europa last season that did a fantastic job against Elfsborg or something like that and we've never seen them again.
 
I'm a bit worried that RDZ has continued with the same starting eleven for the last 3 games.

Win away to AV (who rested about half the team for the EL)
Draw at home to Leeds
Loss away to Chelsea.

I know this is the last game, but I'd like to see him bite the bullet and make some changes.

Maybe Porro instead of RKM and Spence at RB?
 
I'm a bit worried that RDZ has continued with the same starting eleven for the last 3 games.

Win away to AV (who rested about half the team for the EL)
Draw at home to Leeds
Loss away to Chelsea.

I know this is the last game, but I'd like to see him bite the bullet and make some changes.

Maybe Porro instead of RKM and Spence at RB?
I'd put Spence on the wing but yes totally agree. Other than the occasional bit of hold up, Muani might as well not be on the pitch.
 
Okay thanks, I don't remember that but if one of them did then so be it, but I don't remember it as a tactic specifically attached to Conte or Mourinho.
I don't think it was really, it was under Mourimho and just so happened that Aurier was on one side and much more adventurous relative to Ben Davies who was on the other flank.

Amongst some fans that somehow morphed into a Mourinho tactic of lopsided fullbacks.
 
I don't think it was really, it was under Mourimho and just so happened that Aurier was on one side and much more adventurous relative to Ben Davies who was on the other flank.

Amongst some fans that somehow morphed into a Mourinho tactic of lopsided fullbacks.
No, Jose spoke about wanting to build up with a three block at the back and Davies tucking in to be the third CB, whilst Aurier became a wingback. It was definitely a preconceived idea of his.
 
Back
Top